Thread: ABC's John Miller Interviews Osama Bin Laden (1998)

Yes, I have read the whole thing. You left out the part where he goes into how we are evil because we allow alcohol, stock trade, and a government that is not Koran oriented and how he will not call off his war with us until we change all of it. What about it? Do you support his generalized prejudice against Americans and call for Muslims to kill anybody who is American or something? I challenge you to say something against it.

Do children pay taxes? Do all American tax payers agree with what the government does with tax money? What are you trying to say?

When I say "communicate", I am talking about the mass media, the internet, public forums, etc. I was not limiting the principle to a few powerful Americans. Usama Bin Laden has been the worst advertisement for Islam to the United States there has ever been. What a dumb ass.

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

Yes, I have read the whole thing. You left out the part where he goes into how we are evil because we allow alcohol, stock trade, and a government that is not Koran oriented and how he will not call off his war with us until we change all of it. What about it? Do you support his generalized prejudice against Americans and call for Muslims to kill anybody who is American or something? I challenge you to say something against it.

Do children pay taxes? Do all American tax payers agree with what the government does with tax money? What are you trying to say?

When I say "communicate", I am talking about the mass media, the internet, public forums, etc. I was not limiting the principle to a few powerful Americans. Usama Bin Laden has been the worst advertisement for Islam to the United States there has ever been. What a dumb ass.

Those pety things about alchohol/gambling and what not pale compared to the grievances over the last 50 years they have and they are after USA for those grivences i gave above, not for you guys drinking alchohol.

As for the Media i beleive Osama Bin Laden issued Fatwas in 1996 and 1998 which showed his intentions. Thats how he reached out i guess plus he used his former high status iin Saudi society to try and get the Saudi King to not bring USA troops to KSA and if that didn't work given his high status at the time then obviously nothing else would.

I don't support Al Qaeda or their views about civilans being legitimate targets...I stated that a few times before, im just giving showing Al Qaeda's views in greater detail so that people can get it from the horses mouth so to speak....

Originally Posted by dragonoverlord

Those pety things about alchohol/gambling and what not pale compared to the grievances over the last 50 years they have and they are after USA for those grivences i gave above, not for you guys drinking alchohol.

The letter mentions those things and others and says that if we do not meet ALL of the demands of the letter, the fuckface will not call off his war. It says it. Read it again.

If you fail to respond to all these conditions, then prepare for fight with the Islamic Nation.

We have debated the "grievances" you talk about. Our presence in the Middle East has been justified, and Bin Laden is an evil religious fanatic for wanting to kill "all" Americans over it and the other bizarre bullshit he talks about. Israel is a democracy, and protecting democracy was a very important objective during the Cold War. It is the moral thing to do any way, and it is necessary to do it now. Our aid to and trade with Iraq was never an obligation, so we did not "starve" Iraqis. At some point, you need to admit how religiously nutty that wack job Bin Laden is. Do you admit it?

I asked you a question in another thread, and you did not answer it. Why are you so obsessively supportive of Islam? You are a French Canadian who claims to not be a Muslim, so what exactly is your deal with all of this? You are not just obsessed with Islamic causes. You are obsessed with acting as some kind of internet attorney for Islamofascists. I really don't get this. You put so much energy into taking up for the most insanely evil people in the world. Why?

Originally Posted by dragonoverlord

As for the Media i beleive Osama Bin Laden issued Fatwas in 1996 and 1998 which showed his intentions. Thats how he reached out i guess plus he used his former high status iin Saudi society to try and get the Saudi King to not bring USA troops to KSA and if that didn't work given his high status at the time then obviously nothing else would.

I don't support Al Qaeda or their views about civilans being legitimate targets...I stated that a few times before, im just giving showing Al Qaeda's views in greater detail so that people can get it from the horses mouth so to speak....

Then you should have posted the entire letter.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2002/nov/24/theobserver

Since you claim you do not support Bin Laden's sick propaganda, let's see you speak out against it as passionately as you have spoken against the United States. I would like to see the full scope of how much you really are against Al Qaeda. Go off against them, if you really detest what they do. Show us the full extent of your passion.

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

The letter mentions those things and others and says that if we do not meet ALL of the demands of the letter, the fuckface will not call off his war. It says it. Read it again.

If you fail to respond to all these conditions, then prepare for fight with the Islamic Nation.

