Thread: Joe Stack and the 2010 Austin Plane Crash

I have been considering moving to Austin for a while because it is like New Orleans... except safe. I was just there for Thanksgiving and the next few days. I walked all over the downtown/university area two days in a row. Despite the insane incident today, I love Austin.

I agree with the guy that we need to look into other ways of taxation, but he should have learned from 9/11 that flying an airplane into a building with people in it is no way to win over the American public. It can only backfire. Now the left is going to call every libertarian a terrorist or terrorist lover every time there is mention of changing the American tax system.

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

I have been considering moving to Austin for a while because it is like New Orleans... except safe. I was just there for Thanksgiving and the next few days. I walked all over the downtown/university area two days in a row. Despite the insane incident today, I love Austin.

Hah, really? To think we could have brushed past each other and not even known it...

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

I agree with the guy that we need to look into other ways of taxation, but he should have learned from 9/11 that flying an airplane into a building with people in it is no way to win over the American public. It can only backfire. Now the left is going to call every libertarian a terrorist or terrorist lover every time there is mention of changing the American tax system.

I dunno. He seemed to have some pretty pro-socialist ideals from what I read in that letter.

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

I have been considering moving to Austin for a while because it is like New Orleans... except safe. I was just there for Thanksgiving and the next few days. I walked all over the downtown/university area two days in a row. Despite the insane incident today, I love Austin.

I agree with the guy that we need to look into other ways of taxation, but he should have learned from 9/11 that flying an airplane into a building with people in it is no way to win over the American public. It can only backfire. Now the left is going to call every libertarian a terrorist or terrorist lover every time there is mention of changing the American tax system.

My first instinct, with limited information, was to assume this was an incident of right-wing terrorism to be added to the Holocaust Museum shooter and the Kansas doctor-killer, but the letter makes it pretty clear that this guy was largely in line with the professed agenda of the current administration, but frustrated with the innate tendencies of entrenched bureaucracies and the outsized influence of the corporate elite in this country, as were those of us who protested the policies of the previous administration.

I hope there won't be too great an effort to conflate this man's personal setbacks vis-a-vis the tax codes with Libertarianism, but ultimately I think you're worrying about nothing, because this was a white guy who owned an airplane, and to the American public, that will make all the difference. You should worry more about him being raised up erroneously as a hero of the Tea Party movement.

Originally Posted by Taosaur

Tea Party movement.

You'd be surprised to see how many libertarians hate the Tea Party movement.

Either way, I don't think libertarians have anything to worry about.

I didn't read the letter. I assumed he was a libertarian because he hated the IRS enough to fly an airplane into one of their major buildings. That seemed to have Tea Party written all over it. He's the first socialist I have ever heard of who felt that way.

BLUELINE, why do some libertarians hate the Tea Party movement? I have wondered for a while why Ron Paul won't show up for one and give a speech.

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

I didn't read the letter. I assumed he was a libertarian because he hated the IRS enough to fly an airplane into one of their major buildings. That seemed to have Tea Party written all over it. He's the first socialist I have ever heard of who felt that way.

He did complain about the tax system and the government itself, along with its bailout policies and, of course, corporations. Overall I actually liked where he was going (in his ideas, not the fact that he flew a plane into an IRS building) until the end where he wrote this gem:

The communist creed: From each according to his ability, to each according to his need.

The capitalist creed: From each according to his gullibility, to each according to his greed.

BLUELINE, why do some libertarians hate the Tea Party movement? I have wondered for a while why Ron Paul won't show up for one and give a speech.

It may have started out as a libertarian/constitutionalist movement, but it was rather quickly turned into a Republican movement, filled with lip-service and inconsistency. I mean, Sarah Palin spoke at one of the Tea Party conventions...

I don't know; to me, the movement isn't really special anymore, since it's been taken over by Republicans trying to gain ground against the Democrats.

Strange that there were no "tea parties" during the Bush years, hm?

Joe Stack is an example of how most americans are feeling about the gov, especially the IRS and government corruption. They try to make his letter sound crazy and out of order but i have read it a number of times and he seems to be pretty cognitive if you ask me. the tea party has been taken over by the neo cons and thats pretty obvious as well. WAKE UP PEOPLE ITS COMING. (not a threat from me but just a warning that i come to from the events of recent and the basic FEELING a lot of people have.

I think it was only a matter of time before something like this happened and we can probably expect an escalation of these sorts of things in the near future if the country remains on the same track it is on now. What saddens me is that this first visible event of this nature was so misguided. Any real attempt at drastic change from a populist perspective cannot sacrifice innocent lives and expect the cause to gain meaningful traction.

Originally Posted by BLUELINE976

You'd be surprised to see how many libertarians hate the Tea Party movement.

Either way, I don't think libertarians have anything to worry about.

Damn right, to me it seems most tea party fools are brainwashed hijacked neo-conned lemmings.

Half of them love sarah palin the neo-con-nazi.

Libertarian tea party? yea right


To me it seems this guy just flipped, its a shame he didn't crash the thing into a more important building such as the federal reserve.


Stonedape, i think carlin was right....protesting and whining like brats WILL NOT change a freaking thing, its a waste of time because the elites don't give two shits about the world and its inhabitants.

The elites care about money and power..nothing more.

Massive bloodshed of rich elitists is what george carlin was for, and I think he was on the right track.

I mean cmon, the 'system' we are dealing with is responsible for the deaths of MILLIONS UPON MILLIONS of innocent human beings, and then I hear all these fools talk about peaceful protest...grow some balls!

I am not saying go crash planes into buildings or attacking the feds but im saying, FORGET PROTESTS, they are useless.


What im trying to say is that if you're door is busted down one day by government cronies, don't sit there and take it like a bitch, fight back and never surrender.

Don't start the fight either, let those scumbags start the fight, so they are the ones to blame not innocent people who just want to fucking live their lives out in TRUE FREEDOM not a quasi 1984 freedom.

I don't know how I missed the tea party going to shit, I guess I should watch more news.

Actually I think Carlin thought that we will see massive bloodshed of normal people in the near future. He probably wanted to see "elites" being killed, but that wouldn't change the structure, it would merely open up slots for new assholes.

In order for the structure to change people need to experience the violence inherit in the system first hand. In other words the governments wrath would need to be directed at it's own people. It already is in some ways like taxation, but it's a very low heat and won't ever bring things to a boil at the current rate.

People are currently in a brainwashed state, thinking that coercive governments are the only possible kind. They think that violence is a neccessary part of any system and that as long is it is directed at someone else it is ok. This is madness and eventually it will catch up with us.

Now that we have the internet we are very close to having free exchange of information; actual freedom of speech. Because of this, more and more people will come to the realization that our government is not so benevolent as it claims. We have been had. As more people realize this, dissatisfaction with the government will increase. As this increases, we may end up seeing more Joe Stacks and more organized groups with similar motives. This could lead to martial law and eventually to mass bloodshed. However, I think that this is unlikely as the powers that be are likely aware that this will change the structure and detroy their stranglehold.



In the meantime we can at least try to keep people alert.

Martial Law is what they want dude, don't you see, thats what they want to happen so they can bring the iron fist down on us.

They need people to go nuts and go blow stuff up, so they have a GOOD reason to enact a martial law state.

I really don't think that they are that malicious. They just want to be in control.

They've already got the invisible fist on us and that's alot worse than an iron one. People don't even realize that anything is wrong. If they did they would want real change, not just chump change.