Thread: Is life a dream?

Okay, I confess, you guys. I really wish that life was a dream. I hope you don't think I am biased towards my position. If life was a dream, that would be fantastic. Then that would mean my dog really didn't just die today.

It would mean that I didn't notice that I hadn't seen or heard her all day today. It would mean I didn't get up to look for her when my dad asked where she was. It would mean that I didn't find her obscured in a shadow on top of a chair in a dark corner of the house that no one visits. It would mean that I wasn't surprised by her awkward "sleeping position." It would mean that I didn't think, immediately after that surprise, how amazingly relaxed and comfortable she looked, despite her position. It would mean that I didn't actually think of taking her picture, she looked so silly, with her head upside down over the arm of the chair. It would mean that I didn't have a distantly sick feeling as I went to go get my dad and show him how funny and classically dog-like she looked. It would mean that I didn't actually say, "you think she's dead?" while half-smiling at her. It would mean that I didn't say, "Gizmo... Gizmo, wake up." and then again "wake up!" a bit louder. Of course, it would mean she wasn't motionless, that I didn't put my hand on her, I didn't nudge her, that I didn't feel fresh death with my own hands, that I didn't feel how completely lifeless she was, how unusually heavy, that I wasn't so surprised that she wasn't sighing at how tired she was, that I didn't feel the absence of any respiration.

Really, I'd love to "wake up" and find that this didn't really happen. Furthermore, I'd love to use my lucidity to let her run in open fields as much as she'd like to and let her explore wherever she pleased without getting run over by a car (like how my other dog died, years ago). I'd love to let her eat junk food without making her sick. Yeah, and I'd love to bring back my other dog and let them play together again. They were awesome, the two of them. We called them the "dogs in black."

Ahhh, where was I...

Oh yes, if this was a dream, that would mean my dog's dead body is not still in that room where I found her, right now. It would mean that this is not a Saturday night because the city doesn't have people on call now to pick up deceased pets. It would mean that the ground isn't snow-covered and frozen so much that we can't dig a grave.

So, when one of you guys become lucid, and can change space and time and fly around and all those other great things you can do in a dream, you want to use your powers to remember me and help me become lucid? Or at least do a small favor and "wake up" the still warm Lhasa-mix that's so heavy and immobile she's like a bag of sand?

If this was a dream, wonders... it would mean that I didn't feel like a complete idiot petting her expired body. And that I didn't actually think that this was like petting a stuffed animal. A large heavy stuffed animal that kind of smells. That's what my dog is now, and I'd thank you Buddha folks to help a brother out, if and when you are able.

She is half Tibetan after all. That should give her some leeway with the Awakened One.

You say she's the one who is "awake" and I'm "asleep?" Oh that'd be great! Because right now she doesn't look awake. Not hungry. Not wanting to play. Not having to go out. Not yawning. Not greeting me when I get home. Never greeting me again.

Originally posted by Ex Nine
Bells, please read my latest post. I think I've made theoretical progress.

But I probably should respond to your post anyways, since you went through the trouble to write it.



See? That argument goes nowhere because there's no knowledge to be had from it. It's totally useless. Throw it out.

You can't throw out truth based on its disutility. The fact of the matter is that we truly don't have any knowledge of the relationship between dreams and waking life, the best we can do is speculate as you have done. My statement actually was useful because it ensures that we don't mistake idle speculation for truth. I'm trying to discourage you from coming up with ideas, and the only reason it's important for me to state that we don't know anything about the subject is because your theory is materialistic, and people are pretty generally materialists and apt to take your theory as fact when it is merely speculation.

I am so sorry Ex. I really am. I emailed you too, I just feel awful.

Life is what we make it.

Oh yeah, Bells, I'm such a materialist, because I have a problem with playing fetch with my dog in my imagination.


It's okay Indie. Thank you. She was about 13, but still apparently very healthy. Very sudden and unexpected.

I didn't mean to make you feel bad, but we are discussing the large and difficult issues, and we should be honest.


Bells, I'm tempted to go downstairs and do some more reality checks. Maybe some meditations. What do you think? Is it possible for me to wake her up while I wake myself up?

