Thread: An idea for an experiment

u'd proboly wake up before u read the card

when i master WILDs i will most deffinetly try this. this is a great idea

Originally posted by SourCherryBoy
I hope this is in the right section of the forum. I have an idea for an experiment. Take a random playing card (don't look at it) from the card deck. Put it in an envelope. When you manage to lucid dream, then open that envelope in your dream world and see what card is inside it. When you wake up, see if you were right.

I think it might work.

Here's an idea. Tape it to an outside window facing out. This way you are guaranteed you will be able to see the card. I wonder that expecting a person to be able to tear open an envelope from the Other Side is not adding an extra element of complexity to your experiment. Or if one has an extra room in one's house, the card can simply be laid face up in that extra room. Or one can go to the woods in a local park and tack the card to a tree trunk... there are so many ideas preferrable to putting the card in a place where one would not know what it was even if he were awake and looking at it, from the outside of a concealing envelope.

The Out of Body Experiment People have been doing experiments such as this for years. They succeed or fail depending upon whose scientists one is listening to. Randy and those ilk go on seminar tours about the country claiming that all psychic phenomena has been catagorically de-bunked with negative results of such experiments. But the Monroe Institute and other OBE Organizations claim positive results.

Even the Near Death people are quarrelling over whether their own experiments have been conclusively positive or negative.

I would believe in the Positive Assertions. No REPUTABLE scientist could ever be FOR psychic phenomena and they would not be questioned for pronoucing against it, so they can easily say things such as "Their Experiment proved nothing". And nobody would believe the Monroe Institute because, once they come out for Psychic Phenomena, they are de facto NOT scientists anymore. So, in our present culture it is simply too easy and rewarding to deny the Truth.

So, anyway, yes, try your own experiment. It may not prove anything to anybody else, but at least you will find the Truth.

Originally posted by Leo Volont
So, in our present culture it is simply too easy and rewarding to deny the Truth.

So, anyway, yes, try your own experiment. It may not prove anything to anybody else, but at least you will find the Truth.

Here Here!

This is a cool idea, seems like a fairly straightforward experiment, either you get it right or you dont. Doubt Ill ever remember to check a card in my dreams though

Originally posted by fersteger
This is a cool idea, seems like a fairly straightforward experiment, either you get it right or you dont. Doubt Ill ever remember to check a card in my dreams though

Too straightforward? How about having a conversation with someone you know and then attempting the same exact conversation in the waking world?

Ive tried that many times, most of my dreams are fairly the same as my waking life and all my DCs are friends and family so Ive tried to reenact my dreams plenty of times, conversations have NEVER went the same as in my dreams.

I don't mean this experiment is lame I think its good, you'll find out if youre psychic or not and there's not much grey area, its like you get it right or you dont. Course you gotta do it a buncha times.

This question was bothering me when i just started LDing. There were several experiments I performed to find an answer.

1) I've been trying to read a number plate on a random car outside. At least 3 experiments failed - number plates were just a bunch of random numbers

2)There was a girl I liked by never spoke to in real life. 2 times I asked her to tell me about herself. Both times I was very highly lucid. And both times she told me a bunch of random crap (for example she told me something like I'm 4'2" I like so and so, but actually she was about 5'6" and the thing she told me doesnt exist).
I've performed similar experiments with my father and my mother, they also failed.

3)Few times i've felt like I was sharing a dream with a special DC. They seemed aware that they were dreaming. So I asked them for their email adress. Needless to say that *all* adresses were fake! Once I even caught a DC lying to me in a dream. That bastard soon was running for his pathetic dream life

4) Several times I've read some books in a dream and remembered their titles. Googling them returned 0 results...

Originally posted by Ev
This question was bothering me when i just started LDing. There were several experiments I performed to find an answer.

1) I've been trying to read a number plate on a random car outside. At least 3 experiments failed - number plates were just a bunch of random numbers

2)There was a girl I liked by never spoke to in real life. 2 times I asked her to tell me about herself. Both times I was very highly lucid. And both times she told me a bunch of random crap (for example she told me something like I'm 4'2\" I like so and so, but actually she was about 5'6\" and the thing she told me doesnt exist).
I've performed similar experiments with my father and my mother, they also failed.

3)Few times i've felt like I was sharing a dream with a special DC. They seemed aware that they were dreaming. So I asked them for their email adress. Needless to say that *all* adresses were fake! Once I even caught a DC lying to me in a dream. That bastard soon was running for his pathetic dream life

4) Several times I've read some books in a dream and remembered their titles. Googling them returned 0 results...

so basically you just proved astral projection to be superstition. kinda like how people think gods make lighting instead of realizing whats actually happening....lucid dreaming in this case. yes?