We have debated the "grievances" you talk about. Our presence in the Middle East has been justified, and Bin Laden is an evil religious fanatic for wanting to kill "all" Americans over it and the other bizarre bullshit he talks about. Israel is a democracy, and protecting democracy was a very important objective during the Cold War. It is the moral thing to do any way, and it is necessary to do it now. Our aid to and trade with Iraq was never an obligation, so we did not "starve" Iraqis. At some point, you need to admit how religiously nutty that wack job Bin Laden is. Do you admit it?

I think the "conditions" are just a tought stance he putts on for his followers, i beleive he could live without those conditions on alchohol, and usury or whatever being met, the ones i posted are the ones i view as non neogitable. the ones concerning lifestyle and stuff is negotiable in my view.

As for the American Prescence in Saudi Arabia i view that as jusitified. On the other hand the Invasion of Iraq...NO. I didn't think there was any palce for the USA to invade without NATO or UN sanctioning it. I think there is a spot in the UN charter that says no country can agress onother country without UN approvoal unless the countries defense is in dire threat. The USA was not in dire threat of Iraq at all, hardly any threat and the threat presented by the Bush Administration as justification was greatly exagerated or fabricated. Watch fareinheight 9/11...You can get it on youtube,

As for "Israel" what type of democracy is it? Before israel was formed there was an arab majority. why did the british not ask the christian and muslim majority if they wanted the land under their feet carved up for eastern european jewish immigrants? What type of democracy is that? Israel is a democracy created for jews and not for Palestinians who are for the most part held up in open air prisons (West Bank and Gaza). israel must be wiped of the map and the land be restored to their rightful owners. Israel is a vestige of Colonialsm.

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

]I asked you a question in another thread, and you did not answer it. Why are you so obsessively supportive of Islam? You are a French Canadian who claims to not be a Muslim, so what exactly is your deal with all of this? You are not just obsessed with Islamic causes. You are obsessed with acting as some kind of internet attorney for Islamofascists. I really don't get this. You put so much energy into taking up for the most insanely evil people in the world. Why?

First im not french canadain i hold multiple citizenships including canadian and french citizenships. If you say im French canadain then it implies that im Quebecois which im not. Secound why i support the people who i support is my own that i don't want to divolge but it has nothing to do with relegion at all.

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

Then you should have posted the entire letter.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2002/nov/24/theobserver

Since you claim you do not support Bin Laden's sick propaganda, let's see you speak out against it as passionately as you have spoken against the United States. I would like to see the full scope of how much you really are against Al Qaeda. Go off against them, if you really detest what they do. Show us the full extent of your passion.

Al Qaeda has bombed targets in Europe (madrid) and in Mooroco and Algeria and personally this is why im not fan of Al Qaeda since they killed Europeans and Arabs. They killed innocent europeans and arabs and thats reason enough for me to be apposed to them and thats why i personally dont like Al Qaeda for those sensless attacks and i honestly can't support people who did those attacks.

Originally Posted by dragonoverlord

I think the "conditions" are just a tought stance he putts on for his followers, i beleive he could live without those conditions on alchohol, and usury or whatever being met, the ones i posted are the ones i view as non neogitable. the ones concerning lifestyle and stuff is negotiable in my view.

Where do you get that? His letter says otherwise. The passionate speeches of Al Qaeda and other evil Islamofascist scum say otherwise. They overwhelmingly despise our lifestyle and the influence it has on the world.

Originally Posted by dragonoverlord

As for the American Prescence in Saudi Arabia i view that as jusitified. On the other hand the Invasion of Iraq...NO. I didn't think there was any palce for the USA to invade without NATO or UN sanctioning it. I think there is a spot in the UN charter that says no country can agress onother country without UN approvoal unless the countries defense is in dire threat. The USA was not in dire threat of Iraq at all, hardly any threat and the threat presented by the Bush Administration as justification was greatly exagerated or fabricated. Watch fareinheight 9/11...You can get it on youtube,

How is a genocidal terrorist dicatatorship that funds terrorist groups, provides financial incentives for suicide bombers, has engaged in WMD terrorism, and can get WMD's into the hands of terrorists who join them in their maniacal hatred for the U.S. not a threat?

The WMD stockpile intelligence came from our CIA, our Senate, our previous administration, five other governments, and officials at the U.N. The claim that it was a fabrication is a fabrication.

Originally Posted by dragonoverlord

As for "Israel" what type of democracy is it? Before israel was formed there was an arab majority. why did the british not ask the christian and muslim majority if they wanted the land under their feet carved up for eastern european jewish immigrants? What type of democracy is that? Israel is a democracy created for jews and not for Palestinians who are for the most part held up in open air prisons (West Bank and Gaza). israel must be wiped of the map and the land be restored to their rightful owners. Israel is a vestige of Colonialsm.