Her bowels emptied. She's not the pretty relaxed sight I saw her in now that we've moved her. But I am dreaming, right?

Sorry to hear about your dog Ex..

In Buddhism there is a practice called Phowa, which is a prayer for the deceased conciousness to move on to a 'pure land', or doggy heaven in this case. I could do a Phowa session for your dog if you like? Just let me know, or if you want to know more details just PM me.

Incidentally, Buddhists tend to call our waking world a 'dream like' reality, composed of aggregates such as form, and mental factors such as discrimination, feeling, and other mental factors. All these aggregates come together in our mind and we 'impute' reality. So I would vote that life is like a dream.

I would appreciate the Phowa. I wonder, though, what would happen if no prayer was given? Does the deceased just wander, especially if they are far from enlightenment? Will she have a better chance at enlightenment in that realm? Won't she stand a better chance to reincarnate to a human and reach enlightenment through the eight fold path? Sorry, I just want to make sure she gets a good deal, you know?

So far I have been interpreting the "dream like" answer as "no," because similar comparisons acknowledge that two different things are being compared in the first place.

However, I see now that that isn't necessarily. If something is "like" something, it may that that something actually is the something being compared to. "Hey, that looks like my suit... wait a minute, that is my suit!"

So those of you who answered "dream like," what makes you stop from going all the way and saying life is a dream?

Yes.
There is no difference.
Separation does no exist in this infinite interconnected universe.
To be separate is to be god, and even it is not so as you are the everything.
.
Dream = Life, Life = Dream.
.
When the physical body dies, those who are strong enough live on in the world of dreams. Reicarnation is a combination of physical and spiritual allignment on earth.
Death = Life
Dreams = present, past and future.

We dream of past lives. We dream of parts of past lives. We dream of others past lives that are related. We dream the future (which is the past). We never dream the now, because our thoughts cannot concieve it in its entirity, so we dream the void.

dream = 1 = all = 0 = Life

Originally posted by Ex Nine
I would appreciate the Phowa. I wonder, though, what would happen if no prayer was given? Does the deceased just wander, especially if they are far from enlightenment? Will she have a better chance at enlightenment in that realm? Won't she stand a better chance to reincarnate to a human and reach enlightenment through the eight fold path? Sorry, I just want to make sure she gets a good deal, you know?

In Buddhist tradition, after death the very subtle mind leaves the body and enters the ‘Bardo’. The experiences in the bardo are influenced by the actions and experiences of the life (or lives) previously lived, as well as if the death was peaceful or not. Karma is often referred to as actions and their effects. So if you’ve spent your life with a happy, peaceful mind, the bardo will have aspects of happiness and peace (much like dreams are peaceful when you’re in a happy mood). There are some actions which have more potency than others (such as killing out of anger, or sacrificing out of compassion) that influence the direction of rebirth (called throwing karma). It is said that within 7 days in the bardo, one wakes up (or has a bardo death) into a new rebirth. It may be that if the being is not ready (for one reason or another?), they may have a mini bardo death after 7 days, and be reborn again in the bardo for up to 49 days. Up to 49 days later, they are reborn somewhere as dictated by the influences of karma. In Buddhist cosmology, there are 6 realms to be born in ranging from god realms with little suffering, to the hell realms with intense and increasing suffering. It is thought that the human realm is the most favorable since it has enough suffering to keep you motivated to find an end to suffering, but enough freedom from suffering so that we can engage in meditation and whatnot.

The prayer in Phowa is a special request to Buddha Avaloketishvara (the embodiment of limitless compassion). Through the prayer you ask the powers of limitless compassion to help all beings (in particular Gizmo) to find a fortunate rebirth, such as a human, or even better, in the Pureland of Avaloketishvara, which is outside the realm of suffering, and where they can work towards enlightenment under the guidance of a Buddha. There's a lot more to it than that, but seeing as how it's also a Tantric practices, it is said that a qualified spiritual guide is needed to explain it. There's a book called "Living Meaninfuly, Dieing Joyfuly" from Tharpa.com that would do a better job of explaining than I currently can.

