Thread: McCain aide: "another terrorist attack would be advantage"

I disagree, but I respect your views, I just think its insane to say our economy is the best in the world. I think ANY nation with nukes is a threat to the world, thats why nuclear weapons should be banned internationally and the whole world should join in on a nuclear crackdown, eliminate every bomb ever made, and destroy any information on HOW to make one.

The UN needs to set aside a special Nuclear disposal or some kind of organization, to go country to country ensuring there are no nukes being made, or made.

I Don't think its america's job to fix the worlds fuck ups all the time, the world should fix its own problems. If you have a flood 8,000 miles from us, why the hell should we fix it?

Its nice to send supplies and stuff but, were bending over backwards for the whole world, and our country can't handle it anymore financially, its just insane to continue on this global policeman path.

Originally Posted by guerilla

I disagree, but I respect your views, I just think its insane to say our economy is the best in the world. I think ANY nation with nukes is a threat to the world, thats why nuclear weapons should be banned internationally and the whole world should join in on a nuclear crackdown, eliminate every bomb ever made, and destroy any information on HOW to make one.

The UN needs to set aside a special Nuclear disposal or some kind of organization, to go country to country ensuring there are no nukes being made, or made.

I Don't think its america's job to fix the worlds fuck ups all the time, the world should fix its own problems. If you have a flood 8,000 miles from us, why the hell should we fix it?

Its nice to send supplies and stuff but, were bending over backwards for the whole world, and our country can't handle it anymore financially, its just insane to continue on this global policeman path.

I see your point, but Iran trains suicide bomber terrorist organizations who want to kill us for crazy religious nut reasons. They are not the Soviet Union. They are not thinking, "Well, both sides want to live, so let's see what we can work out." What they are thinking is, "Fuck the USA! They must die!" I want to blow myself up too and screw virgins for Allah!" What we are dealing with now is unlike anything the civilized world has ever known. Iran with nukes = American cities completely destroyed. Imagine Boston, Houson, and Los Angeles suddenly becoming black spots on the American map. It can't happen.

I understand your concern but, the reality is that they won't have the ability to launch such an attack for a good 10-15 years, even if they wanted to launch an attack we would stop it before any missle was fired.

We have a missle defense system that shoots missles mid-air, so we are more then prepared. They can't harm us.

Originally Posted by guerilla

I understand your concern but, the reality is that they won't have the ability to launch such an attack for a good 10-15 years, even if they wanted to launch an attack we would stop it before any missle was fired.

That is why I don't think war with them is necessary at this time.

Originally Posted by guerilla

We have a missle defense system that shoots missles mid-air, so we are more then prepared. They can't harm us.

We are not just concerned about missiles. We are concerned about any kind of nuclear weapon device getting into the hands of Al Qaeda or another such irrational psycho die for Allah network. It is a very real threat. 10-15 years will end up becoming the present. We have to do what it takes to make sure Iran does not end up with nukes in that time. If that means war in 5-8 years, then that is the route we will have to take.

Originally Posted by guerilla

I think its barbaric, but I don't live in Iran, so I really don't care too much. America cares too much about the affairs of other nations, this country should try sticking its nose in its own business for a change. Our infrastructure has big issues, bridges are collapsing and roads are in poor condition. The economy is in shambles, the economic stimulus was a joke, and people are losing jobs everyday, and yet all you guys are worried about is a potential threat in 15 years, WHAT ABOUT TODAY? what about now?

Why not get our american heads out of our asses and fix our nation, screw the rest of the world, we have issues to deal with at home, we can't afford to be prancing around the world like some kind of global police force while our nation is crumbling.

I'm sorry Guerilla, but this is the stupidest thing I have ever heard, EVER.

I'm not even capable of giving a discernable reply and refering to your "Un-fucking-believable abuse of human rights isn't that good, but hey, it's not happening in our country" statement in the same post, so I'll leave it.

But seriously - first of all, the US in the most advance nation in the world. It has problems and is in a short-term economic crisis, yes. But it is not "crumbling".

How can you dismiss trying to combat a religiously extremist, human rights abusing, insanely anti-American government as "prancing around the world like some global police force" when said government is not only a main supplier of oil that can now twist arms in a way never before seen, who is sending imams to spread religious extremism to the world as well as being one of the leaders in the world of religous extremism, and is training and harbouring terrorists that not only destroy our efforts in the region but are fully equipped to attack us with weapons supplied by this very government that is coincidentally threatening to become nuclear, a move that would make this already powerful America hating oil-rich country one of the most powerful countries in the world, JUST BECAUSE they'll only become nuclear in a few years.

