Evolution of Sleep Paralysis

[Zenithar66]

This is in a way off topic, but i am intersted in what you guys think! OFF the bat, i am(as of now) wholly unconvinced of evolutions mechanisms ability to produce what we see in terms of adaptions as well as the inner workings of the cell. I am not a christian or religiuos, just a lover of knowledge and my opinion is open to change big time. But bearing in mind neo darwinism enviisions a slow tinkering over time wtih sometimes sudden jumps in speed, and that it is at heart a trial and error process and even that is a slight misnomer since there is no actual "trial" going on, that would imply intelligence! Now, first off, the very fact that sleep paralysis exists to stop us acting out our rem sleep is amazing...i mean...WOW, really think on that.. But what is to me mind blowing is that your heart and lungs do not recieive this signal that otherwise paralyis' the voluntary muscles!!! if they did, your dead .... first off, that kind of purpose and specificity is mind bogglingly beautiful no matter how it came about. but when one tries to envision a darwinain step by step trial and error process it becomes a matter of just so stories and faith imo. is there any plausible explanations out there as i have seen no papers dealing with this issue? i mean this is not trying to disprove evolution...That is a whole different debate.. I simply would like you opinions on how such specificty could evolve through classic darwinain means...even if it kept evolving over and over, we simply cannot say the specificity came until later! therefore any organisms with such a "faulty"SP system would be "selected" out and we wouldnt see it in nautre today... does anyone have any info on exactly how the lungs and haert resist paralysis? are they active in it or do they not recieve the signal?

[Spyguy]

I think they don't receive the signal. As far as I know, the organs continue to work (some at a slower pace though) and the muscles stop moving.

[nina]

does anyone have any info on exactly how the lungs and haert resist paralysis? are they active in it or do they not recieve the signal? I think you're a little confused. When the body enters sleep paralysis or, rather, REM atonia, it is a paralysis of the somatic (sensory) nerves that innervate the skin, joints, and muscles. This paralyzes your body muscles. The internal organs such as the heart, lungs, glands and blood vessels are part of the visceral, or autonomic nervous system. It governs involuntary processes such as breathing, heart rate, body temp, digestion, etc. Sleep paralysis does not affect the autonomic nervous system, if it did, you would die. Sleep paralysis only affects the somatic nerves, of the peripheral nervous system. So your muscles, heart, and lungs are wired completely separately. SP is a non issue when it comes to heart/lungs. However, when you enter sleep, your breathing does become much more shallow due to paralysis of the chest and throat muscles. This is where the "old hag" myth comes from. Some people claim that an old hag is sitting on their chest during SP, restricting their breathing. In truth, it's really just normal paralysis of the chest during sleep, but when we are aware of it, some people get anxiety or frightened because they aren't used to being conscious while breathing so shallow, so they feel they are suffocating and hallucinate an old hag sitting on their chest.

[Zenithar66]

of course i will have to do more reserach to find out if what you say is true. I mean, my whole point is that the lungs for instance are both voluntary and involuntary so howcome they are selectivly not paralyzed? and what about the intercostal muscles, if they were totally paralyzed you could not breath! interesting the old hag phenomenon, what i find intriguing is just how many people actaully reported an old hag! as in an actaul old women. i suspect alot of teh strange occurences in human history occur during this time! anyway, do you know of any reseach that shows anythign to do with the evolution of SP? thanks for the reply

[nina]

I mean, my whole point is that the lungs for instance are both voluntary and involuntary so howcome they are selectivly not paralyzed? and what about the intercostal muscles, if they were totally paralyzed you could not breath! Respiration is controlled by the autonomic nervous system and occurs involuntarily, functioning below the level of consciousness...except during forced inhalation or exhalation. The diaphragm is the primary driver of inhalation, and is not affected by sleep paralysis. Exhalation is typically a passive process and is not affected by SP either. However, during forced inhalation, such as taking a deep breath, the external intercostal muscles and accessory muscles are utilized, and during forced exhalation, the internal intercostal muscles are utilized to expel air from the lungs. These muscles are affected by sleep paralysis, and this is why you cannot take deep breaths or control your breathing while in SP. This is why people report feeling a weight or pressure on their chest (old hag), because they try to take a deep breathe, but are unable due to paralysis of intercostal and accessory muscles used in respiration. Some people even feel as if they are suffocating, because they are not used to being conscious when the body is in sleep paralysis and the breathing feels very slow and shallow. With a bit of experience however, it becomes second nature to the lucid dreamer. I used to get that sensation in the midst of an LD that my breathing is so shallow, and that I need more air and must wake myself up...but with practice I've learned how to reassure myself that I'm fine, that it's completely natural and normal to breath so slowly because I'm actually asleep and there's no need to panic. I haven't had any issues with it for years now.

[Zenithar66]

ye, im actaully totally comfortable with SP now too, infact its kinda funny that we here are striving to reach a state(sleep paralysis) that others are "afflicted " with and even take medication and some think they are going insane etc... but nice info there, though I still dont see evolutionarily how this could have evovled without affecting the diaphram. Think about the co incidence, no only did it apparantly evovle adn no affect viatl organs, but it also occurs just when your dreaming, IE your rem periods,,.utterly amazing IMO.. anywho good talkin nina

[bzteam]

I've been thinking about this exact topic during the last few days. How did sleep paralysis evolve under Darwinism? I am NOT a evolutionary biologist, nor a sleep expert. This is just my amateur hypothesis. I could imagine in a basic oversimplified Darwinian scenario where there are two groups of early humanoids, where perhaps Group A had a mutation that caused muscle atonia and Group B had no such mutation, and were prone to acting out their dreams (no muscle atonia). One could crudely hypothesize that the ones who were paralyzed during REM had a greater chance of survival and reproduction (they were less likely to act out their dreams, get themselves into dangerous situations during sleep or act out against their kin during sleep) compared to those who had no paralysis, and would, say, fall out of trees, or off cliffs, or maybe even kill or seriously injure their kin or mates while dreaming. Thus, those who had the gene for muscle atonia where able to survive and re-produce and became dominant in terms of their genes. Maybe this trait evolved at a point really, really far back in our pre-human evolution so by the time humans came around, the gene that paralyzed us during REM was already dominant in the gene pool?