Thread: Dreams are real

"actually existing as a thing or occurring in fact; not imagined or supposed".

Dreams themselves are not real, but imagined. Dreaming occurs in fact.

If you meant they are as real as real life, they are not, but might appear to be.

If you meant as real as our perception of real life is, then yes, they are real.

I think it depends on your definition of what is real. If real means within the realm of the five senses, then they are as real as non dream state. You can see, feel, hear, smell and taste in a dream. In fact reality too is all perceived "in the mind" just as a dream is. Think about this...if you therefore take away your 5 senses as your metric of reality, by what other definition does reality exist? For others it might, but not for you since you cannot perceive it. So I am moving in the direction of saying the dream realm is "real". I always thought the difference was that dreams are not persistant, but some experts in LDs claim to have persistant realms they visit. So reality seems to be somewhat hard to define.

If it exists, it is real. Love is real. One cannot see or tangibly feel love. But, it is real. An idea, any idea is real. Simply because another person has not experienced it or doesn't understand it, that doesn't make it any less real. If I imagine a purple ball on my bed, it may not be physically real. But, in my mind's eye and imagination, it is a reality. Just think about virtual reality.

As others have said it depends on your definition of real, so its a tricky question. Obviously dreams themselves and what we undergo each night are real, but imo the actual images, worlds etc. are not real a such. They aren't real in that they don't effect the real world, but then again dreams can make people move etc., ugh this is doing my head in lol.

At Christmas time, do you have a real tree, "no I have an imaginary one!"

I would say... it depends on your definition of "real". However, dreams are not physical in the same sense as waking reality. It mimics the material worlds and material experiences, but it is altogether a different state of reality. It may be under the influence of a metaphysical plane of existence and we may be experiencing different realities with our brain working as a hardware for the process, but dreams are still mysterious phenomena. Some say it's random electrical and chemical impulses of the brain, some say it's part of memory consolidation process, some believe there is more to it. I believe our brain is like a gaming console or a computer system. We can have client-side "dream" experiences as well as relationship that's like online server (metaphysical plane) to interact with external elements such as probably in the case of shared dreams, but our brain is the hardware and so it uses it's own resources to help us experience these realities and tried it's best to create elements from external information it receives.

A lot of sensible stuff said above. I'd just like to add this bit:

Whatever we consider "real" is what we perceive. Whether or not we perceive the same as other people do, is impossible to tell. If someone calls out "there is a red ball", and you think that there actually is a red ball, then you assume that both of you are referring to the same "reality". But it is in fact a leap of faith, because you have no way of knowing whether you are perceiving the same "reality".

The idea of an "objective reality" is attractive, and human beings have always (well, probably) based their lives on it. But it's still only a guess, and it may be completely wrong after all. We may in fact all be lines of code in a computer program, and our "objective reality" may be a fleeting moment in the execution of this program. For that matter, our world may be a screen-saver running on God's laptop, while s/he is out for a cup of coffee.

Reality is subjective - at least if we humans use the word. For God, other rules may apply.

So are dreams real? Well, no more, and no less, than everything else in this world.

I long ago stopped referring to "real life" to refer to experiences occurring in the waking state. There is the waking state, and the dreaming state, and both are real .

You gotta make a clear definition of "real" first. (Your definition) So we can answer accordingly.

Edit: This is what happens when you post before reading others' answers

Are dreams real?

This seems a silly question to me. Of course dreams are real.

The dream world during NLD's is,to the dreamer, perfectly, unquestionably real; this is, after all, the place in which we exist, so it must be real.

Even with LD's, when we know this dreamy place is not, by our own experience, waking-life reality, we still tend to move through it as if it were real: even when we change things in the dream, we consider our actions godlike, rather than just shifting the given fiction a bit; when we harm DC's, many of us wonder if that was an okay thing to do; when we do things like flying (which can be hard sometimes as we fight a very real-feeling gravity that we know isn't present), we do so to defy the reality of the dream, and to explore a world that we know does not actually exist, yet there it is; and we get very excited when a dream seems "more real than reality," because we feel like we've created a reality that surpasses that of waking-life -- not imagery, but a reality.

When dreaming it's all real, at the time; so real that many of us also wake up assuming that it was real, that they were actually exploring other worlds, dimensions, or astral planes. Dreams, in terms of personal perception, probably outdo waking-life in the reality department regularly in the reality department.