Wow, it is soo reassuring to realise how silly I've been to worry seeing as there are still a few years left until terrorists get nuclear weapons. What a relief, let me tell you.

THE TOWER

SUDDEN CHANGE
RELEASE
DOWNFALL
REVELATION

Down the rabbit hole...


Follow the white rabbit...

Certainly fear is what has been a major driving force for the Republican party since 9/11. How much of that fear do you think is justified, and how much is manufactured for political gain?

Fear is stupid they love it. Leaders of death all of it manufactured none of it justified. Pirates attacking. The more that we fear them the bigger they get don't be surprised if they discovered it. And don't be surprised if they are gloating for it. Are they the heroes or the pirates? Which ones are real and who do you trust. Who's trying to conquer us? Pirates!

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

I see your point, but Iran trains suicide bomber terrorist organizations who want to kill us for crazy religious nut reasons. They are not the Soviet Union. They are not thinking, "Well, both sides want to live, so let's see what we can work out." What they are thinking is, "Fuck the USA! They must die!" I want to blow myself up too and screw virgins for Allah!" What we are dealing with now is unlike anything the civilized world has ever known. Iran with nukes = American cities completely destroyed. Imagine Boston, Houson, and Los Angeles suddenly becoming black spots on the American map. It can't happen.

Originally Posted by the fishy

How can you dismiss trying to combat a religiously extremist, human rights abusing, insanely anti-American government as "prancing around the world like some global police force" when said government is not only a main supplier of oil that can now twist arms in a way never before seen, who is sending imams to spread religious extremism to the world as well as being one of the leaders in the world of religous extremism, and is training and harbouring terrorists that not only destroy our efforts in the region but are fully equipped to attack us with weapons supplied by this very government that is coincidentally threatening to become nuclear, a move that would make this already powerful America hating oil-rich country one of the most powerful countries in the world, JUST BECAUSE they'll only become nuclear in a few years.

Wow, it is soo reassuring to realise how silly I've been to worry seeing as there are still a few years left until terrorists get nuclear weapons. What a relief, let me tell you.

THE FEAR. THE PARANOIA. THE DARK KNIGHT.

Umm... What about him?

ENDING----------------------------------BEGINNING
TRANSITION-----------------------------SPONTANEITY
ELIMINATION----------------------------FAITH
INEXORABLE FORCES-------------------APPARENT FOLLY

Not to drag myself into another endlessly speculative debate, but I just wanted to say that Iran with nuclear weapons is nothing but a suicide bomber who has to run across a football field with snipers in the stands and land mines in the astro-turf, just to get within a few feet of a target that really matters.

It's said that their main objection is the destruction of Israel. Does anyone have any idea at all of what would happen after that time came? Unless their launch site is a complete secret, undetectable by satellite or ground-based surveillance, the rocket will be bombed off the launch pad. If it does take flight, and smacks down in Tel-Aviv or someplace, Iran will be converged on, and the country will be blown off the face of the planet. There will be no more Iranian government.

If it is fired toward the U.S. (which isn't even possible right now, if I understand their range correctly) it will likely be shot down and, again, the Iranian government will be stomped on like ants.

If it was about acquiring munitions and bringing them into the U.S. to detonate them; that could have been doing ages ago. Nuclear weapons are - and have been for a very long time - sold on the black market. If it was Iran's no. 1 policy to do all of these things, the ball would likely have been set in motion for quite some time.

As of right now, I don't know that I've seen Iran doing anything the U.S. hasn't done in times of war - selling arms to top bidders, for whatever reason. This includes our selling of weapons to the same group that our Administration is fear-mongering about.

