A researched argument for drug legalization

**aceofspades** · 08-31-2008 05:53 PM

i believe that drugs should be legalized. Not because drugs are good or that I would ever take a drug the problem with drugs is the "drug trade".

Money
Violence
Resources
"forbidden fruit"
Organized Crime

Money
The most hurtful part of drugs is that it takes a huge amount of money to buy drugs versus how much they are actually worth. 90% of the price of drugs are from skirting around the law. In places where marijuana is legal (ie. Amsterdam) marijuana is cheap and is seldom abused. It as much part of the culture as cigars are here.

Violence
People get killed because of drugs and wars occur over drugs. Inner city gang violence is almost always about drugs. Most gangs are fighting for “territory”. This territory isn’t for strong arm tactics or protection money like the Mafia it is simply for drugs.

Resources
The government spends a lot of resources on the "War on Drugs" more than any other country. There is SO much resources spent on it which would be better off not being spent at all or put into more police officers to deal with other problems.

“Forbidden Fruit”
By forbidding it they are making it a hip thing to do. It is the same as alcohol and tobacco with minors. Most minors would not be obsessed if they were legal. I mean the United States is the only place in the world where people get stone drunk frequently in high school. Other places the drinking age on beer/wine is 16. Beer of course being less alcoholic than everything else. But still people in Europe can get a drink or two if they want to in the afternoon and responsible. And of course they have mass transit there so if you get drunk you can take a bus home (can't in most places in the states).

Organized Crime
Drugs breed gang violence. Do you know why the Mafia doesn't exist anymore? (or at least doesn’t have as much power) Its because they legalized gambling, prostitution (in some forms), and alcohol. Everything was over those three things and since they were things that everyday people would do occasionally public opinion (as it is on drugs) were that it was okay. Prohibition is what caused americans to be binge drinkers. You could only get drunk every once in a while if you were able to get into an underground bar. I'm guessing if you went through all the trouble to get into a underground bar you aren't going to drink one beer (or if a 18 year old gets into a bar).

what we should do

Legalize Pot
Have the government dispense drugs

Why should we have the government dispense drugs?
·Addiction
·Deadly Drugs

Addiction
Drugs are addictive substances. There is no doubt. But the solution is not to eliminate drugs. We need to limit them. For example a person can only buy a certain amount of it a day and than the government can limit people and prevent addiction.
Now countries in Europe have done this successfully. In many European countries you can buy one dose of some harder drugs from government dispensaries. You only get one dose and that’s it. This means that since its readily available from the government and you can buy it from the government it would be hard to find it illegally. Meaning that people could be prevented from addiction by not being able to overdo it. This could be shroms, acid (in small amounts), and maybe cocaine.

Deadly Drugs
Now that the government has control over the drug trade they can eliminate the most deadly drugs. This means meth, heroine, oxycotton, etc. These drugs are easy to OD and there is no safe way to use these drugs. It is extremely difficult if not improbable to be a casual user of these drugs and they have obvious effects on the brain. They kill brain cells and are just horrible. Now that the government has control you can only get these illegally. Sure this goes back to the main problem of forbidding but people can be educated and why these are simply not drugs that will have any benefit for you. You can smoke marijuana before a movie and you have the benefit of being all trippy and not really having any consequences.
The American people are not that stupid. The government has been able to curve meth by showing ads of meth heads. That and since you can get other drugs legally it just doesn’t make sense to get these drugs.

Control
Now that the government has control they can make it so obvious addicts get turned down and possibly baker acted. The government doesn’t have to control drugs by force and now violence will subside. Thugs will have nothing to defend or no business model. Once you take away drugs….whats left for organized crime. It would simply eliminate crime completely and keep people from getting mixed up with the drug business out of necessity now that there will be alternatives (eg. Real jobs). Less money will be spent on drugs and thus the money people have that is not spent on drugs can go towards the economy and create jobs.

Thanks and I just wanted to state a case.

**drewmandan** · 08-31-2008 06:01 PM

I don't think you'll get any sensible argument here. I doubt anyone can make a rational case for keeping drugs illegal.

**aceofspades** · 08-31-2008 06:03 PM

well there are some things reasons against it. Them being that they are addictive and that many drugs are deadly. Not to mention kids...

