Thread: Wild's and OBE's (Question)

I'm kinda confused about Wild's and OBE's. My question is... are Wild's and OBE's the same? I'm thinking that the only difference between Wild's and OBE's is that in an OBE you wake up in your non-physical bedroom but in a Wild you are in a strange place.

And another question is. If you were in an OBE, could you do the same things in a OBE that you would be able to do in a lucid dream?

In my understanding of the subject (very little) OBE means that you are in your real room, while your body is still laying down. So you are really out of your body, which means you can fly around and stuff but probaly not change the whole room.

In a WILD you do quite the opposite, you go inside your "body" to dream about your room, which is all in your dreams/imagination and that means you can do anything.

In my opinion I think that people who believe in OBE just have them mixed up with a really vivid dream, but I try to be open for anything though .

You're going to get a lot of different answers here. In my opinion, though, they're the same thing.

From what I've read (I've never actually had an OBE, at least one that I've confirmed), the difference is that in a lucid dream, you are dreaming, and in an OBE, you're more of in a short coma, so to speak. I'm sure you know what a lucid dream is...Taking Ladusence's explanation sounds good to me. You essentially go inside yourself, and your imagination takes over. You are still connected to your physical body in the sense that you are still affected by external stimuli (wind, sounds, people touching you, etc).

In an OBE, think more of astral projection. Your consciousness separates from your corporeal body, but they are both in the same plane of existence. That is, you aren't affected by external forces acting upon your body (for instance, you can be nudged by someone and arent as likely to snap back into consciousness like you would if you were dreaming), and instead of being able to change the world around you, you can only merely observe the world around you, as it is really happening. You change to a third person perspective, from what I've heard.

I think of it this way...as it's a movie set. For a lucid dream, you are the producer. You can change any aspect. The lighting, the angles at which you view, the characters, the 'script'...

For an OBE, you're only the camera-man. You can change the angles, and see everything as the movie takes it's course, but that's about it.

I hope this helps? Again, this is only what I've learned...It may not be true.

Whenever I've WILDed (I've done it only twice), the dreams have started with false awakenings inside my bedroom. I do a RC and then get up, but find that I'm in an exact replica of the real world, which means empty, gloomy streets, since it's the middle of the night. Both times I haven't been able to change it or fly away somewhere else.

Could this have anything to do with what you guys are saying? I wan't to be able to go to happy places.

It could be. I suppose it depends on your beliefs on the subject. I'm assuming that's just more of a semi-lucid dream.

I was always under the impression that you could see your corporeal body during. A good example of what I believe an OBE is, a report I read about a supposed experience a few years ago. Someone was put under during a surgery. I can't remember the time frame, but soon after they were unconscious, they became conscious again, but this time from a third person view. They could see what was happening to their body, and hear the doctors talking, but they couldn't feel it or affect the situation in any way. Supposedly there have even been instances where the person experiencing the OBE has, after coming to, recited instances that happened while they were (for lack of better wording), unconscious.

OBEs aren't real.

Any discussions otherwise belong in the Beyond Dreaming section. Thank you.

OBEs aren't real.

Do you have infallible proof? Either way, the OP was asking a legitimate question, and as I'm assuming they know what a lucid dream is and what is possible, I was trying to fill in the blank of the other half with information (rather, thoughts) I've collected...

As to the other question (which I regretfully forgot about earlier), in an (alleged) OBE, you can't affect the environment at all, and in a lucid dream you can affect it in any way shape or form (in variable degrees depending on your control).

Originally Posted by DarkenedReality

Do you have infallible proof?.

Technicality, no.

But If I were to say, for example, that there existed an entire galaxy (of which man is yet to discover) that was made entirely of cheese, would you believe me? Unlikely. Then again it would also be quite difficult to prove infallibly that such a galaxy does not exist either. The only reasonable claim would be that all science has learned so far points to the fact such a galaxy could not exist (which is a much more legitimate assumption than a galaxy made of cheese). The same can be said for OBEs and other paranormal activity, why begin with a groundless assumption?

However, as much as I love chatting, this discussion really doesn't belong here.

Originally Posted by SystemsLock

Technicality, no.

But If I were to say, for example, that there existed an entire galaxy (of which man is yet to discover) that was made entirely of cheese, would you believe me? Unlikely. Then again it would also be quite difficult to prove infallibly that such a galaxy does not exist either. The only reasonable claim would be that all science has learned so far points to the fact such a galaxy could not exist (which is a much more legitimate assumption than a galaxy made of cheese). The same can be said for OBEs and other paranormal activity, why begin with a groundless assumption?

However, as much as I love chatting, this discussion really doesn't belong here.