The Iran-Contra affair was a political scandal which was revealed in 1986 as a result of earlier events during the Reagan administration. It began as an operation to increase U.S.-Iranian relations, wherein Israel would ship weapons to a moderate, politically influential group of Iranians opposed to the Ayatollah Khomeini; the U.S. would reimburse Israel with those weapons and receive payment from Israel. The moderate Iranians agreed to do everything in their power to achieve the release of six U.S. hostages, who were being held by Hezbollah. The plan eventually deteriorated into an arms-for-hostages scheme, in which members of the executive branch sold weapons to Iran in exchange for the release of the American hostages, without the direct authorization of President Ronald Reagan.[1][2] Large modifications to the plan were conjured by Lieutenant Colonel Oliver North of the National Security Council in late 1985. In North's plan, a portion of the proceeds from the weapon sales was diverted to fund anti-Sandinista and anti-communist rebels, or Contras, in Nicaragua.[3] While President Ronald Reagan was a supporter of the Contra cause,[4] there has not been any evidence uncovered showing that he authorized this plan.[1][2][5]
After the weapon sales were revealed in November 1986, Ronald Reagan appeared on national television and stated that the weapons transfers had indeed occurred, but that the United States did not trade arms for hostages.[6] The investigation was compounded when large volumes of documents relating to the scandal were destroyed or withheld from investigators by Reagan administration officials.[7] On March 4, 1987, Reagan returned to the airwaves in a nationally televised address, taking full responsibility for any actions that he was unaware of, and admitting that "what began as a strategic opening to Iran deteriorated, in its implementation, into trading arms for hostages."[8]
Many investigations ensued, including those by the United States Congress and the three-man, Reagan-appointed Tower Commission. Neither could find any evidence that Reagan himself knew of the extent of the multiple programs.[1] In the end, fourteen administration officials were charged with crimes, and eleven convicted, including Caspar Weinberger the Secretary of Defense during these events.[9] They were all pardoned in the final days of the George H. W. Bush presidency, who had been vice-president at the time.[10]

Now, I'm not saying that Iran is innocent, or that they shouldn't be watched closely, but I'm not buying into the fear mongering. I'm more inclined to believe that we've used much more definitive cowboy rhetoric than "so and so must be wiped off the map," and with so little (empirically shown to stop terrorist attacks or severely cripple the terrorists ability to mobilize and strike) evidence since Sept 11th seven years ago, I'm just not an "OMG there could be a terrorist attack lurking around every corner!!!" For me, it would be the same as being afraid of going outside for a bike ride because "OMG there could be a slasher lurking around every corner!!"


Were there some fool-proof, peaceful way to start assessing the Iran issue, getting our FACTS straight, and getting the SEVERITY of the issue straight, instead of the "guns blazing" notion of "Iran hates Israel, and they are selling arms to the people we are fighting!! LET'S GET 'EM!!!" then I'd be a little more inclined to take Iran seriously. As of now, I don't see them doing much more than the U.S. has done in certain points in history. The movie Iron Man did a good job of bringing that concept to the public. All's (usually) fair in war and profiteering. There is very little we can blame some other faction for doing that we (the U.S. government) hasn't been guilty of, itself, in the past.


But, yes: another terrorist attack would be a huge advantage to McCain. Regardless of what many anti-Obama people want to say about him, the fact of the matter is that many of them are crucifying him for what he hasn't done yet. America has bred a paradigm that someone must be the cold-hearted Eastwood type to ever get anything done. Many of us applaud the archetypal hero with the hardcore rhetoric and the tough-guy self-promotion, because we are under just another one of many other illusions about life: That only the overtly "hard" can be sufficient leaders in times of great distress, and that those that take the time to think and calculate their actions - leveling in a bit of all-important diplomacy - are seen as weaklings, simply because a great number of Americanized "badasses" don't understand that rationale.



But oh well. Regardless of who wins, I hope that one day people wake up and realize that there is much more going on in the world (especially in the U.S.) than terrorism. The problem is that terrorism is such a scary distraction idea, than many people don't realize that it's only a small piece of the many things that are actually wrong with this world.

Iran is a state sponsor of mindless suicide bomber terrorism. Israel is their major enemy, and the United States is their major enemy. Don't forget that jihadists welcome the idea of dying while killing infidels like you. So the concern of the Iranian government and the terrorists they train for Iran is not such a major factor when put up against devastating the United States or Israel.

They could blow up nukes here without shooting missiles, and my bigger concern is that they will get nukes into the hands of jihadist terrorists that they may train or just team up with because they have a common enemy. Iran with nukes is out of the question.

Who has our government said should be wiped off the map? What have they said that is worse? Honestly, how afraid are you that we are going to nuke a country out of existence for some irrational religious or other such reasons?

I don't think you get it UM, if we attack Iran, it's pretty much the start of the third world war, I don't think most people understand that, but if we do attack them, be ready for a shitstorm.

C'mon, people, you know what McCain's dude was saying. Only Obama and everyone he knows can be castigated for making honest but politically vulnerable assessments of the historical moment.

Originally Posted by guerilla

I don't think you get it UM, if we attack Iran, it's pretty much the start of the third world war, I don't think most people understand that, but if we do attack them, be ready for a shitstorm.

