White Privilege

**Jeff777** · 01-06-2009 05:29 PM

First off, the VERY first thing I'd like to say is for everyone to remain as civil as possible. Some might misinterpret this thread as the author taking a racist stance by heralding the benefits of being white and others (like myself) see this thread from eyes of interest and curiosity. For those that don't know, I myself am brown but I find this topic fascinating and yet partially disturbing (seeing as it feels like a secret everyone knows about except you o.o). I say that because the author of this article exposes what might have been an unconscious thought to most of us - white privilege and it's effects. It (this article) could be interpreted as the author gloating/bragging about the benefits of being white as opposed to the other races. Like how a male could brag/gloat about the benefits of being a male and getting taken more seriously etc. in areas of business. The author views racism in a different light than what we were all taught. While racism itself is pretty shitty...she sees a plus that came out of it. I am interested to see how DV receives this (and I pray it's with civility, respect, and rationalism) and hope to initiate a very long discussion regarding this and how it may have had an effect in your life etc.

Below is a small excerpt from the article in which the author lists the benefits of being white. For the entire article click here.

Daily effects of white privilege

I think whites are carefully taught not to recognize white privilege, as males are taught not to recognize male privilege. So I have begun in an untutored way to ask what it is like to have white privilege. I have come to see white privilege as an invisible package of unearned assets that I can count on cashing in each day, but about which I was "meant" to remain oblivious. White privilege is like an invisible weightless knapsack of special provisions, maps, passports, codebooks, visas, clothes, tools, and blank checks.

I decided to try to work on myself at least by identifying some of the daily effects of white privilege in my life. I have chosen those conditions that I think in my case attach somewhat more to skin-color privilege than to class, religion, ethnic status, or geographic location, though of course all these other factors are intricately intertwined. As far as I can tell, my African American coworkers, friends, and acquaintances with whom I come into daily or frequent contact in this particular time, place and time of work cannot count on most of these conditions.

1. I can if I wish arrange to be in the company of people of my race most of the time.

2. I can avoid spending time with people whom I was trained to mistrust and who have learned to mistrust my kind or me.

3. If I should need to move, I can be pretty sure of renting or purchasing housing in an area which I can afford and in which I would want to live.

4. I can be pretty sure that my neighbors in such a location will be neutral or pleasant to me.

5. I can go shopping alone most of the time, pretty well assured that I will not be followed or harassed.

6. I can turn on the television or open to the front page of the paper and see people of my race widely represented.

7. When I am told about our national heritage or about "civilization," I am shown that people of my color made it what it is.

8. I can be sure that my children will be given curricular materials that testify to the existence of their race.

9. If I want to, I can be pretty sure of finding a publisher for this piece on white privilege.

10. I can be pretty sure of having my voice heard in a group in which I am the only member of my race.

11. I can be casual about whether or not to listen to another person's voice in a group in which s/he is the only member of his/her race.

12. I can go into a music shop and count on finding the music of my race represented, into a supermarket and find the staple foods which fit with my cultural traditions, into a hairdresser's shop and find someone who can cut my hair.

13. Whether I use checks, credit cards or cash, I can count on my skin color not to work against the appearance of financial reliability.

14. I can arrange to protect my children most of the time from people who might not like them.

15. I do not have to educate my children to be aware of systemic racism for their own daily physical protection.

16. I can be pretty sure that my children's teachers and employers will tolerate them if they fit school and workplace norms; my chief worries about them do not concern others' attitudes toward their race.

17. I can talk with my mouth full and not have people put this down to my color.

18. I can swear, or dress in second hand clothes, or not answer letters, without having people attribute these choices to the bad morals, the poverty or the illiteracy of my race.

19. I can speak in public to a powerful male group without putting my race on trial.

20. I can do well in a challenging situation without being called a credit to my race.

21. I am never asked to speak for all the people of my racial group.

22. I can remain oblivious of the language and customs of persons of color who constitute the world's majority without feeling in my culture any penalty for such oblivion.

23. I can criticize our government and talk about how much I fear its policies and behavior without being seen as a cultural outsider.

24. I can be pretty sure that if I ask to talk to the "person in charge", I will be facing a person of my race.

25. If a traffic cop pulls me over or if the IRS audits my tax return, I can be sure I haven't been singled out because of my race.

26. I can easily buy posters, post-cards, picture books, greeting cards, dolls, toys and children's magazines featuring people of my race.

27. I can go home from most meetings of organizations I belong to feeling somewhat tied in, rather than isolated, out-of-place, outnumbered, unheard, held at a distance or feared.