That is why I mentioned that we should have the government control it.

**ChrissyMaria** · 08-31-2008 07:52 PM

Well, imo the drugs that are bad need to be legalized first, the more dangerous the drug the better results through legalization, all the harm associated with drugs comes from its legal status, and addictive properties..

But if government regulated hard hard drugs, overdoses would come down dramatically...and addiction also...as for pot...pot should be sold like alcohol, in gas stations or...whereever.

**drewmandan** · 08-31-2008 09:01 PM

Originally Posted by aceofspades

well there are some things reasons against it. Them being that they are addictive and that many drugs are deadly. Not to mention kids...

That is why I mentioned that we should have the government control it.

Tobacco.
Alcohol.
Over-the-counter drugs.
Ritalin.

Why the fuck are these legal, then?

**[SomeGuy]** · 08-31-2008 09:03 PM

Wait, what?

**nitsuJ** · 08-31-2008 09:22 PM

Originally Posted by guerilla

Well, imo the drugs that are bad need to be legalized first, the more dangerous the drug the better results through legalization, all the harm associated with drugs comes from its legal status, and addictive properties..

You think addictions of drugs like meth and heroin would go down if they became legal?

I mean from what you said it seems like you think the harm and addictions of those drugs will decrease once legalized, I don't get how you come to that conclusion.

Originally Posted by guerilla

But if government regulated hard hard drugs, overdoses would come down dramatically...and addiction also...as for pot...pot should be sold like alcohol, in gas stations or...whereever.

They already try to regulate them, addictions and overdoses still happen. All the government will ever be able to do is try to regulate.

If they (drugs) were legalized in my opinion, more people would do them, especially the people that didn't use them in the first place because of them being illegal.

**nitsuJ** · 08-31-2008 09:23 PM

Originally Posted by drewmandan

Tobacco.
Alcohol.
Over-the-counter drugs.
Ritalin.

Why the fuck are these legal, then?

Morning Glory Seeds

**aceofspades** · 09-01-2008 01:21 PM

Originally Posted by nitsuJ

You think addictions of drugs like meth and heroin would go down if they became legal?

I mean from what you said it seems like you think the harm and addictions of those drugs will decrease once legalized, I don't get how you come to that conclusion.

They already try to regulate them, addictions and overdoses still happen. All the government will ever be able to do is try to regulate.

If they (drugs) were legalized in my opinion, more people would do them, especially the people that didn't use them in the first place because of them being illegal.

you see I think that is a myth. People don't make the decision not to take a drug based on whether or not its illegal. Thats the last thing they think about.

people are going to take drugs anyways. The problem is not the people who get addicted to drugs...its the gang violence that is caused by it. It is destroying our economy and taking away a lot of money from our economy.

I never said overdoes and addictions won't happen but they would be reduced.

I also stated that some drugs cannot be moderated and are too deadly to let people take. For example like you said...meth and herion. Meth is by fr the worst drug ever. Those kind of drugs that simply are not safe and can fry your brain the first time you use them.

Deadly Drugs
Now that the government has control over the drug trade they can eliminate the most deadly drugs. This means meth, ecstasy, heroine, oxycotton, etc. These drugs are easy to OD and there is no safe way to use these drugs. No One has ever been a casual user of these drugs and they have obvious effects on the brain. They kill brain cells and are just horrible. Now that the government has control you can only get these illegally. Sure this goes back to the main problem of forbidding but people can be educated and why these are simply not drugs that will have any benefit for you. You can smoke marijuana before a movie and you have the benefit of being all trippy and not really having any consequences.
The American people are not that stupid. The government has been able to curve meth by showing ads of meth heads. That and since you can get other drugs legally it just doesn’t make sense to get these drugs.

Like I said by making other non-lethal drugs we can cause people to steer away from those lethal drugs. Not only because they are not legal and you wouldn't be able to get them but also because their would be other less deadly drugs that will take the place of those.

Last time I checked their has never been an overdose of marijuana.

