Thread: guns

Originally Posted by aorozco

this is a topic that i love to talk about. lots of people have so many different opinions about it (writing a paper) so throw me some ideas and arguments, so here goes:



are guns good for our country, or are they bad?

They're neither good nor bad. You have people that use them for sport, then you have people that use them for murder. You have good and bad uses, but all in all, there's no good or bad about them. It depends on how a person uses them to determine how good or bad they can be.

I see no problem in them.

Guns in the hands of the populace is a good thing if the government also has guns.

Guns are our defense against oppressive governments. Therefore, I am all for gun ownership. Just make sure you know how to use it properly.

Certain guns are for hunting, certain guns are for self defense. Some guns have no purpose other than killing people. No one needs a machine gun except for the military or swat team. High rate of fires weapons should be banned, guns for hunting and self defense should require extensive background checks and be heavily moderated.

Less guns = less gun violence. NYC has outlawed guns and there is far less violence, very few countries have large problems with weapons, the US is one of them because guns are largely unregulated compared to other countries.

Originally Posted by ninja9578

Certain guns are for hunting, certain guns are for self defense. Some guns have no purpose other than killing people. No one needs a machine gun except for the military or swat team. High rate of fires weapons should be banned, guns for hunting and self defense should require extensive background checks and be heavily moderated.

Less guns = less gun violence. NYC has outlawed guns and there is far less violence, very few countries have large problems with weapons, the US is one of them because guns are largely unregulated compared to other countries.

Outlawing guns is a blatant violation of the Second Amendment. Tisk, tisk, NYC.

Originally Posted by ninja9578

Certain guns are for hunting, certain guns are for self defense. Some guns have no purpose other than killing people. No one needs a machine gun except for the military or swat team. High rate of fires weapons should be banned, guns for hunting and self defense should require extensive background checks and be heavily moderated.

Less guns = less gun violence. NYC has outlawed guns and there is far less violence, very few countries have large problems with weapons, the US is one of them because guns are largely unregulated compared to other countries.

In Canada it's very easy to get a gun above the 45th parallel, yet gun crime isn't a huge problem, so there goes your little theory.

Originally Posted by drewmandan

In Canada it's very easy to get a gun above the 45th parallel, yet gun crime isn't a huge problem, so there goes your little theory.

True, a majority of Canadians also leave their doors unlocked at night.

Very bad. Guns should be totally illegal for anything other than hunting purposes, and a license must be otained that requires a background check and a psychological assesment.

Think of the horiffic number of gun crimes in America. Think of how many kids have died, how many family members have accidentally being shot, how many innocent people have died. Even the guilty people shouldn't be given the power to kill eachother.

Now think of somewhere like the UK, where guns are illegal except for hunting purposes. Practically inconsequential death rate from gun crimes; maybe one per month. It's still not the perfect system (you can still get your hands on guns) but it's a hell of a lot better than in America.

So you want the freedom to have a gun. It's your right. But is any freedom worth such a massive loss of innocent life? For me, the answer is pretty obvious.

Originally Posted by Pensive Patrick

Think of how many kids have died, how many family members have accidentally being shot, how many innocent people have died.

Kids and innocent people have been run over by cars. We should ban cars?

So you want the freedom to have a gun. It's your right. But is any freedom worth such a massive loss of innocent life? For me, the answer is pretty obvious.

For me too, it is yes. Frankly, people dieing unnatural deaths is a good indicator of a free society. "Innocent" people die of drugs. That doesn't mean that drugs should be illegal. Whenever something remotely dangerous is legal, lives will be lost. To be quite honest, lives will be lost either way, because criminals don't care about the law. Banning dangerous things is not a solution, it is totalitarian.

The point of the government isn't to make sure that nobody dies. That goal is incompatible with a free society. If dangerous things are legal and that means more people die then OK. Since when is everybody so fixated on creating this wonderful place of honey and elves where nobody ever dies and there never is any form of conflict? Hate to break it to you, but that's not what life is like. Health shouldn't be the number 1 priority in politics, you're gonna end up in a totalitarian society.