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

That is why I don't think war with them is necessary at this time.

We already have that kind of storm going on right now. We are at war with Islamofascism. We don't want to go to war with the Iranian government any more than we already are (We are fighting their terrorists in Iraq already.), but we will to stop them from having nukes. Iran with nukes is a far worse scenario than an increase in the storm we have going on right now. Iran with nukes is assured nuclear attack on the United States. Think about that.

Originally Posted by The Fishy

I'm sorry Guerilla, but this is the stupidest thing I have ever heard, EVER.

I'm not even capable of giving a discernable reply and refering to your "Un-fucking-believable abuse of human rights isn't that good, but hey, it's not happening in our country" statement in the same post, so I'll leave it.

But seriously - first of all, the US in the most advance nation in the world. It has problems and is in a short-term economic crisis, yes. But it is not "crumbling".

How can you dismiss trying to combat a religiously extremist, human rights abusing, insanely anti-American government as "prancing around the world like some global police force" when said government is not only a main supplier of oil that can now twist arms in a way never before seen, who is sending imams to spread religious extremism to the world as well as being one of the leaders in the world of religous extremism, and is training and harbouring terrorists that not only destroy our efforts in the region but are fully equipped to attack us with weapons supplied by this very government that is coincidentally threatening to become nuclear, a move that would make this already powerful America hating oil-rich country one of the most powerful countries in the world, JUST BECAUSE they'll only become nuclear in a few years.

Wow, it is soo reassuring to realise how silly I've been to worry seeing as there are still a few years left until terrorists get nuclear weapons. What a relief, let me tell you.

I should mention that you made a lot of great and well put points in that post.

I don't think you get it UM, if we attack Iran, it's pretty much the start of the third world war

Yeah, that's what he wants.

Thank you very much, UM.

Now, I was going to add this before, but I had no time.

This is pointless. No matter what facts are given to you, you will dismiss even the most uncontroverted fact as propoganda fed to brainwashed Republicans (which, incidentally, does not apply to me, my not being Republican) with a few meaningless sentences that make no points whatsoever that nonetheless you obviously feel are pilosophical and deep even though they are actually quite stupid.

Now, you haven't done this yet. But there is a whole archive (called Dreamviews) out there documenting this exact reaction coming from you, which leads me to think it might happen once more here. Obviously I realise it might not happen that way, which would be quite a pleasant change.

Now, coming sharply back to the point. Two things:

1) If you are so inclined to dismiss the very real reasons I gave towards Iran being a serious threat as lies or fear-mongering, you can. But bear in mind I am not asking you to trust the American government.

I am asking you to believe Iran's own government websites that proudly uphold their religious extremism, their grasp of Shari'ah law and the art of stoning people to death, their intent to wipe Israel (which, whatever you think of it, is a very real ally to the U.S.) off the map, their commendation and support of (and by some sources, the alliance they have) Hizbollah, Syria, Hamas, etc, and their intent to blockade oil if attack, among other things.

Or if you can't find their websites, try searching for information on their schoolbooks. I bet that'd be fun.

Now, on to my second point. They will not admit everything. Of course not. But there is evidence, supported/ even found by many governments, of everything else we worry about - for instance, their training of terrorists. Again, you don't need to trust the Bush administration in this case.

I know many people who would give a large number of their bodyparts to live in the U.S. If you distrust your government so much, move to Cuba. Or hey, move to Iran, I hear they have really great beaches.

Let me guess - the whole country of Iran doesn't actually exist, it's just a lie spread by Bush!

Thank you very much, UM.

You are UM. It's the paranoia again.

Actually, I have another idea. How about you go on holiday on holiday to S'derot? Then you'll be able to prove it to us all that terroism is totally fake!

Btw, I forgot to mention something in my last post, fixing it now.

I never said terrorism was fake where did you get that idea? Oh that's right you already know it's fake and trying to lie to us.

Originally Posted by Minervas Phoenix

Fear is stupid they love it. Leaders of death all of it manufactured none of it justified. Pirates attacking. The more that we fear them the bigger they get don't be surprised if they discovered it. And don't be surprised if they are gloating for it. Are they the heroes or the pirates? Which ones are real and who do you trust. Who's trying to conquer us? Pirates!

THE FEAR. THE PARANOIA. THE DARK KNIGHT.

Right. You say we're paranoid?

lying and paranoid yes correct.

I'm not going to turn this into a big deal but where was I meant to have lied? I really just don't get it... sorry.

So you don't understand your own lying statements. I doubt it I think that's another lie.