Astral projection - REAL or MYTH ?

[Neil]

Sorry to the site moderators/admin if this has been asked before. I fully believe in lucid dreaming but I believe it is no more than a state of mind, and an opportunity to explore your subconscious. I have never "astral projected" and there doesn't seem to be much scientific proof that it is possible, other than the descriptions people have given on the internet. So I was just wondering what your views are. Sorry to offend the people who believe in it, but I feel that astral projection is what gives lucid dreaming such a bad hippy new-age image. 8) Your views would be greatly appreciated.

[CT]

[posted also in another thread but fits in here nicely] In my opinion, (Its my opinion please dont flame me for thinking i'm stating facts here... ) the connection between Lucid dreaming and Astral Projection is that Astral Projection IS LUCID DREAMING. Think about it, Lucid dreaming is not widely known, actually before LaBerge minimal interest and information. So people didnt know what it was and thought it was real, or another realm, or whatever they didnt realise it was your mind recreating it all. If you look at the ways to induce OBE's and AP you'll notice that they are about 100% similair to a WILD. I did a WILD this morning and I experienced all the things, vibrations etc and then I floated out of my body. Pretty exciting. Then, I looked around in my room and it looked very real, but I had controll... (Because I dont believe in OBE's i was able to excersize this controll, if I had believed in OBE's I think I wouldnt be able to because it was so imprinted on me by all the sites, all the signs where correct, and I believe in it, so I dont have controll because I believe and expect it) I flew my computer around with my mind, I flew into another room, then outside, (which now looked like sunny American suburbs ive seen from TV instead of my town) and woke up... short WILD. No OBE, or AP. Just an LD.

[Death-Wuad]

There have been a lot of studies conducted to show if people can remote view things. The evidence pretty much shows that it's real. If remote viewing is real, then i would assume that astral projection is real to.

[Human]

Originally posted by Neil I fully believe in lucid dreaming but I believe it is no more than a state of mind, and an opportunity to explore your subconscious. I have never \"astral projected\" and there doesn't seem to be much scientific proof that it is possible, other than the descriptions people have given on the internet. So I was just wondering what your views are. I have never experienced any astral projections, but I think the cause is "dreaming when your eyes is open", with other words; a combination with a "dream" and hallucinations, also called day dreaming. However, I believe astral projection can be the soul as well, but not in all cases. That was my views. :happygolucky:

[Kaniaz]

and there doesn't seem to be much scientific proof that it is possible[/b] In my opinon the science of Earth is tethered to such fundemental laws that are enteriely based on our perception of everday life, and therefore what we call \"science\" cannot prove such an incomprehnsible and delicate thing such as Astral Projection. For example, our science shows that there's gravity wherever there is mass. However, in Astral Projection, all of this goes out the window. There could be gravity where you perceive it, wherever a blue flying pig happens to be dancing to polka songs written by art teachers, there could be gravity where there is no mass, gravity where little flying moths are, and all with an perfectly plausible explanation that we, mere humans beings limited to our mere brains, cannot comprehend even fractionally so. I feel that astral projection is what gives lucid dreaming such a bad hippy new-age image. [/b] A conversation with an "disbeliever" Me: What do you think of Lucid Dreaming? Them: Oh, that rubbish. Load of cult stuff, crap it is. Me: What about Astral Projection? Them: Eh? What the *beep* is that? I don't think Astral Projection gives Lucid Dreaming a bad hippy new-age image. It's just because some people are so keen to stick to whatever they think is "real", when in fact Lucid Dreaming and Astral Projection is prefectly real but it dosen't happy everyday and is impossible for us to comprehend fully- but it dosen't make it not real, does it? Like a computer. You don't fully understand it, and quite a large population of the world haven't even seen one, but you don't scream "OCCULT! NEW AGE!" whenver you see one, basically because everybody else you know has one. If you lived on a planet with intelligent lifeforms who didn't know what a computer was, but a few did and used them, I reckon you'd get: "OH! THOSE COMPUTER FREAKS! LIKE, NOBODY USES THOSE SO IT MUST BE TOTALLY WEIRD!" But if they all had one, it would be: "Oh, these computers are so totally great. Yeah." You can see it everywhere. Look in schools. Everybody wears trousers. A few wear skirts. "OH! THOSE SKIRT SKANKS! HAHAHAHAH!" 3 weeks later "Trousers are so the suck. Get skirts." That's basically what I expect will happen, but on a larger timescale.