Meh, I don't see the need for hunters to have guns, so I think that the only people who should get guns are police officers. I know bad people will inevitably (sp) get them, but there will be Far Less. I mean, there are non-leathal solutions for defence.

Originally Posted by Serkat

Kids and innocent people have been run over by cars. We should ban cars?

Guns don't help you get around.

For me too, it is yes. Frankly, people dieing unnatural deaths is a good indicator of a free society. "Innocent" people die of drugs. That doesn't mean that drugs should be illegal. Whenever something remotely dangerous is legal, lives will be lost. To be quite honest, lives will be lost either way, because criminals don't care about the law. Banning dangerous things is not a solution, it is totalitarian.

The point of the government isn't to make sure that nobody dies. That goal is incompatible with a free society. If dangerous things are legal and that means more people die then OK. Since when is everybody so fixated on creating this wonderful place of honey and elves where nobody ever dies and there never is any form of conflict? Hate to break it to you, but that's not what life is like. Health shouldn't be the number 1 priority in politics, you're gonna end up in a totalitarian society.

I would be a strong supporter of totalitarian society, so obviously our fundamental beliefs clash spectacularily here. It would be pointless to continue an argument.

I'm glad theres people in texas burrying guns right now. Obviously we are gonna need them.

I already posted this in another thread but it's really funny so I'm gonna do it again. This is an excerpt from the Guns and Dope Parties website. http://www.maybelogic.com/gunsanddopeparty/

GUNS and DOCTORS

a. The number of physicians in the United States is 700,000

b. Accidental deaths caused by Physicians per year is 120,000.

c. Accidental deaths per physician is 0.171. (US Dept. of Health &
Human Services)

THINK ABOUT THIS:

a. The number of gun owners in the US is 80,000,000 (yes, eighty- million!).

b. The number of accidental gun deaths per year (all age groups) is 1,500.

c. The number of accidental deaths per gun owner is .0000188.

Statistically, doctors are about 9,000 times more dangerous than gun owners.

FACT: NOT EVERYONE HAS A GUN, BUT ALMOST EVERYONE HAS A DOCTOR.

Alert your friends to this threat. We must ban doctors before this
gets out of hand.

As a public health measure I have withheld the statistics on lawyers
for fear that the shock could cause people to seek medical attention.

That is ridiculous for so many reasons.

Having doctors would mean a much lower death rate than not having doctors. This argument is very, very unconvincing.

It's called satire son. But personally I don't use doctors or guns to often. Only in cases of emergency.

But we gotta have guns. Because the milatary and police sure aren't gonna give up their guns, so the people can't either. Do you really trust the government that much? I don't trust the government at all. Politicians are a bunch of lying cheating bastards. At least thats the current situation in america. If you tried to ban guns here all hell would break loose. Actually, I really hope that this happens, Because then texas would succeed from the union and become the most badass state in existance.

I'll die before I live in a totalitarian state. Fuck that shit. I want FREEDOM.

Originally Posted by stonedape

But we gotta have guns. Because the milatary and police sure aren't gonna give up their guns, so the people can't either.

I live in the UK. The police and military have guns. The people don't. We're all OK with that.

Do you really trust the government that much? I don't trust the government at all. Politicians are a bunch of lying cheating bastards. At least thats the current situation in america. If you tried to ban guns here all hell would break loose. Actually, I really hope that this happens, Because then texas would succeed from the union and become the most badass state in existance.

I'll die before I live in a totalitarian state. Fuck that shit. I want FREEDOM.

I never said I trust the government. I don't. And I wouldn't trust any government unless I had personally set it up.

You don't get it.

Freedom for everyone is existential.

Freedom to control, freedom to be selfish.

Freedom to restrict, and freedom to resist.

You are already free, and so is everyone else.

By your very existence, you are 'restricting' the freedom of another.

It is a dog eat tail world. EVERYTHING is constant consumption.

Originally Posted by stonedape

It's called satire son. But personally I don't use doctors or guns to often. Only in cases of emergency.