If dreams were not real, to us, at the time of dreaming them, I really don't think we would spend so much time with them.

Definitions do not matter at all here, I think. What matters is our perception of the places we visit, the experiences we have, and the "fact" that our own perception proves them real is more than enough...just like waking-life, perhaps.

By real, i meant as real as waking life. In my perspective, this waking world is real because everyone in it believes in it, or in other words are asleep to it's non-reality. I've noticed that within a dream your perception of anything acts as the means to it's result. Alternatively, i've thought of dreams as another realm of perception, another world so to speak. Between which exists a veil, and it is there that senses are heightened to extreme extents. (if you've ever noticed sound gets a lot louder/brighter when you're about to fall asleep.) Once you cross the veil, you're on the other side and things become normal.

This other "world" imo is the fourth dimension of perception, whereas lucid dreams extent into the fifth. I think this is so because in dreams people are able to simultaneously perceive a potential of events ranging from the past, the present and/or future. Almost as if from different possible outcomes of events that could have/have happened irl. It's like exploring every possible outcome that could ever happen in any version of this reality just with the power of expectation/belief. (in the 4th dimension you can only view the past.)
Also, when you have a false awakening it can sometimes be just as realistic as real life, so how do you know you haven't had one every time you "wake up"?

"Historically-speaking, dreams of the dead are some of the earliest transcribed accounts of dream life. Aristotle mentioned them, as did Lucretius, in part to comment on the widespread folk psychology that the characters in people’s dreams actually seem to be the spirits of the departed."

just a quote from this http://dreamstudies.org/2009/10/29/v...orlds-is-thin/



Something about dreams seems more real to me than this "reality".

Well, I'd say everything, in whatever form, as long as we haven't 'made it up', is real.
But I guess what you were reffering to is, do our dreams exist somewhere else than our minds. I can't know for sure but...
I believe our dreaming world and 'waking' world is of the same sort. They both feel 100% real while we're in them.
Who knows; when we die we might look back on our life and it may seem blurry like a dream, and then once again, we're in a different "world/dream".
Maybe there are endless of these.
So, who's to say what's "real"

No matter how you dress it up, dreams are not real in the sense that they are imagined.
Would you go to a cinema and come out believing that what you saw was real?
We don't need to get all mystical about this. Real life has consequences that dreams do not. Try walking out in front of a real truck, and you are really dead. Do it in a dream and you wake up. If you truly mistake dreams for real life you need to be questioning your sanity. Yes, in the moment you may not be able to tell the difference, but there really is a difference.
Philosophical questions about whether all of life is a dream are all very well, but so far we can't prove any of that.

Saying that dreams are not real does not devalue them at all in my view.
They are what they are, a model of the real world that can be difficult to distinguish.

It is very true, that we cannot prove that all life is a dream. But it is equally true, that we cannot prove that it isn't.

The view that "physical reality" is "real", whereas dreams are not, is tenaciously held to by most people. But this is a position of habitude. It is neither based on logic, nor does it come with a proof of its correctness. At its heart lies faith. And there is nothing wrong with that. But there is also nothing wrong with taking the opposite position on faith.

Originally Posted by Goldenspark

No matter how you dress it up, dreams are not real in the sense that they are imagined.
Would you go to a cinema and come out believing that what you saw was real?
We don't need to get all mystical about this. Real life has consequences that dreams do not. Try walking out in front of a real truck, and you are really dead. Do it in a dream and you wake up. If you truly mistake dreams for real life you need to be questioning your sanity. Yes, in the moment you may not be able to tell the difference, but there really is a difference.
Philosophical questions about whether all of life is a dream are all very well, but so far we can't prove any of that.

Saying that dreams are not real does not devalue them at all in my view.
They are what they are, a model of the real world that can be difficult to distinguish.

I wouldn't be so quick to conclude that dreams are imaginary. Quantum physics says that people's imagination (expectation) dictates the result of potentials.
It's not sanity that's questionable when contemplating this topic. and if the dream world is a higher dimension of consciousness, then it explains the ability to avoid consequence by choosing a different current of events. I don't know if you've ever noticed, but whenever I make an opinion about something I am doing, whatever it was I intended always happens. (if truly believed/intended). For example, if you are snowboarding and you suddenly imagine falling, you will more than likely fall. If you imagine the latter, it will also happen.

