Thread: ABC's John Miller Interviews Osama Bin Laden (1998)

Originally Posted by RedfishBluefish

Just like the American claim to their land is secondary and the Indians hold the true right to the land, just like Australian white people and aboriginals, just like Norwegians and vikings, and just like the Arabs and whoever lived "at their homeland" before, right?

Let me continue that for you. You metnioned Norwegians. The natives of Scandanavia are the Laplanders i beleive. Present day Scandanavia is populated by people who are descended from North Germanic tribes i beleive. They came over to Scandanavia something like 1000 years ago if im not mistaken.

You must be refering to the Arab conquest of North Africa in your mention of Arabs. You might be well aware that the Natives of North Africa are the Berber People.

In Mooroco let say there are two groups of people. There are those who call themselves Berbers and there are those who call themselves Arabs.

They did some genetic tests of a set of people. One set who refered to themselves as Arabs and onother set who identified as Berbers. They found that there was basically no difference between the genetics or whatever of the Berbers and the Arabs.

The study went on to conclude that the Arab conquest of North Africa was mostly CULTURAL and not RACIAL. That is to say the Arab conquesters were absorbed in large part into the Berber population and the change in
North Africa was Cultural not racial. Mooroco itself is heavily mixed between berbers and Arabs. I saw some statistics that claimed that 3/4 of Moorocains are Berbers or have Berber blood.

I beleive the findings in the study is true of Algeria and Tunisia. I have a feeling this is not true of Libya on the other hand judging by their more "pure" standard of Arabic. In this sense Pure means closer to Middle Eastern Arabic.

Several thousand years ago in what is now israel/Palestine the jews were exiled out of the middle east and wandering
Nomadic Arab tribes (just like Native american tribes) found their way into the land that was once mostly populated by jews and it was mostly empty of jews because of the Exile forced onto them by the romans many many moons prior. that is the origin of todays Arabs population in the area.

An Argument made by zionists is that the jews who live in europe should be able to take Palestine away from the Palestinians because several thousand years ago jews populated the region.

Interestingly enough I think the jews who came to the region in the first place were not natives of the place either. the real natives were the Caanites. The Hebrews came to the region themselves as a Wandering Tribe i beleive and then they ransacked the Caanites and eventually mixed with them just like the Arabs in North Africa i mentioned. And Eventually the Hebrews themselves were exiled a few thousand years ago from the area.

Today the People of Lebanon and Palestine have the blood of Caanites in them and also there is a signicant amount of Lebanese people who have Crusader Descandants(from the Crusades of dark ages)

You mention "real natives". However, assuming evolution to be correct, all humanity has one common ancestor, and one "original homeland". All other land was colonized indirectly from there.

What I'm trying to get at, really, is that the land belongs to no one group. If someone tries to force you out of your home, sure, you should resist them - but it's wrong to claim certain pieces of land just because one's ancestors lived there.

Or maybe I'm wrong. I don't actually know a lot about the whole Israel/Palestine thing. Maybe we need to keep better track of one's possessions: Like if Bob steals something from Alice and gives it to his children without telling them he stole it, then it's passed down through the generations, but it still really belongs to Alice('s descendants) right?

But anyway try not to group people together too much - what of someone with both Jewish and Palestinian ancestors?

Originally Posted by RedfishBluefish

You mention "real natives". However, assuming evolution to be correct, all humanity has one common ancestor, and one "original homeland". All other land was colonized indirectly from there.

What I'm trying to get at, really, is that the land belongs to no one group. If someone tries to force you out of your home, sure, you should resist them - but it's wrong to claim certain pieces of land just because one's ancestors lived there.

Or maybe I'm wrong. I don't actually know a lot about the whole Israel/Palestine thing. Maybe we need to keep better track of one's possessions: Like if Bob steals something from Alice and gives it to his children without telling them he stole it, then it's passed down through the generations, but it still really belongs to Alice('s descendants) right?

But anyway try not to group people together too much - what of someone with both Jewish and Palestinian ancestors?

"native" is only a relative term i suppose. IN the region of Palestine/Israel who are the real natives? The land switched hands so many times. Caanites, Hebrews,Bedouins, Assyrians, Romans, arabs,Turks(ottomans),Crusaders, British, and now modern day israel.

So many groups have called the area home over its history its true in a sense there are no natives.

But is it not reasonable to expect that in the 1800's when jews started to immigrate that they at the very LEAST respect the Estabilished Population? Would that not have been to much to ask? In 1948, less then a generation later when they are still for the most part a minority they deman a jewish state carved under arab majority land.

That was the ultimate act of disrespect and indifference towards the estabilished arab majority that is in my opinion inexcusable.

Answering your other question there are indeed people of Palestinian and Jewish Heritage. They are Palestinian Jews. They have everyright to Palestine as do Palestinian Muslims and Christians.

The Palestinian jews have been in Palestine for over a 1000 years. Now i make a distinction between Palestinian jews and Ashakanazie jews(I know this is random but the guy in my avatar is an Ashakanazie jew actually). the Ashekanazie jews are those immigrated from Europe to Palestine, They started to immigrate in large numbers starting in the late 1800's.

The Palestinian Jews are so called Natives. They are a very well estabilished population and got along well with the Arabs over the centuries unfortunately Zionism hurt Palestinian arab and Palestinian jew relations very badly and tor the two groups apart whom got along well over the many centuries of co-habitation.

Zionism (european immigration) was the straw that broke the camels back.