28. I can be pretty sure that an argument with a colleague of another race is more likely to jeopardize her/his chances for advancement than to jeopardize mine.

29. I can be pretty sure that if I argue for the promotion of a person of another race, or a program centering on race, this is not likely to cost me heavily within my present setting, even if my colleagues disagree with me.

30. If I declare there is a racial issue at hand, or there isn't a racial issue at hand, my race will lend me more credibility for either position than a person of color will have.

31. I can choose to ignore developments in minority writing and minority activist programs, or disparage them, or learn from them, but in any case, I can find ways to be more or less protected from negative consequences of any of these choices.

32. My culture gives me little fear about ignoring the perspectives and powers of people of other races.

33. I am not made acutely aware that my shape, bearing or body odor will be taken as a reflection on my race.

34. I can worry about racism without being seen as self-interested or self-seeking.

35. I can take a job with an affirmative action employer without having my co-workers on the job suspect that I got it because of my race.

36. If my day, week or year is going badly, I need not ask of each negative episode or situation whether it had racial overtones.

37. I can be pretty sure of finding people who would be willing to talk with me and advise me about my next steps, professionally.

38. I can think over many options, social, political, imaginative or professional, without asking whether a person of my race would be accepted or allowed to do what I want to do.

39. I can be late to a meeting without having the lateness reflect on my race.

40. I can choose public accommodation without fearing that people of my race cannot get in or will be mistreated in the places I have chosen.

41. I can be sure that if I need legal or medical help, my race will not work against me.

42. I can arrange my activities so that I will never have to experience feelings of rejection owing to my race.

43. If I have low credibility as a leader I can be sure that my race is not the problem.

44. I can easily find academic courses and institutions which give attention only to people of my race.

45. I can expect figurative language and imagery in all of the arts to testify to experiences of my race.

46. I can chose blemish cover or bandages in "flesh" color and have them more or less match my skin.

47. I can travel alone or with my spouse without expecting embarrassment or hostility in those who deal with us.

48. I have no difficulty finding neighborhoods where people approve of our household.

49. My children are given texts and classes which implicitly support our kind of family unit and do not turn them against my choice of domestic partnership.

50. I will feel welcomed and "normal" in the usual walks of public life, institutional and social.

Note to staff: If this convo gets out of hand or if this post in and of itself is breaking the rules I emphatically apologize and request that it be locked and/or deleted at your discretion

**Jeff777** · 01-06-2009 05:38 PM

One thing I have noticed and have witnessed in my own life. If a white person (as the author mentions above) does something asinine or makes a fool of themself...it won't be attributed to his/her race, but if a person of color say for instance isn't as articulate or educated and does something idiotic on t.v...some people will see that man or woman as being a representative for his or her race. "Just like mexicans, just like indians, just like blacks etc." I've always wondered why this was? o.o

Edit: I myself am quite guilty of this...come to think of it. I simply have absolutely ZERO patience for illiterate and unintelligent people of color on t.v. I say in the back of my head "Jesus dude...you're making your race look bad."

**Timothy Paradox** · 01-06-2009 06:22 PM

Sorry, but I find this ridiculous. The author is obviously an idiot, as he fails to understand that it is normal that white countries see "white culture" as the standard. Do we whites go to Africa and complain that my culture isn't represented there?
Me to random black guy in african village: Hey why the hell can't I buy "white" music here??

My opinion is that races ARE equal. It's a fact. BUT: that doesn't mean that suddenly we have to bow down to THEM and change our culture into theirs.
Thats racism in reverse.

BTW what's the deal with skin color? What the **** does it have to do with anything? People in eastern europe have a totally different culture but they are also white...

**Jeff777** · 01-06-2009 06:31 PM

Originally Posted by Timothy Paradox

BTW what's the deal with skin color? What the **** does it have to do with anything? People in eastern europe have a totally different culture but they are also white...

What do you mean?

**Timothy Paradox** · 01-06-2009 06:46 PM

Originally Posted by Jeff777

What do you mean?

I mean that dispite the fact that they have a different culture compared to mine, they are also white like me.
Which means that skin colour is irrelevant. I'm European, you're most likely American. Different cultures, but that's because of the distance between us, not the colour of our skin.
By the way, I see different skin colors as a good example of the human ability to adapt to our enviroment. Black skin in the really hot and sunny enviroment, white in the colder areas... Brilliant.
None is superior or inferior. By saying that one is better than the other you prove your own inferiority by proving that you know nothing about evolution at all.