You clearly havent looked into the scientific studies of OBE as much as you have about our galaxy being made of cheese. I suggest you read some good information on OBE and most certainly try them before you make claims.

And im sure the mods here are capable of moving this thread to its correct place.

Originally Posted by AstralBeginning

You clearly havent looked into the scientific studies of OBE as much as you have about our galaxy being made of cheese. I suggest you read some good information on OBE and most certainly try them before you make claims.

And im sure the mods here are capable of moving this thread to its correct place.

at this point there is simply no good evidence for OBE's - all the "respected" studies proved very little indeed. My 2 cents:

1. WILD/lucid dream/etc = you know you are dreaming

2. OBE = you think your body is dreaming/asleep while you are outside of it, when in fact you are still inside your mind, thinking you are outside.

Originally Posted by yuriythebest

at this point there is simply no good evidence for OBE's - all the "respected" studies proved very little indeed. My 2 cents:

1. WILD/lucid dream/etc = you know you are dreaming

2. OBE = you think your body is dreaming/asleep while you are outside of it, when in fact you are still inside your mind, thinking you are outside.

When you have an OBE (which I fully encourage you try to do using the method I have mentioned) THEN come back and tell me they arent real. When you have one, that will be all the evidence you need.

I have had both OBE's and Lucid Dreams. OBE's are VERY real and I promise you that all you need is to experience one to know this. If you think they arent real then you simply have not had one and it is ignorant to make such claims without having one - you simply cannot say they arent real. The best you can claim is that you *think* they arent real - and I would just suggest you try something I am about to suggest which is easy if you can LD.

Just to set the stage, dreams, LDs, OBEs and Astral Projections are all essentially the same - they are simply different FOCUSES of your consciousness. Think of consciousness as a continuum and at any given ptime you are focused at point along this continuum, which is normally your physical body. When you dream (just a normal dream) your focus moves to another point on this continuum but you arent aware of it. When you LD, the same things happen but something makes you aware within a dream and so you know you are elsewhere on the continuum but dont remember how you got there. When you WILD(or what I call phasing) you are aware of the transition along the continuum and you follow it consciously. The common thing people think about when the term OBE is used is actually EXITING your body, and indeed that is what it feels like - but I do not believe this to be the case. A guy named Frank Kepple over at my favorite site astralpulse.com (look at astralpulse.com/frankkepple.html) was a pioneer in phasing. In his explorations he categories various focus levels of consciousness (FoC1/2/3/4).

FoC1 - Physical Reality
{Buffer Zone / RTZ here}
FoC2 - Complete Subjective Subconsciousness (this is where Dreams and Lucid Dreams Take Place and standard phasing)
FoC3 - Objective Consciousness (this is where people go when they die and when they Astral Project) - events taking place here can be and ARE verified by multiple observers.
FoC4 - Higher Reality

When you "exit" your body you are just focusing your awareness on the buffer zone between F1 and F2. I have done this many times and verified real things. By saying you believe in LD's but not OBE's is really laughable to anyone who has experienced them because they are both simply just different focuses of the same awareness.

I dont beleive the above example is a false awakening, I think its an RTZ OBE. False Awakenings however ARE OBE's, you just arent aware of it. If you think its a FA then you are already too aware for it to be a FA.

If you can LD (which I assume most people here can do, especially those claiming OBE's arent real) then try this. It works every time for me but can sometimes take practice.

When you become lucid do your deepening exercises if any etc. Once you are relaxed stop for a second. Think about your physical body and the desire to have an OBE. What happens next for me is that I am "sucked" back to my body. At this point DO NOT MOVE. Within 2-5 seconds you should get a buzzing feeling all over your body and then possibly noises. I wait til these have subsided and I simply roll over and "leave" my body.

This is the easist way to have a RTZ OBE, especially for people who can already LD.

There are too many people in the world today who set limitations on their own level of knowledge by imposing negative belief structures without actually bothering to learn, which only serve to hinder actual truth. Always stay open minded and certainly a level of skepticism is good, but dont make a belief without actually trying to find out the truth yourself. I dont expect anyone to believe what I say but I do encourage you to actually TRY before saying something is or isnt real. Being part of an LD forum you are already in an area alot of the world do not believe in. Dont become an idiot like them by doing the same as them and not believing something just because you havent experienced.

So in terms of the actual experience, the main difference is that in an OBE you are unable to control your environment an in a LD you are?

If so, how would one go about changing an OBE into a LD in order to be able to exercise such control?