[Aneas]

Sorry to disappoint you Neil and CT but there is a distinct difference between OBE and LDing. If you can discipline yourself to truly LD then you can do the same and learn to astrally project. Unlike an LD you do not control your surroundings when you project. You simply observe until you learn how to travel beyond this plane of existence, which is a simple matter of speeding up your vibrational frequency. I tried to explain the experience as a child when I first started to experience the phenomenon. That was over 25 years ago. I am one of the very few lucky people who do not have to struggle to gain the experiences. I naturally LD and project. String theory is finally moving minds into the realm of understanding the connection between vibration and existence.

[Alric]

I am not sure about astral projection. I am leaning towards fake but I am not sure. I am not really sure how you can tell if something is astral projection or a Lucid dream. In lucid dreams just about anything can happen, so almost anything which makes up astral projection and be in a normal dream. The only thing which would prove your doing astral projection instead of dreaming are things like remote viewing and shared dreams, which people normally have a hard time proving.

[Nebulae]

IS LIFE REAL? IF A PSYCHOTIC PERSON EXPERIENCES HALLUCINATIONS THAT I CANT SEE, ARE THEY REAL FOR THAT PERSONS VIEW OF REALITY? ARE MY DREAMS FAKE? NONE OF YOU HAVE EVER EXPERIENCED MY DREAMS, DOES THAT MAKE THEM NOT REAL?

[Howie]

I have been podering this same question as of late. The more I expieriance with Lucid dreams the more I lean towards believing it. I once thought it was nonsense. I heard of this sight that showed how the government has used Astral Projection for their own purposes. In finding this I thought it would help me to believe in it more. The sight was called Far distance viewing. I started my own thread about this and there was some pretty intersting info from the responses. Astral Projection & the Government: http://www.dreamviews.com/forum/viewtopic....4783&highlight= Originally posted by nightowl I think I just found it. Here's the article, but I'm not sure if its the same one I read a long time ago. * Since I don't have any personal dealings with government officials or agencies, I can only share my opinion on why this is the case. * For me to make any further statements, I must digress a bit. Astral projection is a close cousin of remote viewing with some notable distinctions. With remote viewing, you don't have to put the body asleep, but instead enter an altered state of consciousness (sometimes even just a slight one). When you bi-locate (or as Ingo Swann states \"the immediate transfer of perceptions\") during a viewing, you are very near the earth level vibrationally, and yet are not seen by the naked eye. Unlike the lower planes of the astral which can be fuzzy and surreal, it is no different than being fully awake (the intelligence gathering benefits to this are obvious). The better remote viewers (rare people indeed) can actually interact with their environment, meaning they can talk to beings on that plane (aliens included), swim in lakes, smell food, and hear everything-- and best of all-- they can transcend time. I've been a lazy remote viewer myself, but when I bi-located I was quite shocked at what it was like. I was THERE. It was totally clear, totally lucid. In fact, when you bi-locate you temporarily lose awareness of your physical self as your consciousness is mostly elsewhere (although split consciousness can also occur). I've always wanted to travel and when I saw Stonehenge in real time, real awareness, I was hooked (by the way, the target was unknown to me. I was given a random 4 digit number by my RV instructor). Anyway, you're getting the picture on how valuable \"clear, veiled, and time independent\" awareness is. * Now, if you've done some research on remote viewing you'll eventually come across figures like Ingo Swann, Ed Dames (ex-military), and Gerald O'Donnell, to mention a few. Why are these people important to this assumption that the government knows about out of body travels? Ingo Swann boggled many minds, and especially some within the intelligence community. His history is long but he spent several decades researching and utilizing remote viewing with Dr. Hal Puthoff of Stanford Research Institute and Research physicist Russell Targ. Their work resulted in funds from the CIA that supported them (in secret) during the Cold War. During this time the government's support for the growing RV program moved from the CIA to the Defense Intelligence Agency, as well as certain other military organizations. The Army also conducted their own remote viewing for possible intelligence against foreign adversaries. All this later came out through SRI and the CIA after it was declassified in 1995 when Congress moved responsibility from the DIA back to the CIA which was seen as the \"fall\" of RV within the government). * Sections of the government and other sectors are fully aware of these potentials. To me, it's not a matter of if they are aware (since they themselves admitted so), but if they are really doing anything about it now. With the Cold War over, possibly not, but since when did intelligence gathering become a dead dog? I think with the latest terrorist events the resurgence of \"spying\" is a given. * and here's the linkhttp://astralvoyage.com/projection/government.html _________________