**Jeff777** · 01-06-2009 06:59 PM

Originally Posted by Timothy Paradox

I mean that dispite the fact that they have a different culture compared to mine, they are also white like me.
Which means that skin colour is irrelevant. I'm European, you're most likely American. Different cultures, but that's because of the distance between us, not the colour of our skin.
By the way, I see different skin colors as a good example of the human ability to adapt to our enviroment. Black skin in the really hot and sunny enviroment, white in the colder areas... Brilliant.
None is superior or inferior. By saying that one is better than the other you prove your own inferiority by proving that you know nothing about evolution at all.

I agree with this post, however I think you've mistaken the article entirely. The article isn't about superior or inferior skin. It's about her theory on white privilege which gives white people more options, privileges and better treatment in life based (as opposed to the other races) on being born white. Her reasons are listed in the OP. If anything, it exemplifies how we as a human species still have a long way to go if generalizations and judgments are still being made based on ones skin color...which is something the author cites as advantageous to her and the white race as a whole.

That's what I was wanting to extract opinions on, whatever they may be. The article isn't about whose skin is better than whose. It's about an unspoken "hush hush" notion that society gives you better advantages if you're born with white skin, what those advantages may be, and how they may have taken a part in your life.

**Timothy Paradox** · 01-06-2009 07:06 PM

What is "society"? What society? I think it's normal that in a white society blacks are considered to be... different from the norm.
I don't see why a white society should adapt to all other cultures out there. It's not like they do the same for us where they come from.

**Jeff777** · 01-06-2009 07:16 PM

Originally Posted by Timothy Paradox

What is "society"? What society? I think it's normal that in a white society blacks are considered to be... different from the norm.
I don't see why a white society should adapt to all other cultures out there. It's not like they do the same for us where they come from.

You do know that America is "The Great Melting Pot" right? So this "white society" this and "black society" that is an oxymoron if you ask me (presupposing we're being politically correct). Deeming America to be a "white society" undermines the very meaning of what it is to be a melting pot. Or perhaps you're using the term based on who holds the greatest populace in America? At any rate the above post conflicts with your earlier one which states "We are all equal". In this one you get into "white society" this and "whites shouldn't have to adapt to minorities this because they don't do it for us that". Make up your mind dude...seriously, you're flopping worse than John Kerry in the 2004 election. At any rate I digress, so to get back on point...you're still not interpreting the article correctly because you're stating irrelevant cultural divisions between two races (as if one culture was exclusive to a set race anyway

). Read the article again (in it's entirety) and then post.

**Timothy Paradox** · 01-06-2009 07:23 PM

Originally Posted by Jeff777

You do know that America is "The Great Melting Pot" right? So this "white society" this and "black society" that is an oxymoron if you ask me (presupposing we're being politically correct). Deeming America to be a "white society" undermines the very meaning of what it is to be a melting pot. Or perhaps you're using the term based on who holds the greatest populace in America? At any rate the above post conflicts with your earlier one which states "We are all equal". In this one you get into "white society" this and "whites shouldn't have to adapt to minorities this because they don't do it for us that". Make up your mind dude...seriously, you're flopping worse than John Kerry in the 2004 election. At any rate I digress, so to get back on point...you're still not interpreting the article correctly because you're stating irrelevant cultural lines between two races (as if one culture was exclusive to a set race anyway

). Read the article again (in it's entirety) and then post.

Yes, we are equal. But I will not allow my culture to be lost because they want us to change. By the way I'm not talking about America, I'm talking about west-europe. It's a simple fact that western culture dominates in the west. And that's the way it should be. African culture rule in Africa, asian ones in Asia etc.. And that's fine.

What is it you want? Do you want all of our differences to disappear? I hope this never happens.
Interesting thing to think about: A few years back some nut from palestine came to Belgium and demanded that the goverment made arabic an official language. If that isn't outrageous then I don't know what is.

**Jeff777** · 01-06-2009 07:27 PM

Originally Posted by Timothy Paradox

Yes, we are equal. But I will not allow my culture to be lost because they want us to change. By the way I'm not talking about America, I'm talking about west-europe. It's a simple fact that western culture dominates in the west. And that's the way it should be. African culture rule in Africa, asian ones in Asia etc.. And that's fine.

I see what you're saying now.

Originally Posted by Timothy Paradox

What is it you want? Do you want all of our differences to disappear? I hope this never happens.

Why do you assume that is what I want? I never made any mention of that. And furthermore why is it about what I want? I think that's irrelevant to the purpose of this thread. Your question is not very specific at all. At any rate...I am still baffled at how you arrived at a presupposition about me wanting all of our racial differences to disappear. How you managed to extract that from my five posts is beyond me.