But we gotta have guns. Because the milatary and police sure aren't gonna give up their guns, so the people can't either. Do you really trust the government that much? I don't trust the government at all. Politicians are a bunch of lying cheating bastards. At least thats the current situation in america. If you tried to ban guns here all hell would break loose. Actually, I really hope that this happens, Because then texas would succeed from the union and become the most badass state in existance.

I'll die before I live in a totalitarian state. Fuck that shit. I want FREEDOM.

lol. You don't need guns to have freedom. Actually if you need guns for freedom, you live in a pretty fucked up world where apparently you have to physically fight for a bit of freedom. Seriously, you can't defend that a country that outlawed alcohol not to long ago is more free than almost all parts of Europe.

If you even slightly think that all it takes for your government to turn totalitarian is for guns to be illegal, you seriously need to change your government. lol. Sounds like a pretty horrible country to live in with such an opportunistic government. I really hope America isn't That fucked up, but it might be. Europe isn't that fucked up, at any rate.

And of course you have the plain and simple safety-side to it. Almost no-one here has guns. Only the extremely professional criminals have guns, and they only shoot each other. Seriously, gun-armed robberies like practically never happen in the Netherlands.

The whole second amendment is build on the dogma that governments can always lead to one that enslaves people or takes away their freedom, by force. America showed that people willingly trade in their freedom if you scare them enough, guns have little to do with that. Maybe that in the 1800ths an armed populous was indeed a better way of safeguarding freedom against a corrupted government, but a government's power in the 21th century doesn't work in the physical ways it did in the past. The whole doctrine of armed-citizens is out-dated. Without the one benefit, armed citizens just mean armed small-time criminals and children finding daddies 'steel pacifier' in his closet and blowing their brains out.

Originally Posted by Neruo

lol. You don't need guns to have freedom. Actually if you need guns for freedom, you live in a pretty fucked up world where apparently you have to physically fight for a bit of freedom. Seriously, you can't defend that a country that outlawed alcohol not to long ago is more free than almost all parts of Europe.

If you even slightly think that all it takes for your government to turn totalitarian is for guns to be illegal, you seriously need to change your government. lol. Sounds like a pretty horrible country to live in with such an opportunistic government. I really hope America isn't That fucked up, but it might be. Europe isn't that fucked up, at any rate.

We do need quite a bit of change in the way politics are done in this country. We elected george bush president, twice. Thats a scary thing.

My point is that we need guns, as a precaution in case we end up in a totalitarian state. I know america isn't like that now, but theres something here called the patriot act. Thats some straight up fascism right there. We make an act in the name of patrioticism that violates the constituion. That scares me. That and the green party scares the shit out of me. Global warming my ass. Read State of Fear by Michael Crichton, it's an excellent book that explains how the current political tactics(global warming, war on terrorism) could lead us to a totalitarian state if we don't do something NOW to change politics in this country.

I don't own guns, I don't like guns, but I'm glad theres people in texas who do. Police and military in this country are trained to be assholes. I don't want them to be the only ones with guns.

Yeah the Green Party is kinda scary to me too, when I think about what they would do if in power. It's like, under the Republicans or Democrats it might take another few decades to get to full socialism, but with the Green Party it would take a single term.

Even if global warming were real and anthropogenic, so what? The economy is a chaotic ecosystem that is capable of evolution. If anything, a climate crisis would result in huge amounts of innovation in technology and society, not disaster. I mean, if the K/T event never happened, dinosaurs would still be walking the Earth to this day.

Fact is I will never be unprepared. It is a passion and even a hobby of mine, as I spend most of my time in the woods anyhow. Love guns, both as a release and as protection.

Anyone can argue statistics really, but the fact is when you are being beaten and robbed or possibly murdered you probably would have been better off if you were not. A gun saved me at one point from being robbed so yeah I cannot be impartial.

I have a right to exist and stay on par (reasonably) with current protective tools. Guns give me the ability to help myself and more importantly, others. People generally close their windows and shades while others get raped and murdered in the street. Not I. I would shoot, kill, and not feel bad about it.

Originally Posted by Never

I would shoot, kill, and get executed for it.

Fixed

Your point?

Originally Posted by Never

Your point?

No point really, other than to agree with you.

The day before the country bans guns is the day I buy one and lots of ammo to go with it.