That doesn't prove that astral projection doesn't exist; it proves that he was not astrally projecting.

Originally posted by Ev
This question was bothering me when i just started LDing. There were several experiments I performed to find an answer.

1) I've been trying to read a number plate on a random car outside. At least 3 experiments failed - number plates were just a bunch of random numbers

2)There was a girl I liked by never spoke to in real life. 2 times I asked her to tell me about herself. Both times I was very highly lucid. And both times she told me a bunch of random crap (for example she told me something like I'm 4'2\" I like so and so, but actually she was about 5'6\" and the thing she told me doesnt exist).
I've performed similar experiments with my father and my mother, they also failed.

3)Few times i've felt like I was sharing a dream with a special DC. They seemed aware that they were dreaming. So I asked them for their email adress. Needless to say that *all* adresses were fake! Once I even caught a DC lying to me in a dream. That bastard soon was running for his pathetic dream life

4) Several times I've read some books in a dream and remembered their titles. Googling them returned 0 results...

Well, many of the OBE (out of body, astral projection, soul travel) Gurus (Oliver Fox, Robert Bruce...) have advanced the notion that the Astral Plane, where it overlaps the material plane, is a close facsimile of the Material World, but many of the details become subjective... because the details themselves are fluctuating, or because the apparatus of our perceptions have trouble focussing on any one objective concrete fixed form.

I once 'read a book' about hallucinogenic drugs, which could induce a state of mind in which perceptions, while seeming real, were understandably delusional -- the grain of wood would undulate, paintings of snakes would slither, the designs on Persian Carpets would kaleidascope... but not 'really'. so it is in the Astral World -- we see things with our Minds and not our eyes, where meaning trumps reality in many instances.

Originally posted by Ev
This question was bothering me when i just started LDing. There were several experiments I performed to find an answer.

1) I've been trying to read a number plate on a random car outside. At least 3 experiments failed - number plates were just a bunch of random numbers

2)There was a girl I liked by never spoke to in real life. 2 times I asked her to tell me about herself. Both times I was very highly lucid. And both times she told me a bunch of random crap (for example she told me something like I'm 4'2\" I like so and so, but actually she was about 5'6\" and the thing she told me doesnt exist).
I've performed similar experiments with my father and my mother, they also failed.

3)Few times i've felt like I was sharing a dream with a special DC. They seemed aware that they were dreaming. So I asked them for their email adress. Needless to say that *all* adresses were fake! Once I even caught a DC lying to me in a dream. That bastard soon was running for his pathetic dream life

4) Several times I've read some books in a dream and remembered their titles. Googling them returned 0 results...

As I've said before, in the Lower Astral, where the Astral Plane overlaps the Material, we perceive more with our Minds then with our perceptions... and thus our comprehensions are influenced by subjective material.

And Angel once told me that "The Faculty most worth cultivating is the Faculty of True Discernment". I had always thought that this referred to discernment of Truth in the Material World, but in context to the concerns in this Thread, 'True Discernment' could be construed as referring to cognizing Reality without the overlay of internal mental projections.

bla bla bla, if its in your mind its not astral.

Originally posted by jay dawg
bla bla bla, if its in your mind its not astral.

Again, you are only demonstrating how much you don't know.

yeah whatever leo. you think a dream in your brain has something to do with travelling spiritually? are u insane. they are different

Originally posted by jay dawg
yeah whatever leo. you think a dream in your brain has something to do with travelling spiritually? are u insane. they are different

You see, your problem is that you believe there is no alternative to your own narrow assumptions. You might please explain why you think a dream is only in a brain. Carl Jung did not think so. I suppose you then think that you are smarter, better, and more good-looking then Carl Jung. More likely, you simply have never read the first book, and you suppose that the only knowledge that exists is the knowledge that has occurred to you naturally. Well, if Society thought that such naturally occurring knowledge was enough, then there would not be schools, and nobody would much see the utility in having all those fat books taking up shelf space.

So, perhaps you should read a few more books. Take a few classes. Get some perspective. But, at least, don't act so amazed, shocked and confused whenever anybody brings forth a concept which you have never yet imagined with your unaided and unassisted intellect. Considering your lack of education, why is it always so surprising to you whenever you are left in the dark?

Leo, you seem to have a plethora of knowledge of astral experiences and how the phenomena works (or may work in theory), but when you challenge Jay Dawg to read one of those books, should you not also then read a highly regarded book that is opposing things like Astral Projection and OBEs? Or do you balance your reading so that you are equally balancing your perspective of both sides? Just a suggestion. I think you have good points, actually. I myself do not know whether I believe in these phenomena, but I wouldn't rule it out.