If you are specifically talking about a RTZ OBE then the ability to change surroundings doesnt APPEAR as easy as in an LD, simply because you see everything as how it actually IS is real waking life, however it is not real waking life - it is a bit further along the consciousness continuum. A common thing to happen while on an RTZ OBE are reality fluctuations - slight changes in what you see when in your physical focus - things such as reversed rooms or items from your past appearing in your bedroom etc. These occur much in the same way you can change your environment in an LD but are normally not conscious choices but nevertheless are still controlled by thought. Dont forget LD/OBE/AP are all the same thing - changes of where your awareness is focused. I cant answer fully in detail because I simply dont know the answer yet, but YES you can change things in your environment but its not as easy as in an LD, and I think this has to do with belief. If you see a crazy landscape with unicorns and fairies, its seems more logical that you can affect your environment because you see it as a fabrication of mind, but if you see your bedroom as it actually appears, its harder to imagine changing it because you have stronger links to its appearance through your physical reality- if you know what I mean?

If you see a crazy landscape with unicorns and fairies, its seems more logical that you can affect your environment because you see it as a fabrication of mind, but if you see your bedroom as it actually appears, its harder to imagine changing it because you have stronger links to its appearance through your physical reality

Yes, this is exactly what is happening to me when I attempt WILDing and experience false awakenings inside my bedroom, as opposed to when I've DILDe during random dreams.

Oh ok I get it now... thanks for all of the answers

this discussion really doesn't belong here.

Duly noted, and I enjoyed your example

Ahhh, a galaxy of cheese

I have got to visit that during my next alleged OBE

For the record I totally saw this argument coming.

Let's say for example OBEs and other astrological events are in fact possible. Sure, it would be hard to believe at first, but it's hard to argue with honest research too. All it would take would be a few credible labs to publish some kind of results (of which they undoubtedly have tried). Do you really think then they would just hand it off to the local tarot readers? Do you have any idea the kind of competition that goes on in the scientific community? I do. People would be diving to publish results! Grants, thesis papers, large scale trials, the whole deal. Not to mention the capitalistic impact and media frenzy!

Unfortunately, there have been no such results. Many a study has gone nowhere. The few with anything were quickly discredited and that's pretty much been the end of it. I think that a lot of people feel that the scientific community is "out to get" the astrological community. In reality I think its the other way around. People want astrology to be real. When faced with an ultimatum however that want overpowers their rationality.

I'm not mocking you, you're just wrong.

Originally Posted by SystemsLock

For the record I totally saw this argument coming.

Let's say for example OBEs and other astrological events are in fact possible. Sure, it would be hard to believe at first, but it's hard to argue with honest research too. All it would take would be a few credible labs to publish some kind of results (of which they undoubtedly have tried). Do you really think then they would just hand it off to the local tarot readers? Do you have any idea the kind of competition that goes on in the scientific community? I do. People would be diving to publish results! Grants, thesis papers, large scale trials, the whole deal. Not to mention the capitalistic impact and media frenzy!

Unfortunately, there have been no such results. Many a study has gone nowhere. The few with anything were quickly discredited and that's pretty much been the end of it. I think that a lot of people feel that the scientific community is "out to get" the astrological community. In reality I think its the other way around. People want astrology to be real. When faced with an ultimatum however that want overpowers their rationality.

I'm not mocking you, you're just wrong.

You cant say I am wrong just because YOU have a lack of experience. Find out for yourself. Attempt OBE's.

As I mentioned either earlier in this thread or another thread - read a book called My Big TOE by Thomas Campbell. He is a nuclear physicist.

Dont make the mistake of assuming just because science hasnt yet discovered something that it is not there. Additionally, you would be wise to also not assume that things do not exist beyond which current science can pin down and put in a lab.

Originally Posted by AstralBeginning

You cant say I am wrong just because YOU have a lack of experience. Find out for yourself. Attempt OBE's.

As I mentioned either earlier in this thread or another thread - read a book called My Big TOE by Thomas Campbell. He is a nuclear physicist.

Dont make the mistake of assuming just because science hasnt yet discovered something that it is not there. Additionally, you would be wise to also not assume that things do not exist beyond which current science can pin down and put in a lab.

One nuclear physicist does not encompass the scientific community.

Science, using their radical "scientific method" (who needs that?), and their research (witchcraft!), can't find what physics have "known" for centuries? It's not like those physics would have anytime to gain from the ignorant masses, right? Okay, now I'm mocking you.

Oh sure I believe that their are things that humans just can't understand. However, those things are so far removed from our every day lives that their effects are hard to quantify (like quantum physics, and even there we can make plenty of good guesses). But the brain is a machine, like any other machine, and thus is something science can in fact analyze. Neurons are connected to other sensory/motor systems or other neurons. If it didn't come from one of your five sense then it came from other neurons (ie yourself). It's not like there's a few neurons plugged into a magical box that no one's sure where they go.

Originally Posted by Siphorix

There has been thousands of tests and studies that show they are real, and at the same time show they arent. There is NO 100% deciding proof indicating whether or not.

