Rationality has no place in this thread. Just say it is the most common or widely-accepted explanation.Quote:
Originally Posted by cedward1
Rationality has no place in this thread. Just say it is the most common or widely-accepted explanation.Quote:
Originally Posted by cedward1
well, when i say "i can hardly sleep" it means it takes me longer than usual to get to sleep. it doesn't mean i wake up feeling like i just ran a marathon, just gets a LITTLE harder to get up in the morning. (which is not that noticeable seeing as i already wanna roll over and smash my alarm clock with a hammer every morning then go back to sleep.) i guess you should just enjoy this stuff, and i think i'm ready to let this go without a logical explaination. :)
Well, perhaps "simplest" would be a better word. Though not impossible, some other force or entity would require a much more complex explanation.Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowboy
I don't know that I would agree that rationality has no place in this thread. But it seems to me we've been through this before, and I think it is all a disagreement over definitions.
AAAAH...
Rationality is so confuzzling.
I lie.
I agree with you; it would be better classified as the simplest definition. Also, I feel that Atkins has already settled the rationality argument. It's a bit further back in the thread in case you haven't seen it yet.Quote:
Originally Posted by cedward1
haha... I was totally thinking this to myself.. Thanks :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowboy
Sorry about that... I've pretty much been guessing what theses terms mean based off peoples dream journals. Is there a wiki where I can get clued in on the definitions and explanations of these terms?Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowboy
Get ready for another facepalm moment!... Yes; it's at the top of the page, right next to the "Dream Journal" tab.Quote:
Originally Posted by tokolak
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_3mACnZBMOn...leFacePalm.jpg
This isn't my day is it... I guess I should read it before I start sounding more dense.
Yes, that would be advised.Quote:
Originally Posted by tokolak
what he said made perfect sense to me, i don't understand why everyone would be calling the poor fella stupid.
I never said he was stupid, I just said he should try to learn his terms before he posts. It made sense to me, too, but it doesn't work with what Hyu was describing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wristblade56
well it just sorta looked like it... i'm a naturally lazy person, so i'm just gonna avoid an argument here, apologize for any offense, and leave it at that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowboy
In the Western World, we are taught to believe that all dreams are just figments of our imaginations. We just accept this idea blindly.
(Is this what you were referring to, Snowboy?)Quote:
I have been a member of dreamviews for a while now. I have hours of personal research + about 80 Lucid Dreams to my experience. I am blown away by your post. So first of all let me comment on some of the things that have been said here. Logic has no place in this forum. Go ask your neighbor if having out of body experiences and being able to control that is logical or if he thinks it is "rational" to believe this is possible? Lets see how rational things become in anyone's eyes at the point you start telling everyone you know about these experiences? Second of all, for someone who has VERY LITTLE lucid experience to tell you how you need be more realistic and "rational" about how you perceive the dream world and/or the characters in it is a joke. You have more experience yet someone with far less gives you advice in a way that sounds as they know better? lol. We are all here to offer our opinions and help to one another, but to outwardly suggest that a certain idea or philosophy is not rational is an ignorant way to position one's self. The very topic we speak of is not rational to most people. The capabilities of the dream world are very open not only to interpretation but to possibility.
I have to respectfully disagree here. To say that logic and rationality has no place in this forum is to say we will no longer be looking for answers. How can you explain a phenomenon if you don't take all the evidence into account and base your judgement on what is most supported by facts? If we all just give our opinions without objectively weighing them in a search for the truth, we can't get anywhere.
As I say, I think it's an argument over definition. Atkins is defining "rational" and "logical" as something more subjective than I am.
Now let's look at an illustration:
I wake up one morning, and the ground is white. Glancing out the window, I conlcude it has snowed. Does that mean it's impossible that someone came along with a paint sprayer during the night and painted everything white? No, but it is more rational to say that the evidence points towards the snow theory.
In a similar way, if Hyu dreams of a girl who says she is real, it is more likely that it is just a dream character saying "I'm real". Nothing Hyu has described is outside the realm of what is possible for any dream derived purely from the activity of Hyu's own mind. It would be irrational to conclude that something radically different is going on here. But at the same time it would be irrational to say that I know for a fact that nothing radically different is going on here. However, the "law" of parsimony says that the most simplistic answer is most likely the truth. So it would be rational to say that the second hypothesis is more likely.
If lucid dreaming is to ever make progress as a science, we have to have to make sure we are grounded in logical thinking. It can be an art without logic, which is all that some are after. There is nothing wrong with that. But to get answers, the best method is to apply a scientific approach. At least that's how I see it.
By the way tokolak, don't worry if people seem hard on you in this forum. You will find that people here are pretty plain spoken, and will tell you exactly what they think. Which, in my opinion, is a good thing.
:clap: Very well put, I agree with that 100%. It is perfectly possible for Yuya to be a seperate entity, but not as likely. That doesn't mean I am saying that she is just a figment of Hyus imagination, it just means that is the most likely. Why is it more likely, well because the brain is fully capable of creating very believable feelings and situations. Rationality is nothing to frown upon, and doesn't mean you are close minded, it actually means the opposite.Quote:
Originally Posted by cedward1
that's what i've been thinking exactly. cedward, you put that in a way i never could have. :thumbup:
"We are all here to offer our opinions and help to one another, but to outwardly suggest that a certain idea or philosophy is not rational is an ignorant way to position one's self."
I believe this sums up what I meant by my statement. Of course logic isn't bad. Of course scientific explanation is wanted and needed. In fact I personally look for the "logical" scientific explanation in all of this. However, the reason I said what I did was because one person in particular stated his opinion in a way that presumably ruled out every other possible explanation and in a way that Postulated any opinion other than of a scientific nature was unintelligent. There is no place in these forums for complete closed mindedness. We should allow everyone to offer their own ideas without telling them they are stupid. The most useful thing about these forums are that there are so many minds coming together with so many different ideas, opinions, and solutions that we are able to make forward progression throughout the whole forum over time. We should all work together offering our thoughts without negating the entire system. :)
Back to the original point. Lets just enjoy the stories as they come :)
:offtopic:
I thought this thread was about a recurring DC?
Right on. Hence my point of "Back to the original point" lolQuote:
Originally Posted by Caden
Update: Riding a Gryphon through a canyon with Yuya - Who was Selene?
I've had a few more cool dreams while I was gone (none with Yuya), but since I was hanging out with friends I wasn't really able to write them down.
It would have been pretty awkward to do so with them around. :/
I wonder if "waking thoughts" really do destabilize the dream?
It does make sense in some way, and it would explain why my dreams with Yuya last longer than others.
Does anyone else have experiences with this? If you really focus on the dream world, and fully believe that you're actually there, not thinking about waking life at all, will it make the dream last longer?
Interesting read...
I haven't ever entered the Deep Dreaming Sleep. But that's because I am just starting off with shared dreaming. I have only had one; hopefully I will have more later.
cool. i'm about to set out on a quest to see for myself if these places really are real.