Wiped off the map? Nice one. Israel is a democracy where the people run the government and where Muslims are allowed to live. It is true that Muslims do not quite have all of the same rights as Jews there, but I think they should. People should be judged individually, and Israel should have a nonsecular government that gives equal rights to all of its citizens. I don't at all buy into the idea that people's ancestry should be held against them. It is a profoundly absurd and unfair concept. Every person is an individual. Treating a race or a religion as one big team with a single mind is flat out illogical and is the root of most of tragedy in the world.

Originally Posted by dragonoverlord

IFirst im not french canadain i hold multiple citizenships including canadian and french citizenships. If you say im French canadain then it implies that im Quebecois which im not. Secound why i support the people who i support is my own that i don't want to divolge but it has nothing to do with relegion at all.

Didn't you say you were born in France and now live in Canada? That makes you French Canadian just like a person born in Mexico who lives in the U.S. is Mexican American. Any way, it is very odd that you have such an obsession with taking up for illogical cave men who do not have consciences and are the sorriest pieces of shit on Earth. And you don't want to say why? Are you working for a terrorist organization or something? Whatever it is, don't let that scum suck you in and make you their toy moron. They don't care whether you live or die. That is how they feel about you.

Originally Posted by dragonoverlord

Al Qaeda has bombed targets in Europe (madrid) and in Mooroco and Algeria and personally this is why im not fan of Al Qaeda since they killed Europeans and Arabs. They killed innocent europeans and arabs and thats reason enough for me to be apposed to them and thats why i personally dont like Al Qaeda for those sensless attacks and i honestly can't support people who did those attacks.

I don't see much passion in saying you "personally don't like Al Qaeda". Also, you have no problem with them for targetting innocent Americans, huh? Please explain why you have nothing to say about the fact that the Americans they killed included children and other Americans who do not support American involvement in the Middle East. Tell me why that does not bother you. What about the fact that what they did here led to the overthrow of the Hussein regime and the Taliban, a many fold increase in American prejudice toward Muslims, far less American sympathy for the Palestinian cause, and the fact that virtually the only association Americans make with Islam is now terrorism? Do you have a problem with the fact that they brought about all of that? If they had gone about things the way civilized people do, they could have done a lot to win a large percentage of Americans over to their religion and its causes. But look at what came about instead.

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

Where do you get that? His letter says otherwise. The passionate speeches of Al Qaeda and other evil Islamofascist scum say otherwise. They overwhelmingly despise our lifestyle and the influence it has on the world.

They despise it sure but im sure they would rather comprise on the other issues and have the ones regaarding life style un-met.

Originally Posted by UniversalMind

How is a genocidal terrorist dicatatorship that funds terrorist groups, provides financial incentives for suicide bombers, has engaged in WMD terrorism, and can get WMD's into the hands of terrorists who join them in their maniacal hatred for the U.S. not a threat?

They were not an imminet threat to the USA at all, there was no evidence to assume they were aiming a missle or otherwise at an American city or that they had any connection to Al Qaeda.

I beleive at the height of the genocide of the Kurds and at the height of Iraq possessing chemical weapons, Iraq had rather good relations with the USA and that Saddam was regarded a friend of the west. Prey tell why your country did not use it's good releationship with Iraq to aleviate the situation of the Kurds?

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

The WMD stockpile intelligence came from our CIA, our Senate, our previous administration, five other governments, and officials at the U.N. The claim that it was a fabrication is a fabrication.

Did America find the Weapons of mass destruction in Iraq at all? Did the USA find the "Yellow cake Uranium" that the bush administration was talking about? Remember they were talkinga bout how they got it from Nigeria or something....

I think in the 90's Iraq apparently had chemical weapons but they only had a shelf life of several months.

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

Wiped off the map? Nice one. Israel is a democracy where the people run the government and where Muslims are allowed to live. It is true that Muslims do not quite have all of the same rights as Jews there, but I think they should. People should be judged individually, and Israel should have a nonsecular government that gives equal rights to all of its citizens. I don't at all buy into the idea that people's ancestry should be held against them. It is a profoundly absurd and unfair concept. Every person is an individual. Treating a race or a religion as one big team with a single mind is flat out illogical and is the root of most of tragedy in the world.

Muslims should not have the same rights as jews???? Why??? are they inferior? Why should israel have a non secular government?

Listen all i know is in 1948 when israel was carved up Arabs were the majority on that piece of land set aside for a jewish state. This was a horrible error on the part of Britain and the UN and it was must be fixed. The land which arabs were a majority was usurped fromt hem and you say those who are still there should not have rights....why??