**High Hunter** · 01-06-2009 07:32 PM

I think it's weird how other cultures, races, or "colors", never really complain about this kind of stuff. It seems like african americans really want full power. White people forcefully took America from the natives, and you never see them ranting about how they should be equal. I understand and ackowledge the brutal past...african american were brought here as slaves, which is horrible, but now they are at peace. Isn't that enough?

I mean the Whites have privileges here, because they took over the land. If asians took over America back then, would people always hate on yellow privileges? (lol I don't mean that in a racist way at all). It doesn't makes sense to me. Asians and all kinds of new cultures are allowed within now, and are just as powerful as whites and blacks nowadays. I mean look at the president-elect.

I think the more we focus on the differences, the longer they will linger around. Let's concentrate on being equal more, no?

Sorry just ranting

I love the multi-cultured world of today! Full of fresh and exotic ideas.

**Timothy Paradox** · 01-06-2009 07:33 PM

OK. So I believe people from all cultures should be given equal RIGHTS in countries, especially the US. But complaining about music or haircuts is just ridiculous.

Originally Posted by High Hunter

I think it's weird how other cultures, races, or "colors", never really complain about this kind of stuff. It seems like african americans really want full power. White people forcefully took America from the natives, and you never see them ranting about how they should be equal. I understand and ackowledge the brutal past...african american were brought here as slaves, which is horrible, but now they are at peace. Isn't that enough?

I mean the Whites have privileges here, because they took over the land. If asians took over America back then, would people always hate on yellow privileges? (lol I don't mean that in a racist way at all). It makes sense to me. Asians and all kinds of new cultures are allowed within now, and are just as powerful as whites and blacks nowadays. I mean look at the president-elect.

I think the more we focus on the differences, the longer they will linger around. Let's concentrate on being equal more, no?

Sorry just ranting

I love the multi-cultured world of today! Full of fresh and exotic ideas.

Agreed. Racism isn't going away.. It's just changing into racism against whites.

**Jeff777** · 01-06-2009 07:35 PM

Originally Posted by High Hunter

I think it's weird how other cultures, races, or "colors", never really complain about this kind of stuff. It seems like african americans really want full power. White people forcefully took America from the natives, and you never see them ranting about how they should be equal. I understand and ackowledge the brutal past...african american were brought here as slaves, which is horrible, but now they are at peace. Isn't that enough?

I mean the Whites have privileges here, because they took over the land. If asians took over America back then, would people always hate on yellow privileges? (lol I don't mean that in a racist way at all). It doesn't makes sense to me. Asians and all kinds of new cultures are allowed within now, and are just as powerful as whites and blacks nowadays. I mean look at the president-elect.

Jesus Christ guys.

Where are you two getting off making this about blacks complaining? This is NOT another "Beat a white kid day" thread. This is me extracting views/opinions on what the author wrote in the OP! High Hunter, you're a great guy...but frankly I just don't see how your post was relevant to the thread. By that I mean I'm not asking for explanations regarding why white privilege exist...I learned that in U.S. History back in high school...I'm asking for personal experiences that it may be evident in in your life or your views on WP itself.

Originally Posted by Timothy Paradox

Agreed. Racism isn't going away.. It's just changing into racism against whites.

How do you figure?

**High Hunter** · 01-06-2009 07:40 PM

Originally Posted by Jeff777

Jesus Christ guys.

Where are you two getting off making this about blacks complaining? This is NOT another "Beat a white kid day" thread! This is me extracting views/opinions on what the author wrote in the OP!

Lol, sorry man, I didn't mean it that way. But you gotta understand where we're coming from... I'm just tired of hearing about this kind of stuff. With Obama being president, these "white privileges" will slowly dissipitate, that's what I think. I personally view blacks as down right equals to me nowadays.

That's all I'm saying

**Jeff777** · 01-06-2009 07:45 PM

Originally Posted by High Hunter

Lol, sorry man, I didn't mean it that way. But you gotta understand where we're coming from... I'm just tired of hearing about this kind of stuff. With Obama being president, these "white privileges" will slowly dissipitate, that's what I think. I personally view blacks as down right equals to me nowadays.

That's all I'm saying

Digressing from the purpose of the OP a bit...I understand where you're coming from. I also get pissed off sometimes when I hear people of my own race and other minorities saying "Obama's going to fix everything now!". Not to mention play the role of the victim and blame their current mess/problems on other races. What Bill Cosby said on Oprah was damn right. At any rate back on topic

**Timothy Paradox** · 01-06-2009 07:45 PM

I gave you my views on "white privilege" but you don't want to hear them.
This discussion is pointless.

To sum it up: I think white privilege is good. To some extent. We need variation.