[pcmsurf]

i think that some people can do it but i also think alot of people believe they are experiencing it when they are really just lucid dreaming

[wer]

I think that lucid dreams and atral projection are not the same thing, or everyone would now it because theyed be like "That was just a dream" if they dreamnt about astral travel.

[jacobo]

Originally posted by Nebulae IS LIFE REAL? IF A PSYCHOTIC PERSON EXPERIENCES HALLUCINATIONS THAT I CANT SEE, ARE THEY REAL FOR THAT PERSONS VIEW OF REALITY? ARE MY DREAMS FAKE? NONE OF YOU HAVE EVER EXPERIENCED MY DREAMS, DOES THAT MAKE THEM NOT REAL? it all comes down to your definition of \"real\" -Existing objectively in the world regardless of subjectivity or conventions of thought or language. * -Relating to, being, or having value reckoned by actual purchasing power: real income; real growth. -Of, relating to, or being an image formed by light rays that converge in space. * -Of, relating to, or being a real number. * -Of or relating to stationary or fixed property, such as buildings or land. [/b] since the AP isn't physical it can never fit easily into the definition of real. if i pop a 3/8 ounce of shrooms and see tiki men in the rocks off a 3 story balcony that doesn't make those tiki men real... well we have a problem here... those hallucinations were just chemicals reacting in my brain... what is pain but an interpretation of the brain? does that make all this pain is an illusion? We barely remember what came before this precious moment, Choosing to be here right now. Hold on, stay inside... This body holding me, reminding me that I am not alone in This body makes me feel eternal. All this pain is an illusion.[/b]

[evolo]

I believe it is all true. The reason that there are non-believers is that Lucid dreaming and astral projection has not been researched extensively and is not part of the "mainstream". People think that what is in front of them, is all that there is to reality. I think that in a few years/decades, it will be a part of science class, and will be a part of everyone's lives. The word just has to get out, in a fairly big way.

[imported_Berserk_Exodus]

Astral Projection is not fake. You know that old saying, "seeing is believing". What did you think? That our concioussnesses were some sort of byproduct of the world around us? Wouldn't it be the other way around? Haha.

[Neil]

Great responses , thanks. I agree that just because something is not mainstream, it is not necessarily wrong. In fact, I am definitely into alternative cultures and so on. HOWEVER, I believe in science. I believe that science has done more for the human race than religion. Science and logic have been good at destroying religious dogmas, one by one. The bizarre thing is that quantum physics supports (in principle) remote viewing. I just find it irritating to see psychics, mediums, remote viewers and healers who claim to see "auras". They all tend to wear funny clothes and be a bit odd. Why isn't astral projection something that the scientific community respects? Why isn't it in the mainstream? Maybe some day it will be, and it is encouraging that the Government has looked into this. I also saw TV show where a healer was a former NASA astro-physicist, which is encouraging too. Astral Projection is one of those things I wish I believed and maybe I will some day. 8)

[Kaniaz]

You can see auras. Go here It's in the "books/guides" section, I think. Since this guy's wrote loads of stuff about Chakras, Astral Projection, Auras and stuff, about 500 pages worth, and he's wrote a book, I doubt he's lying.