**archdreamer** · 09-01-2008 01:54 PM

Deadly Drugs
Now that the government has control over the drug trade they can eliminate the most deadly drugs. This means meth, ecstasy, heroine, oxycotton, etc. These drugs are easy to OD and there is no safe way to use these drugs. No One has ever been a casual user of these drugs and they have obvious effects on the brain. They kill brain cells and are just horrible. Now that the government has control you can only get these illegally. Sure this goes back to the main problem of forbidding but people can be educated and why these are simply not drugs that will have any benefit for you. You can smoke marijuana before a movie and you have the benefit of being all trippy and not really having any consequences.
The American people are not that stupid. The government has been able to curve meth by showing ads of meth heads. That and since you can get other drugs legally it just doesn’t make sense to get these drugs.

You do realise that this is the exact same argument presented by prohibitionists about cannabis et cetera? Instead of wanting to force your views about a large group of drugs upon the public, you want to force your views about a subset of that group upon the public. It's the same principle, where you seem to believe that others should be coercively subject to your judgment about thier private activities.

EDIT:

No One has ever been a casual user of these drugs

A researched argument for drug legalization

A researched argument

researched

Compare.

**aceofspades** · 09-01-2008 01:58 PM

Originally Posted by archdreamer

You do realise that this is the exact same argument presented by prohibitionists about cannabis et cetera? Instead of wanting to force your views about a large group of drugs upon the public, you want to force your views about a subset of that group upon the public. It's the same principle, where you seem to believe that others should be coercively subject to your judgment about thier private activities.

EDIT:

Compare.

There just is no safe way to use those drugs I'm sorry. And like I said those drugs are way too easy to OD on and way too easy to ruin people.

I am just saying that we should have non-lethal drugs available so that the lethal drugs can be rooted out.

edit: im sure their has been exceptions too that. But its pretty much impossible to be a casual user of those.

**archdreamer** · 09-01-2008 02:05 PM

So who, then, I ask you, should have the authority to decide which drugs are categorized as 'lethal' or 'non-lethal', and should be empowered to force others to fall in line with this decision?

**aceofspades** · 09-01-2008 02:12 PM

Well....narcotics (+meth).

**archdreamer** · 09-01-2008 02:17 PM

So, yourself then?

(You did not answer the question)

**Sisyphus50** · 09-01-2008 02:50 PM

Deadly Drugs
Now that the government has control over the drug trade they can eliminate the most deadly drugs. This means meth, ecstasy, heroine, oxycotton, etc. These drugs are easy to OD and there is no safe way to use these drugs. No One has ever been a casual user of these drugs and they have obvious effects on the brain.

I'm calling bullshit here. My friends have been using XTC casually for years without problem, and we're all college educated, intelligent people. It's only harmful if you have no fucking idea what you're doing with it. Understand the science behind its effects, and how to stay safe with it (drink a lot of water, go take a piss every 60-90 minutes, don't take too much in one hit) and you'll be fine.

XTC uses up the serotonin in your brain at remarkably high speed, hence the euphoric feeling. Serotonin takes at least 2 weeks for your brain to get back its full supply. Ergo, if you stagger your pill popping to once-in-a-fortnight intervals, you won't have any nasty side effects. Hell, the worst side effect I've had is sore teeth, entirely my own fault because I chewed a mouthful of ice just to prove I couldn't feel the cold anymore (a lesson I've definitely learned from).

It's the hardcore dickheads that slam back ten 90% pure pills, chase it with tequilla, then drink NO WATER all night that end up frying their brain and convulsing on club dance floors. They give the rest of us a bad name and give more ammo to the anti-drug lobby to 'protect the children from themselves'.

Your well researched argument requires more research, clearly.

**aceofspades** · 09-01-2008 03:21 PM

Originally Posted by Alextanium

I'm calling bullshit here. My friends have been using XTC casually for years without problem, and we're all college educated, intelligent people. It's only harmful if you have no fucking idea what you're doing with it. Understand the science behind its effects, and how to stay safe with it (drink a lot of water, go take a piss every 60-90 minutes, don't take too much in one hit) and you'll be fine.

XTC uses up the serotonin in your brain at remarkably high speed, hence the euphoric feeling. Serotonin takes at least 2 weeks for your brain to get back its full supply. Ergo, if you stagger your pill popping to once-in-a-fortnight intervals, you won't have any nasty side effects. Hell, the worst side effect I've had is sore teeth, entirely my own fault because I chewed a mouthful of ice just to prove I couldn't feel the cold anymore (a lesson I've definitely learned from).