**High Hunter** · 01-06-2009 07:46 PM

Originally Posted by Jeff777

One thing I have noticed and have witnessed in my own life. If a white person (as the author mentions above) does something asinine or makes a fool of themself...it won't be attributed to his/her race, but if a person of color say for instance isn't as articulate or educated and does something idiotic on t.v...some people will see that man or woman as being a representative for his or her race. "Just like mexicans, just like indians, just like blacks etc." I've always wondered why this was? o.o

Edit: I myself am quite guilty of this...come to think of it. I simply have absolutely ZERO patience for illiterate and unintelligent people of color on t.v. I say in the back of my head "Jesus dude...you're making your race look bad."

Yeah, I guess this post makes much more sense now. The OP was kind of misleading. I wasn't sure what your intentions were. I gotcha now.

Well think of it this way, these prejudices and stereotypes apply to height, weight, cultures, occupations, careers, and even hobbies!

We could go on about Slim privileges, sober privileges, lawyers privileges, etc. The color/race aspect is just another branch of stereotypes. You know? Our species is just one that likes to put things into classes, and judge for the sake of self-empowerement.

That will probably never change..

Sorry if I'm completely off track now.

**Jeff777** · 01-06-2009 07:48 PM

Originally Posted by Timothy Paradox

To sum it up: I think white privilege is good. To some extent. We need variation.

Now we're on the right track

. Now tell me why you think that?

**Timothy Paradox** · 01-06-2009 07:53 PM

Originally Posted by Jeff777

Now we're on the right track

. Now tell me why you think that?

I already told you. Globalization is a threat. No culture should ever bow down to another - including western culture.

**Jeff777** · 01-06-2009 07:57 PM

Originally Posted by Timothy Paradox

I already told you. Globalization is a threat. No culture should ever bow down to another - including western culture.

And you think white privilege prevents this? How? White privilege has been around as long as racism and if Globalization is gaining, I'm not sure how you see white privilege as "fending this off".

**Timothy Paradox** · 01-06-2009 08:42 PM

Originally Posted by Jeff777

And you think white privilege prevents this? How? White privilege has been around as long as racism and if Globalization is gaining, I'm not sure how you see white privilege as "fending this off".

White privilege in white areas - black privilege in black areas - Asian privilage in Asian areas etc... I'm not saying non whites should have less rights than whites in white areas - I mean that our western culture should remain unchanged and unaffected by the other cultures. "Pure".
Smaller cultures are absorbed and destroyed by globalization. By remaining loyal to your own culture in your country you can prevent being sucked up by the system.

**Jeff777** · 01-06-2009 08:52 PM

Originally Posted by Timothy Paradox

White privilege in white areas - black privilege in black areas - Asian privilage in Asian areas etc... I'm not saying non whites should have less rights than whites in white areas - I mean that our western culture should remain unchanged and unaffected by the other cultures. "Pure".
Smaller cultures are absorbed and destroyed by globalization. By remaining loyal to your own culture in your country you can prevent being sucked up by the system.

Why do you feel so strongly against globalization? o.o

**Timothy Paradox** · 01-06-2009 08:59 PM

Because it threatens diversity. Smaller cultures are changed forever or even disappear altogether - this is a real shame. I'm into linguistics, and now I know that there are about 3000-8000 languages on this world, of which thousands are on the "endangered languages list". Come on, that's a shame.
All those little things that make this big and diverse world interesting are disappearing. When I go to let's say south africa, I DON'T want to eat at McDonalds... I want something typical for that region.

**Jeff777** · 01-06-2009 09:17 PM

Originally Posted by Timothy Paradox

Because it threatens diversity. Smaller cultures are changed forever or even disappear altogether - this is a real shame. I'm into linguistics, and now I know that there are about 3000-8000 languages on this world, of which thousands are on the "endangered languages list". Come on, that's a shame.
All those little things that make this big and diverse world interesting are disappearing. When I go to let's say south africa, I DON'T want to eat at McDonalds... I want something typical for that region.

While I may not entirely agree with you, I do see your point.

**tkdyo** · 01-07-2009 12:43 AM

Im going to try and sound as reserved as possible in this respect, but to me it all comes down to percentages of population. This country is still predominantly white so of course things relating to white culture are going to be more prevalent. That being said, if you go to an area of the US where it is predominantly another race you will find the exact opposite. I view this as good. In fact, I dont mind if other cultures continue to grow in this country, I just dont think any other culture should have to die down because another is growing. Soon, this country may have more hispanics then whites...at that time will we then have an article exactly like this except titled "Hispanic Privilege"? Hopefully not.

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