Thread: May 2008 (LHC) Particle Accelerator - Miracle or Catastrophe?

The entire particle physics community is counting down to May like it was their birthday, Christmas and the Second Coming of the Lord all wrapped up in a clutch of Superbowls. It's when the Large Hadron Collider comes online, but while most are hoping for data and praying for the bashful Higgs boson to finally show it's tiny little face, some Russian mathematicians are warning that we might get more than we bargained for. Specifically, time-travellers: futurenauts using our ultra-duper atomsmasher to punch a hole in causality and hop back from the future.

The idea dates back to Einstein's explanation that spacetime can be deformed by large energies or masses. Since the Large Hadron Collider is atwenty-six kilometer ring of superconducting magnets designed to do nothing but give a particle as large an energy as possible, that sounds like it could be an issue. Small deformations in spacetime (like Earth) give us the force of gravity, severe deformations give the cosmological trash compacting black holes, and an extreme case could cause a wormhole - a link between two points as spacetime folds over to touch itself (no sniggering).

When asked about this risk, CERN scientists just look at the sky - but they aren't daydreaming, they're providing a counter example. Even the most massive human experiment is a pale imitation of the galactic-sized particle accelerators that fire cosmic radiation at us daily, and with all that high-energy activity in the sky if techno-mutants from the year Q4099 did want to invade they wouldn't have to hang around supercooled Genevese caverns to do it.

The Russians aren't the first to raise concerns over the "Let's bang these things together REALLY HARD" school of research - Dr Walter Wagner has been campaigning for years to stall the LHC program until someone can convince him that turning it on won't detonate the universe. He accuses the scientists involved of downplaying the risks, using his own kind of maths to "show" a 10% chance of everything ever going kablooey. The basic formula is "it's very unlikely BUT it would kill EVERYTHING so that multiplies up the risk", which might sound reasonable, but by the same argument I could say "Nobody eat apples in case one contains a rare virus that could RENDER EVERYONE IN THE WORLD STERILE". He even has a donation site to raise money for legal action, but considering he's going up against a five billion dollar twenty-country co-operative project, his chances of winning are even unlikelier than his fears.

(actual image of the LHC)

article taken from: http://dad2059.wordpress.com/2008/02...d-time-travel/

Thoughts?

Ahhh! We're all gonna DAI!
No- seriously. I read something about a time-travel machine been invented on the radio. But it all sounds pretty sci-fi doesn't it?

I've been anxious to see what the Hadron could do, ever since I read about it last year.

I say bring it on.

I can't wait to see this, it could really be an advancement for our understanding.

I really cannot wait for this thing to go online. Its an opportunity to learn more about ourselves and where we came from.

Yeah i never heard of this before but it all sounds sci-fi. Never thought i would see the day we could petentially destroy the universe. 22km long thats friggen crazy. They should sell tickets to this, if they did they would probally break even.

Originally Posted by Riot Maker

Yeah i never heard of this before but it all sounds sci-fi. Never thought i would see the day we could petentially destroy the universe. 22km long thats friggen crazy. They should sell tickets to this, if they did they would probally break even.

No, its real, not science fiction. With it recreating the first moments of the big bang they may be able to find out information on the origins of the universe.

Interesting stuff if you ask me, its a risk well worth taking if you ask me, the dangers are very very VERY slim.

Originally Posted by Lucid Seeker

I can't wait to see this, it could really be an advancement for our understanding.

I really cannot wait for this thing to go online. Its an opportunity to learn more about ourselves and where we came from.

I'd really have to disagree here, we live in a world in which people in monkey suits on TV tell people how to think, false religious prophets become wealthy from our foolishness, Politicians are allowed to lie, cheat, and steal from the very same people they are supposed to represent, and the Justice System is so flawed that the true criminals (most of which are politicians) are allowed to walk free. We can never learn the secrets of the Universe, or how we were created until each and every one of us can finally understand that we are all the same despite our cultural differences, and the melanin of our skin.

Originally Posted by juroara

scientists can't even find a cure for aids, yet they think they can control time



scientists don't even know everything about the bottom of the sea, yet they are so sure their theory of the big bang is 100% accurate? ? ? I mean the bottom of the sea is here and now and the big bang was when? yet they act like they can tell it to us like they were there

scientists are vain and retarded. who pushes a red button without knowing what it really does?

twelve year olds on an ego trip

To me Scientists are controlled somehow. To wield all of that knowledge but create weapons, or forms of entertainment is quite sad. I mean the technological advances we've been through over the past decades seem to only be used against us, because we still have no Aids Vaccine, no Cure for Cancer, our water is being poisoned from major pollution, and we still don't get it, that they don't care about us, they just want us to be entertained. It's like on Metal Gear Solid/MGS3 where the Villains would have the Scientists doing all of the work, building those weapons for them, just so they could boast about having the biggest, strongest weapon...or is that Reality?





To make a long story short, (and I know it might sound corny and cliche but,) until we can learn to love, communicate, and understand one another, then we will never know what it is to be a Human.