Originally posted by Leo Volont


You see, your problem is that you believe there is no alternative to your own narrow assumptions. You might please explain why you think a dream is only in a brain. Carl Jung did not think so. I suppose you then think that you are smarter, better, and more good-looking then Carl Jung. More likely, you simply have never read the first book, and you suppose that the only knowledge that exists is the knowledge that has occurred to you naturally. Well, if Society thought that such naturally occurring knowledge was enough, then there would not be schools, and nobody would much see the utility in having all those fat books taking up shelf space.

So, perhaps you should read a few more books. Take a few classes. Get some perspective. But, at least, don't act so amazed, shocked and confused whenever anybody brings forth a concept which you have never yet imagined with your unaided and unassisted intellect. Considering your lack of education, why is it always so surprising to you whenever you are left in the dark?

lmao i really needed that leo. thank you very much for that good laugh

school can be good but most of it is bullshit propoganda anyway designed to brainwash the next generation of children into the new age slavery that is american economics (which i got in A in anyway, also an A in government, so i know wtf im talking about) at the time i didnt know i was being brainwashed or i would have rejected it all. im a lot smarter than u think leo. i got a fuckin A on my final exam in advanced algebra in college while being stoned out of my mind the entire class from day 1 till the final test. never took any notes or did any homework. so please dont treat me like im a fuckin moron all the time. i inherited my fathers high IQ believe it or not.

how the heck are u gonna say a dream is not in your brain? please explain. either that or come up with some more bullshit to make yourself seem smarter than everybody else without actually saying anything edifying.

Originally posted by Matchbook
plethora

hahahahaha i love that word dude

The problem with these kinds of topics is that you can't physically proove these things as easily beacuse you can't look inside the brain and see things from that perspective, or put a camera in the astral. All of these things remain theory until there is something overwhelmingly convincing. But I personally don't think these things will ever be proven, at least within my lifetime.

Originally posted by Matchbook
Leo, you seem to have a plethora of knowledge of astral experiences and how the phenomena works (or may work in theory), but when you challenge Jay Dawg to read one of those books, should you not also then read a highly regarded book that is opposing things like Astral Projection and OBEs? Or do you balance your reading so that you are equally balancing your perspective of both sides? Just a suggestion. I think you have good points, actually. I myself do not know whether I believe in these phenomena, but I wouldn't rule it out.

After one has Astrally Projected, then what sense would it make to read a book that denies the reality of Astral Projection. Such books relie on the rational arguments that such things are physically impossible -- the Religious Doctrine of Atheists. Such Arguments may appeal to those who have absolutely no experience on the subject one way or the other, but after one KNOWS, then such obviously wrong books cease to have any meaning whatsoever, except for their value as cultural curiousities. And I am not that curious.

Have you heard of Plato's Allegory of the Cave. Those in the Cave can see nothing on the Outside, but sometimes light flickers in and they see Shadows. So they believe the Whole Universe consists of these shadows and flickers of light. Ofcourse, anybody who is taken and dragged kicking and screaming out of the Cave soon sees that all those prior beliefs were the most outrageous misconceptions.

Asking me to take Jay Dogs arguments seriously is akin to asking a Man of the World to busy himself with reading about shadows from somebody who is still in the Cave.

Originally posted by Matchbook
The problem with these kinds of topics is that you can't physically proove these things as easily beacuse you can't look inside the brain and see things from that perspective, or put a camera in the astral. All of these things remain theory until there is something overwhelmingly convincing. But I personally don't think these things will ever be proven, at least within my lifetime.

ive been reading so much on OBEs and astral travel lately. i cant find one thing that differs in respect to LDing. this guy had instructions on looking at a deck of cards. he said DONT imagine the card as being anything or it will change when u are in an OBE trying to read it. yeah thats called dreaming.

he also made instruction of how an LD is just a low lvl OBE. well if u are truly wondering around in spirit form, there wil be no loss of clarity or anythng. these guys are just having LDs and adding a bit of superstition to the mix. reminds me of world religion in a way

then he went on about how you need to do reality checks and look at your hands. he said they are sometimes distorted or stretched. it only makes sense to me that if you are wondering around as your spirit, you would be one solid form of spiritual energy, not able to be manipulated by your thinking. they also speak of blurriness and all kinds of things that help prove OBEs to be just LDs

if NDEs are real then a true OBE would have the same clarity, not to be confused with an LD


also, leo vomit: someone in a cave has seen shadows many times. fire

Does anyone else just want Leo to put down his thesaurus and quit arguing?