There is? Alert the media! (I'm sure they've just had more important things to do)

To quote one of my older posts:

I really really hate this debate. It reminds me of watching media coverage on controversial topics (ie global warming). Often there exists a clear scientific consensus on the issue but there is always some group, industry sponsored or whatever, who disputes this, as an attempt to remain unbiased (or biased) the media diligently supports both sides and labels it as controversial. After seeing both sides (no matter how factually inaccurate one side is) the public assumes that both arguments must be valid, deciding for themselves, thus making it controversial. Economists call this a self fulfilling prophecy. I'm sure you can see why.

However this only barely applies as this is the only place I ever have to debate this. I'd say it's nearly universally accepted everywhere else.

Originally Posted by SystemsLock

One nuclear physicist does not encompass the scientific community.

Science, using their radical "scientific method" (who needs that?), and their research (witchcraft!), can't find what physics have "known" for centuries? It's not like those physics would have anytime to gain from the ignorant masses, right? Okay, now I'm mocking you.

Oh sure I believe that their are things that humans just can't understand. However, those things are so far removed from our every day lives that their effects are hard to quantify (like quantum physics, and even there we can make plenty of good guesses). But the brain is a machine, like any other machine, and thus is something science can in fact analyze. Neurons are connected to other sensory/motor systems or other neurons. If it didn't come from one of your five sense then it came from other neurons (ie yourself). It's not like there's a few neurons plugged into a magical box that no one's sure where they go.



There is? Alert the media! (I'm sure they've just had more important things to do)

To quote one of my older posts:



However this only barely applies as this is the only place I ever have to debate this. I'd say it's nearly universally accepted everywhere else.

SystemLock it must be so great for you to be so intelligent to know things as fact without actually putting effort in. I applaud you, I think you should write a book.

At the end of the day, I care not one iota if you or anyone else believes in OBE, but from PERSONAL experience I have both had OBE's and verified them. Take from this what you will, but I again suggest you start gathering your OWN evidence - not reading things on the internet or forming thoughts which seem rational, but actually testing this stuff out.

I am honestly tired of repeating myself to people too ignorant to look beyond their limited vision of the world - all I am saying is that without experience you CANNOT KNOW and I suggest you gain your own experience before making an idiot of yourself by arguing about something you know nothing about.

I can provide any help to anyone who would like to gain their own experiences rather than those happy to just sit there with their thumbs up their arses reciting things based on belief and not experience; so if you want to see for yourself, let me know

Originally Posted by AstralBeginning

SystemLock it must be so great for you to be so intelligent to know things as fact without actually putting effort in. I applaud you, I think you should write a book.

At the end of the day, I care not one iota if you or anyone else believes in OBE, but from PERSONAL experience I have both had OBE's and verified them. Take from this what you will, but I again suggest you start gathering your OWN evidence - not reading things on the internet or forming thoughts which seem rational, but actually testing this stuff out.

I am honestly tired of repeating myself to people too ignorant to look beyond their limited vision of the world - all I am saying is that without experience you CANNOT KNOW and I suggest you gain your own experience before making an idiot of yourself by arguing about something you know nothing about.

I can provide any help to anyone who would like to gain their own experiences rather than those happy to just sit there with their thumbs up their arses reciting things based on belief and not experience; so if you want to see for yourself, let me know

This has gotten out of hand. Agree to disagree, alright?

Let's just leave this thread in peace.

Originally Posted by SystemsLock

Let's say for example OBEs and other astrological events are in fact possible.

please tell me what "OBE" and astrology has to do with eachother?

and quite honestly, in serious astral projection circles, "OBE" is often considered to be a misconception. i put it to you that these vivid lucid dreams you have are astral projections. dream = ld = ap. the only difference is the degree of conscious awareness you have.

you guys are just closed minded dicks who are unwilling to shift their perspective "slightly" and recognize that perhaps the old mystical teachings are a little off and misinterpreted. maybe if you talked to someone who was a dedicated astral projector you'd learn that they don't believe they're actually separating from their physical body and floating around like a ghost in the world of the living.

i mean don't you find the prospect of being able to sit down and induce an extremely real/vivid lucid dream whenever you want appealing?

a lot of good people have spent a lot of time trying to open the eyes of people like you who refuse to let go of old superstitions. you make it hard for people who have radical experiences to find help and an explanation.

disgusting and conceited people.

I'm not mocking you, you're just wrong.

you are definitely mocking. you obviously think things of a "psychic" nature are bunk and you're equating this person's experience with something you think is silly. you're a bully and don't promote a welcome environment. what if someone is just confused about LD and think it's OBE or whatever else? maybe if you were a bit nicer, you could help them understand what their experience is rather than scare them off. just saying.