Thread: "Absolutely torture."

Even if waterboarding wasn't torture, the US shouldn't be doing it. It just reinforces the world view that americans are hypocrites.

Originally Posted by Alric

A lot of people will give things up to protect themself.

That is absolutely correct.

I believe you would have that knife pushed so hard under his chin that it would almost be coming up through his tongue. It is easy to sit at your cushy computer while protected by the U.S. military and talk about your fantasies of self-righteousness, but I am positive that being mugged by reality would give you a completely different perspective on things.

Originally Posted by arcadeRobot

Even if waterboarding wasn't torture, the US shouldn't be doing it. It just reinforces the world view that americans are hypocrites.

What would you do in the nuke situation sleepingdog described? What about the kidnapping situation?


I know I said this pages ago, but I think I am through with this thread and this subject. There isn't really that much more to say about it.

No I wouldn't. I just told you exactly what I would do. And it is a far better method of getting information than using a knife. Why should people resort to brute force tactics in extreme situation, when we know it will not work as effectively? The more extreme the situation, the more we should control our self and do things the proper way.

As for fantasies, well your the last person who should be speaking with them. Your so scared of things that never happen, that it influences your judgment. You really should take a step back and stop buying into the propaganda. Not everyone is out to get us, and while there are terrorists, they are not a serious threat to this country.

Originally Posted by Alric

No I wouldn't. I just told you exactly what I would do. And it is a far better method of getting information than using a knife. Why should people resort to brute force tactics in extreme situation, when we know it will not work as effectively? The more extreme the situation, the more we should control our self and do things the proper way.

The ice cream and Sunday School tactics only work on the piss ants. The leaders don't cave so easily. The three terrorist leaders we used waterboarding on wouldn't say shit until they were waterboarded. A lot of interrogation and Mr. Rogers games preceded the waterboardings. I would bet my CD collection that if your daugher were held captive and you had custody of somebody who knew where she was you wouldn't be bringing in silly people with ice cream cones to get the guy to talk. You would have a weapon putting the guy within an inch of his death and demanding that he tell you where your daughter is. Be realistic.

Originally Posted by Alric

As for fantasies, well your the last person who should be speaking with them. Your so scared of things that never happen, that it influences your judgment. You really should take a step back and stop buying into the propaganda. Not everyone is out to get us, and while there are terrorists, they are not a serious threat to this country.

Did you read the link about foiled terrorist attacks? We haven't been getting attacked because our security is so damn good.

If our security is so great, then why do we need to torture people? It is very much unneeded. Unless you are claiming our security is so poor, that without the torture they would have succeeded? Which one is it? That its so great nothing can get by us, or that its so poor, our only option is to torture people in hopes to get the needed information?

You always make such extreme exaggeration. An attack that would maybe kill a few hundred are nuclear bombs, and using psychological manipulation is giving them ice cream?

Anyway, if they had my daughter in that situation. I would leave. Its entirely possible I might do what you said I would do, however I know better than to let the anger cloud my mind. I would leave and let someone who can look at it objectively do the interrogation. Not only because its the right thing to do morally, but also because it what is most likely to get my daughter back in the end.

Originally Posted by Alric

If our security is so great, then why do we need to torture people? It is very much unneeded.

We waterboarded, not tortured, THREE terrorist leaders. It was part of our great security.

Originally Posted by Alric

You always make such extreme exaggeration. An attack that would maybe kill a few hundred are nuclear bombs, and using psychological manipulation is giving them ice cream?

No. A nuke can kill an entire city. If set off in New York, it would kill 12 million and make the city uninhabitable for years.

Like I said, the ice cream manipulation does not work on the strong ones.

Originally Posted by Alric

Anyway, if they had my daughter in that situation. I would leave. Its entirely possible I might do what you said I would do, however I know better than to let the anger cloud my mind. I would leave and let someone who can look at it objectively do the interrogation. Not only because its the right thing to do morally, but also because it what is most likely to get my daughter back in the end.

The scenario involved two choices, not a third. You have to act right away. If the kidnapper is as strong as KSM, the ice cream games will not work on him. You will have to scare the ever living bejesus out of him.

That is just your opinion. You don't think the other methods will work, and you think torture will. I am not exactly sure what your opinion is based on. However I do know most experts believe that you are wrong, and that the other methods are far superior to torture and scaring the person half to death.

As for you nuclear bomb theory. There are serious flaws to it. The first being that the terrorists have no way to get a nuclear bomb. The second is they have no way to sneak it into the city, to arm it, or to deploy it. Even if you ignore all that, the most likely situation is a dirty nuke which only blows up a couple of blocks not the entire city. But the chances of that is even highly unlikely.

I mean if entire country using all its resources can not make a nuclear bomb, how do you think some terrorists are going to get one? Its not going to happen. People who are worried about a nuclear bomb going off in a US city from a terrorist attack are just paranoid. There is no information to support such a thing happening. Its not even a risk.