The israelies are a group which don't and didn't respect the local population when they immigrated to the middle east. They might aswell be a single mind with a single intent, they have no right to be there, the american gov research i posted forsaw that artifically creating a jewish state for eastern european immigrants could only be achieved by force and would not be well met by the local population. Israel is a mistake that needs to be fixed in my opinion. As far as im concerned every rocket, suicide bomber they get is well earned.

the eastern european jews in palestine are just like the dutch who went to south africa at the end of Apartheid. At the end of Apatheid they AfriKKKaners demanded a white only state when they realised their strangehold over SA was at an end. in 1948 the immigrants to palestine demanded their own country on majority arab land because they dont like the idea of having to share a state with arabs.

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

Didn't you say you were born in France and now live in Canada? That makes you French Canadian just like a person born in Mexico who lives in the U.S. is Mexican American. Any way, it is very odd that you have such an obsession with taking up for illogical cave men who do not have consciences and are the sorriest pieces of shit on Earth. And you don't want to say why? Are you working for a terrorist organization or something? Whatever it is, don't let that scum suck you in and make you their toy moron. They don't care whether you live or die. That is how they feel about you.

Im really tired of you insinuating that im a terrorist UM. Im not affilated nor have i ever been with a terrorist organazation. You simply asked why i have the views that i do and i said i wish to keep that to myself, basically what i mean is thats none of your business.

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

I don't see much passion in saying you "personally don't like Al Qaeda". Also, you have no problem with them for targetting innocent Americans, huh? Please explain why you have nothing to say about the fact that the Americans they killed included children and other Americans who do not support American involvement in the Middle East. Tell me why that does not bother you. What about the fact that what they did here led to the overthrow of the Hussein regime and the Taliban, a many fold increase in American prejudice toward Muslims, far less American sympathy for the Palestinian cause, and the fact that virtually the only association Americans make with Islam is now terrorism? Do you have a problem with the fact that they brought about all of that? If they had gone about things the way civilized people do, they could have done a lot to win a large percentage of Americans over to their religion and its causes. But look at what came about instead.

I said before i support Hezbollah but at the same time Hezbollah does something i dont like namely they attack jews internationally as revenge against Israel. They bombed a jewish cultural center once in Argentina. Although i don't like what they did thats not an issue for me cause im neither jewish nor argentinan. But if hezbollah was to attack Belgium then i couldn't support them anymore becuase that would be an attack on my country. As far as im concerned in matter to Al Qaeda im not an american so what they do to americans/america is not an issue for me although its a shame as is all loss of human life... Its what they do to moderate arab countries and european countries thats what makes me appose them.

Its a real shame what Al Qaeda did on 9/11 and it would be great if it could have been avoided because the attack istelf and the rammifications of those attacks have cost many many lives....Loss of human life is terrible initself

Originally Posted by dragonoverlord

They despise it sure but im sure they would rather comprise on the other issues and have the ones regaarding life style un-met.

That is an assumption you can't back up with anything. Their hateful speech says what it says, and Bin Laden's letter says what it says.

Originally Posted by dragonoverlord

They were not an imminet threat to the USA at all, there was no evidence to assume they were aiming a missle or otherwise at an American city or that they had any connection to Al Qaeda.

They were a threat for the reasons I stated. I never said they had missiles pointed at us. I said they could have gotten their weapons into the hands of a terrorist group, whether one they had a history of supporting or not. They and Al Qaeda had a common enemy, which was us. The fact that the Hussein regime was having meetings with Al Qaeda and harboring Zarqawi was a chilling bonus.

Originally Posted by dragonoverlord

I beleive at the height of the genocide of the Kurds and at the height of Iraq possessing chemical weapons, Iraq had rather good relations with the USA and that Saddam was regarded a friend of the west. Prey tell why your country did not use it's good releationship with Iraq to aleviate the situation of the Kurds?

They were despicable, but they were working with us against Iran. We became their enemy when we drove them out of Kuwait after they took it over. Then 9/11 inspired the Bush Doctrine, and the Hussein regime fell under it. They also violated our ceasefire on terrorism grounds for 12 years. I have no idea what we could have done for the Kurds other than overthrow their sick government.

Originally Posted by dragonoverlord

Did America find the Weapons of mass destruction in Iraq at all? Did the USA find the "Yellow cake Uranium" that the bush administration was talking about? Remember they were talkinga bout how they got it from Nigeria or something....

They have not been found, but that does not prove they didn't exist. Jimmy Hoffa has not been found either. Neither has Bin Laden. Did they ever exist?