When you die you lose all of your baggage (beliefs). In order to pass through the veil. Some say that when you sleep you die.

So in this perspective, dreams represent the realm of possibility, time and potential. Within this realm exists everything that could ever happen, the result of every choice.
Ultimately this "waking world" is just a montage of specific choices played and picked out from the infinite imagination realm (death/dream plane). Meaning that world is in a sense more real than this.


That's what i've concluded from everything i've learned regarding this topic.
If you ever get to the 5th dimension in lucid dreaming you'll notice that symbols there represent ideologies, that this world is akin to someone reading a book, and each letter representing a person. (being thought into 3d through imagination.


And after all, isn't it the reader, the viewer who ultimately makes a movie/book real? How do you know that's not whats going on right now? Daydreams are highly hypnotizing.

So when you watch a movie at the cinema, regardless of what you believe about it, the fact that you watched it made it real. Because it made you THINK of what it was portraying, it made you imagine it into existence. And i'm not talking about specific details being realized into solid matter. I'm talking about situations, chapters in a book for example influencing and collapsing the quantum formula which dictates our future.

And if you think this is all philosophical, i can prove it's not. With this one idea, you could understand pretty much everything going on in this collective reality.
Movies, books, programs of any sort influence reality at a quantum level.

here's some "proof" to get your attention to the very real significance of this.

Programmed event:
Battlefield 3, Paris mission, Nov 13, (released in 2011).

Realized event:
Paris attacks, Nov 13, 2015.



Here's another quick example to entertain your consideration:

"They Live (1988)- movie based on short story: "Eight O'clock in the morning"
The main character in the movie: Roddy Piper, died at 8 in the morning (irl) from a heart attack.

Original story quote from "eight o'clock in the morning": "He died of a heart attack at exactly eight o’clock."

Do you see the "coincidences" here? All of this was programmed and then realized by people's imaginations.
This is just my opinion, of course.

Strange coincidences are not proof. They come to our attention because they are strange, and people latch on to them forgetting that all the not strange non-coincidences really cancel out the ones we notice - it's just chance.

I agree that I can't prove to myself that all life is a dream or not, because my perception gets in the way, but as a collective, on the balance of probability, we can use scientific proof to do trials that show repeatable, predictable results. That is proof to an accepted level of probability error. In a dream, unpredictable things tend to happen that fail these criteria. One fail is proof of "not real".

I don't know why this seems to be taken like some form of blasphemy by some. It's amazing that dreams are not real but appear to be so real, or not. It makes them more special than real life because anything is possible.
I don't think it makes then any less special to know they are imagined.

Of course we are all entitled to our beliefs, but if you start confusing reality with dreams it can be bad news....

I usually think of it this way:

Waking life = external reality
Dreams = internal reality

Dreams are still very mysterious in a lot of ways, and while there is no "proof" of stuff like the dead being able to visit our dreams etc, they are still valid and interesting topics of discussion.
Scientists are not supposed to decide what "should" be true and false, they are supposed to be curious about the nature of reality and try to understand it, based on acceptable evidence.
That's why you see people like Stephen LaBerge and Robert Waggoner constantly ask themselves questions about the nature of dreams - that's the spirit of passionate scientists.

Originally Posted by Laurelindo

Scientists are not supposed to decide what "should" be true and false, they are supposed to be curious about the nature of reality and try to understand it, based on acceptable evidence.

True, but they are also supposed to use the scientific method to sort the truth from mumbo-jumbo. I totally agree that all of us, including scientists, should be skeptical and question everything, but that includes not getting duped by pseudo-science.

You can use a loose definition of real, but then what is the opposite of real?
Real and imaginary seem to work well as opposites, and I struggle to think of a more apt imaginary than a dream.

Do I believe that dreams have any more depth than the result of one brain's imaginings? No. I don't believe in any mystical dimension, but there is plenty to marvel at when considering the truth.

As stated...it comes down to your definition of real. You obviously believe that "real" equates to your aprioi assumption that it is the physical dimension in which we live. That is fine, but by your definition no "near death" experience could ever be real, even if someone truly was ushered into the presence of God and had a conversation with Him (assuming there is a God for arguments sake). Because that didn't happen in the real world. I would contend that it would be "real" even if not within this dimension. I'm not meaning to argue...just pointing out that one has to be talking about the same definition of real.