It's the hardcore dickheads that slam back ten 90% pure pills, chase it with tequilla, then drink NO WATER all night that end up frying their brain and convulsing on club dance floors. They give the rest of us a bad name and give more ammo to the anti-drug lobby to 'protect the children from themselves'.

Your well researched argument requires more research, clearly.

well i guess I was wrong about ectasy.

thanks

although I still really really don't think narcotics (in their actual definition) can be used safely. And of course meth. Meth is just a pile of shit bought OTC and random household chemicals brewed up in a trailer. I'm sure meth that is actually pure (if their is such thing) isn't as devastating but its pretty rare.

And btw sorry I just kinda put a few in their. i think the only drugs that should be illegal are narcotics.

Hey but thanks if i ever do take ectasy for some stupid reason I'll remember to do that. So basically once every 2 weeks max. So are you pre-med or something?

**nitsuJ** · 09-01-2008 07:09 PM

Originally Posted by aceofspades

you see I think that is a myth. People don't make the decision not to take a drug based on whether or not its illegal. Thats the last thing they think about.

I make my decision based off of its legal status. If I do drugs I get fired from my job because we have random periodic drug tests.

**drewmandan** · 09-01-2008 08:12 PM

Doesn't it stand to reason that many drug addicts don't seek help for their addictions because they know they'll get sent to jail if they tell anyone? And hence, wouldn't it also stand to reason that legalized drugs would increase the frequency of people seeking help, and thus decrease the incidence of ODs and ruined lives?

**StonedApe** · 09-02-2008 02:13 AM

I think if drugs were legalized, it would be possible to get pure coke, speed, or herion for about the same price as some poorly cut shit. Because of this, I think there would be a jump in the number of addicts at first, then a gradually decrease over time. After a few years they would be much lower than now. Information is the key. People need accurate info on drugs, then the number of addicts will decrease.

**nitsuJ** · 09-02-2008 04:28 AM

Originally Posted by drewmandan

Doesn't it stand to reason that many drug addicts don't seek help for their addictions because they know they'll get sent to jail if they tell anyone? And hence, wouldn't it also stand to reason that legalized drugs would increase the frequency of people seeking help, and thus decrease the incidence of ODs and ruined lives?

I've never known a drug addict to go to jail when seeking help from rehab centers or other places that help with drug addiction.

**Sisyphus50** · 09-02-2008 04:28 AM

Originally Posted by aceofspades

Hey but thanks if i ever do take ectasy for some stupid reason I'll remember to do that. So basically once every 2 weeks max. So are you pre-med or something?

I'm not pre-med but I am well-read. We don't take it for 'stupid reasons' either

We take it because it enhances a good night by amping up your sensory input (and it's cheaper than alcohol by a long shot). I haven't tried it yet, but I'm told having sex on E is so good it can make you pass out from the pleasure.

**nitsuJ** · 09-02-2008 04:42 AM

Originally Posted by Alextanium

I'm not pre-med but I am well-read. We don't take it for 'stupid reasons' either

We take it because it enhances a good night by amping up your sensory input (and it's cheaper than alcohol by a long shot). I haven't tried it yet, but I'm told having sex on E is so good it can make you pass out from the pleasure.

I've heard that too, still that'd be a little bit dangerous since E increases your body temperature. I don't know if it's already been stated in this thread, but in rave parties where they have the sprinkler systems on, that's from people taking E to keep them cool.

Fun fact, in case someone didn't know!

**StonedApe** · 09-02-2008 06:50 AM

I don;t know if I really wanna do E. But I would do a molly. But E is cut with speed and other shit some times. They really should legalize stuff like that, just so that people actually know for sure what they are getting. Pills are always a risky thing to buy on the street.

**aceofspades** · 09-02-2008 06:51 AM

Originally Posted by Alextanium

I'm not pre-med but I am well-read. We don't take it for 'stupid reasons' either

We take it because it enhances a good night by amping up your sensory input (and it's cheaper than alcohol by a long shot). I haven't tried it yet, but I'm told having sex on E is so good it can make you pass out from the pleasure.

well in my case it would be a stupid reason