That's retarded.

If you are alive and you are human then you are experiencing being human.

Originally Posted by Lucid Seeker

I can't wait to see this, it could really be an advancement for our understanding.

I really cannot wait for this thing to go online. Its an opportunity to learn more about ourselves and where we came from.

my thoughts exactly

i wish they would hurry up and get it working already lol

I heard about this.. How the hell is this good news? He is fucking around with the fabric of space-time.. I doubt he can do it anyway. We are not ready for time travel. We know NOTHING about it.

Hey it doesn't matter if a make a black hole! At least I'll make a scientific discovery!!

Originally Posted by Dreamworld

We know NOTHING about it

We would learn alot more about it if we actually performed it, then not do anything at all and read theroies by scientists who claim to know what they are talking about.

I dont really get the article though, did the time travel work? Are we recieving stuff from the future?

I heard about this.. How the hell is this good news? He is fucking around with the fabric of space-time.

Um... who is?

I doubt he can do it anyway. We are not ready for time travel. We know NOTHING about it.

...this isn't a time machine, you dolt. And we know everything about the spacetime fabric ever since Albert Einstein described it flawlessly.

Hey it doesn't matter if a make a black hole! At least I'll make a scientific discovery!!

Have you ever considered the possibility that you know fuck all about physics but the people making the particle collider do??

Tell me why a particle collider should create a large black whole. Go on, if you're such an expert.

Or you could just be quiet. It doesn't matter how many people with no knowledge of physics say 'ooh it might make a black whole!!' or 'ooh it might reverse gravity!!' or 'ooh it might turn everybody into blocks of iron!!', nobody is going to listen to you.

How can a stream of protons create a black hole?

Originally Posted by C911

We would learn alot more about it if we actually performed it, then not do anything at all and read theroies by scientists who claim to know what they are talking about.

I dont really get the article though, did the time travel work? Are we recieving stuff from the future?

I can give less of a shit about this discovery. Especially if they are making a tear in space time. Its just retarded. The worlds fine without it. A mini black hole isn't going to feed a country. It might just eat them. You can't hide in your closet because a black hole would suck the whole world, and solar system after time.

Mini Black holes?

Wtf.

Originally Posted by Dreamworld

I can give less of a shit about this discovery. Especially if they are making a tear in space time. Its just retarded. The worlds fine without it. A mini black whole isn't going to feed a country. It might just eat them. You can't hide in your closet because a black hole would suck the whole world, and solar system after time.

They aren't making a tear. They are just smashing two particles together. If something goes wrong, we won't know it. So it's best to press the buttons!

I'm currently reading a science fiction book, also about travel in time and space.

But, people actually believe in that in contexts other that science fiction books?

*wormholes, if it was possible to create them just by having a high density of energy in a location in space (which sounds highly implausible to me, but i do not know enough to counter it), would only ever last a fraction of a second due to quantum effects. To hold a wormhole open, which is of a practical size, would require stupendous amounts of energy.
*wormholes allow travel in time only indirectly - they connect two areas of space, and to allow time travel, these two areas, or the two "openings" of a wormhole would have to be in relativistic motion. And never would travel to a time before the wormhole was created be possible.
*no one has ever proved wormholes. They are so far only a theoretical interest. We know almost nothing about spacetime itself.
*The amount of energy density provided by the LHC is not that extraordinary. Naturally existing particles (detected on Earth and called "cosmic rays") have sometimes very high energies. Some naturally existing cosmic ray particles have been found to be around 100 million times the energy density that the LHC will produce. These are ofcourse very unstable, and therefore very rare - but nevertheless existent.

I do not know enough to conclusively counter the possibility of a wormhole connecting us to some distant planet with a more advanced civilization (but not in the future), but anyways this discussion feels like wondering whether "Harry Potter" really could do magic.

Originally Posted by george

I'm currently reading a science fiction book, also about travel in time and space.

But, people actually believe in that in contexts other that science fiction books?

sounds like a interesting book, whats it called? I am not entirely sure what this has to do with LHC but still sounds interesting

They're fantasy books with science fiction in them, by Madeleine L'Engle, "A wrinkle in time", and "A wind in the door".. They're enjoyable, but nothing serious.

Originally Posted by george

They're fantasy books with science fiction in them, by Madeleine L'Engle, "A wrinkle in time", and "A wind in the door".. They're enjoyable, but nothing serious.

nice one, I like that stuff so it could be a good read, would you recommend them?

I would, they're easy reading. It is more like fantasy-science fiction for children though, so don't have too high expectations

Can anyone say, Half-Life?

That's true, there's no evidence to say that the particle accelerator couldn't tear a rift in the fabric of spacetime into an alternate universe populated by dangerous aliens life forms, whilst also allowing a facist alien megaempire to exploit the rift by pouring through it in their flying battleships before establishing a terrible totalitarian rule over the human race.

Good thinking.

Well, time to see what happens... *kisses ass*

Nice...

At the LHC, repaired magnets are powered up for the first time