[imported_Berserk_Exodus]

Originally posted by Neil I just find it irritating to see psychics, mediums, remote viewers and healers who claim to see \"auras\". They all tend to wear funny clothes and be a bit odd. Why isn't astral projection something that the scientific community respects? Why isn't it in the mainstream? Maybe some day it will be, and it is encouraging that the Government has looked into this. I also saw TV show where a healer was a former NASA astro-physicist, which is encouraging too. Astral Projection is one of those things I wish I believed and maybe I will some day. 8) Because the most vocal people who believe in it are kooks like that. Not all of us prance around with crystal balls and wear gypsy costumes. There's a large portion of people that lead normal lives but never tell anybody about their 'other life' for fear of being ridiculed.

[JGG]

Sorry to the site moderators/admin if this has been asked before. I fully believe in lucid dreaming but I believe it is no more than a state of mind, and an opportunity to explore your subconscious. I have never "astral projected" and there doesn't seem to be much scientific proof that it is possible, other than the descriptions people have given on the internet. So I was just wondering what your views are. Sorry to offend the people who believe in it, but I feel that astral projection is what gives lucid dreaming such a bad hippy new-age image. 8) Your views would be greatly appreciated. I'm honestly not encouraging and/or discouraging astral projection, am just an architect who had been astral projecting for many years now. That's why I can tell you it's real. Once you try it, you realize that it's not lucid dreaming, it's FAR FAR more real, as real as feeling a touch and smelling a scent. The beauty of it is that it releases you physically, even when you go back to your body/wake up you feel so refreshed. Lucid dreaming and dreaming in general involves what you may call "mental" colors and visualized conceptual geometry of things, as in things are kind of blurry and your emotions/mind are strangely unbalanced, which could be due to conscious and/or subconscious mind trying to push out to you your inner or external thoughts and desires. The first time it worked for me was after trying the exercises for around 20 days or so. The world that you go to, is definitely not built by your mind because geometry, geography, people, material, could be SO various and alien to your knowledge and are indeed extremely detailed even more than normal life. You could find out something new, people, places or some intriguing house for example which has absolutely nothing to do with anything you have seen in your whole life, hence, there is no way that your conscious or subconscious mind would be doing the trick by some sort of suggestion or hallucination method, especially with such detail and precision. The experience is 99.9 % real, you can go wherever you want, explore things, get close to objects and examine closely every single detail. Sometimes you meet people, and sometimes you might ride in in an adventure, e.g once I flew from our winter house to our summer house just to have fun and to see if i had a good memory of the road. Familiar places are found many times as this is the case when you make a clean projection (when you project over your bed or where you live). New places are found as well with different characters. As I said, it is real and it's one of the most releasing and refreshing experiences I have had and when you come back from wherever you were, sometimes you feel you just wish you could stay more (needs more concentration and exercise on the vibrations). The places you go to are known usually to have "physical priority" response to what you need, meaning : - you could go through walls or solid objects (but not always and it needs concentration usually) - you could fly (because normally you are floating like a ghost, not walking steps, and you don't TURN your head around but instead your whole perception rotates and turns same like playing a rpg game with the view maximized on your screen/not watching the character itself) - you could create fire and possess other powers . . . Anyways, that's most of it, I hope it helped, Cheers !

[gab]

Sorry, but this is a very old thread and it will be locked. OP was not here since 2008. You can look for AP stuff in Beyond Dreaming.