Originally Posted by Goldenspark

True, but they are also supposed to use the scientific method to sort the truth from mumbo-jumbo. I totally agree that all of us, including scientists, should be skeptical and question everything, but that includes not getting duped by pseudo-science.

You can use a loose definition of real, but then what is the opposite of real?
Real and imaginary seem to work well as opposites, and I struggle to think of a more apt imaginary than a dream.

Do I believe that dreams have any more depth than the result of one brain's imaginings? No. I don't believe in any mystical dimension, but there is plenty to marvel at when considering the truth.

I consider dreams to be real in the sense that they give us real, powerful emotions, and that they always mean something for our well-being.
I mean, if I experience a dream where I fly high above the clouds and then wake up with a strong feeling of exhilaration, then clearly I experienced real emotions In that dream.
And to me, the fact that we are aware as living beings during our dreams make them just as real from an experiential perspective as waking life, because we experience real feelings in them and can even learn things in them and practice certain skills in preparation for waking life.
Some people have even used lucid dreams to get rid of certain fears in waking life (like public speeches and airplanes), and there are even serious speculations that dreams could be used for physical healing by imagining healing substances in the dreams and expecting them to work on certain body parts - kind of like a powerful placebo effect.
And this could in fact work, because the placebo effect has been tested several times and turned out to have real effects.

Also, everything has been pseudo-science at some point.
General relativity would definitely count as pseudo-science a couple hundred years ago, and alchemy is sometimes considered a pseudo-science, even if it should deserve to be treated as real science, since it is based on the goal to turn metals into gold, which is basically just chemistry and the combination of elements.
Newton was an alchemist, by the way.

Originally Posted by Laurelindo

I consider dreams to be real in the sense that they give us real, powerful emotions, and that they always mean something for our well-being.
I mean, if I experience a dream where I fly high above the clouds and then wake up with a strong feeling of exhilaration, then clearly I experienced real emotions In that dream.
And to me, the fact that we are aware as living beings during our dreams make them just as real from an experiential perspective as waking life, because we experience real feelings in them and can even learn things in them and practice certain skills in preparation for waking life.
Some people have even used lucid dreams to get rid of certain fears in waking life (like public speeches and airplanes), and there are even serious speculations that dreams could be used for physical healing by imagining healing substances in the dreams and expecting them to work on certain body parts - kind of like a powerful placebo effect.
And this could in fact work, because the placebo effect has been tested several times and turned out to have real effects.

Also, everything has been pseudo-science at some point.
General relativity would definitely count as pseudo-science a couple hundred years ago, and alchemy is sometimes considered a pseudo-science, even if it should deserve to be treated as real science, since it is based on the goal to turn metals into gold, which is basically just chemistry and the combination of elements.
Newton was an alchemist, by the way.

Apparently if you die in a dream you die irl. Dreams are just a different state of mind, the dmt state. and alchemy is real, pyramid structures generate elemental heat that can be used to turn metals into certain powders just by the shape of the pyramid.

Originally Posted by blizzardesigns

Apparently if you die in a dream you die irl. Dreams are just a different state of mind, the dmt state. and alchemy is real, pyramid structures generate elemental heat that can be used to turn metals into certain powders just by the shape of the pyramid.

Well I have 'died' in a dream before, being shot in the side of the chest. The dream just faded to black and then I woke up, but my chest where I got shot did hurt for about 5 minutes afterwards, which I find fascinating.

Dreams are defined as series of thoughts, images, and sensations occurring in a person's mind during sleep.

Real is defined as actually existing as a thing or occurring in fact; not imagined or supposed.

These series of thoughts, images, and sensations occurring in a person's mind during sleep are actually existing as a thing or occurring in fact; not imagined or supposed. So dreams are real.

Note that all of this occurs in the mind, though. If the act of you dying comes across your mind while sleeping, it doesn't mean you actually die.

Dreams may not exist as physical objects, however they definitely exist in the sense that we experience them.
It would make no sense to claim that dreams are "not real", because this would imply that they don't actually happen, which they obviously do, and we obviously experience them and become affected by them on a very deep level.

We "exist" in dreams just as much as we exist in waking life, because in both states we experience complex emotions - the only difference is that waking life is an external state that is shared by several individuals, whereas dreams are internal private worlds.
A wonderful dream can be so fantastic that it can make you feel exhilarated for the rest of the day - especially if it is a lucid dream - so dreams are clearly a meaningful part of our lives.