Originally Posted by dragonoverlord

I think in the 90's Iraq apparently had chemical weapons but they only had a shelf life of several months.

Might they have ever had them again? They were developing nuclear weapons until Israel destroyed their factory. They had a history of working on WMD's and using them for terrorism. Is a suicide bomber government with WMD propensity a threat? Of course it is.

Originally Posted by dragonoverlord

Muslims should not have the same rights as jews???? Why??? are they inferior? Why should israel have a non secular government?

You need to reread what I wrote. I have told you at least fifteen times that a democracy where all religions are treated equally is the only legitimate form of goverment. It is you who disagrees with that.

Originally Posted by dragonoverlord

Listen all i know is in 1948 when israel was carved up Arabs were the majority on that piece of land set aside for a jewish state. This was a horrible error on the part of Britain and the UN and it was must be fixed. The land which arabs were a majority was usurped fromt hem and you say those who are still there should not have rights....why??

Again, read what I actually wrote. I don't know how many times I need to tell you that Israel should be a democracy where all relgions are treated equally and citizens are treated as individuals. That is the only fair way of doing things, and you cannot right the past by repeating a different version of the same wrong.

Originally Posted by dragonoverlord

The israelies are a group which don't and didn't respect the local population when they immigrated to the middle east. They might aswell be a single mind with a single intent, they have no right to be there, the american gov research i posted forsaw that artifically creating a jewish state for eastern european immigrants could only be achieved by force and would not be well met by the local population. Israel is a mistake that needs to be fixed in my opinion. As far as im concerned every rocket, suicide bomber they get is well earned.

What did the children who were born in Israel do to deserve the awful things you wish on them? What did the adults who were born in Israel do to deserve it? (I have asked you those two questions many times, and you have yet to answer them. I really want to know what you have to say to them.) They are not a single mind. That is where you are dangerously wrong. As long as people in the Middle East see things the way you are preaching them, the Middle East is going to be a clusterfuck of mindless tragedy. The only solutions are democracy of equality and recognition of individuality. The absence of those will result in nothing but a perpetual nightmare.

Originally Posted by dragonoverlord

the eastern european jews in palestine are just like the dutch who went to south africa at the end of Apartheid. At the end of Apatheid they AfriKKKaners demanded a white only state when they realised their strangehold over SA was at an end. in 1948 the immigrants to palestine demanded their own country on majority arab land because they dont like the idea of having to share a state with arabs.

The 1948 immigrants and the vast majority of the people who live there now ARE NOT THE SAME PEOPLE!!!!!!!!!! Your deeply rooted prejudice is giving you the illusion that they are. They are not!

Originally Posted by dragonoverlord

Im really tired of you insinuating that im a terrorist UM. Im not affilated nor have i ever been with a terrorist organazation. You simply asked why i have the views that i do and i said i wish to keep that to myself, basically what i mean is thats none of your business.

What that basically means is that you have something to hide. You think two year olds who live in Israel deserve to be blown up while riding a bus just because they belong to a large group you hate, and you think that even though you were never able to tell me specifically what good results from it. With all due respect, that is the mentality of a terrorist. I am not out of line in asking if you are a member of a terrorist organization when that is what you preach.

Originally Posted by dragonoverlord

I said before i support Hezbollah but at the same time Hezbollah does something i dont like namely they attack jews internationally as revenge against Israel. They bombed a jewish cultural center once in Argentina. Although i don't like what they did thats not an issue for me cause im neither jewish nor argentinan. But if hezbollah was to attack Belgium then i couldn't support them anymore becuase that would be an attack on my country. As far as im concerned in matter to Al Qaeda im not an american so what they do to americans/america is not an issue for me although its a shame as is all loss of human life... Its what they do to moderate arab countries and european countries thats what makes me appose them.

Well at least you call the 9/11 attacks "a shame", but you do support what Hezbollah does to innocent Israelis. The fact of the matter is that you support a terrorist group that targets the innocent out of pure "get even with THEM" even though nothing good results from it.

Originally Posted by dragonoverlord

Its a real shame what Al Qaeda did on 9/11 and it would be great if it could have been avoided because the attack istelf and the rammifications of those attacks have cost many many lives....Loss of human life is terrible initself

It's good to see you saying that. I just wish you would say it about innocent Israeli individuals who were born in Israel, who never stole anything, and who in many cases don't even understand enough about life to know that there is a conflict.

Israel needs to be a country where Muslims and Jews can live together equally and share what they both think is the "holy land". Any Israeli arrangement other than that is guaranteed disaster.