Originally posted by Blulanou42

dream = 1 = all = 0 = Life

If 1 = 0, 0 = infinity, death = life. Then You = full of shit =D

Lets just say I disagree with that theory of yours

WOoooooooooooooooooooh!!!

I've just read the entire thread and this is very very intense. It's a good question as it really makes you think. Thinking is good I now can't help but put in my two cents. (I apologise in advance )

To answer the question 'Is life a dream' I feel it is necessary to apply a little philosophy, a little logic and everything in between. Any question concerning life involves...well...everything!

I will state that no, life is not a dream - at least not a dream in the sense that it is not like dreams I have when I'm asleep.

But then our dreams are part of our life and part of our reality. We eat, we sleep, we dream. It is part of who we are. We can distinguish dreaming from waking but it's
still part of us. In that sense dreams and life are one. (Before anyone contradicts me on that one I'll ask them to re-read that sentence )
Also, our dreams take from life and life takes from dreams. Life and dreams resemble one another.

Lets go further...

moving into life and reality

All that exists is here and now. All that exists of the future is our dreams of the future. Although in some ways time isn't a straight line (precognitive dreams?). (Well, time is what you make of it...)

Sorry getting abstract!

I'm trying to emphasise that the present is all there is. The past is memories - memories in the earth, in literature, in our minds.

We dream different dreams but we share one reality. But the present/reality is perceived differently by everyone. It depends on where you are standing. So you can also argue that there is not one reality, there are many. A childs reality is just as valid as any adults. They haven't experienced so much, but experience doesn't define what reality is, it defines your own reality, but not theirs. A schizophrenic sees people and talks to them. Those people are real to them.

And then there are the rules, the laws of gravity etc. Gravity exists, but we created the term to define it. Exit our atmosphere and you are floating around in space. So that rule doesn't exist in space. Expand your thinking and take into account all the other planets, gravitational pull and the sun all that and then gravity isn't one rule is part of a whole set of rules. Hate to sound cliched to say expand your mind...
But the law of gravity exists on this planet and it's different elsewhere. Hard to explain where I'm going with this. If you get it you get it. am trying hard!

The mathematics thing.

Hell, we all hate it - the theory of it anyway. But it's true it doesn't relate simply to objects. It relates to music also! Not just time, but harmony, harmonics and perfect pitch! And that's
when physics comes in...
Mathematics pretty much relates to everything. But mathematics isn't, how do you say.. solid? Don't know if that's the right word, but I refer to the existence of imaginary numbers,
of negative integers and even 0. Technically they don't exist, but they are crucial and they aren't really ever wrong are they? (unless a calculation is wrong)

Ultimately mathematics proves that everything is part of one reality. Because everything is part of the same set of 'laws'. So Gus is right, we're all part of one reality. And ExNine is right about the mathematics thing.

Hmm, was also thinking about the fact that all numbers are infinite. There is an infinity between 1 and 2. Between touching someone or something. And yet we cross that infinity every day... Don't know if that's relevant, but I like the thought.

And Science. Science is not absolute. Science is forever evolving isn't it? We don't know everything. Scientists don't know everything - they are still trying to make sense of the world.

Meaning in life. What is meaning? why do we want meaning. When you understand you don't need 'meaning' or that there isn't a definitive 'meaning' of life you gain peace
and acceptance. Kinda abstract, but as soon as you stop searching, as soon as you don't need to search, there is no 'empty hole' of sorts in your soul.

That's the whole point in buddhism really...Enlightenment is simply being aware, existing in the moment and seeing things as they really are. Easier said than done. Am not sure if my description is quite right, but the theory behind being enlightened is actually very simple.

Sorry if my thoughts seem scattered - that's because they are!

I often ignore small details and make gross errors of fact (very frequently). I think of
the big picture. But the small questions help to solidify or (as is sometimes the case) demolish my perceptions. I think we should never place too much importance on our own opinions (easier said than done). Open-mindedness is not believing 'life is a dream'. Open-mindedness is knowing you can be proved wrong. So please feel free to do so!

I like what neuro said about this question not mattering. Because the question
is almost irrelevant in a sense. For the person living in the box the science of the outside world is irrelevant, but it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. So even if we were being dreamed it doesn't matter, it is irrelevant.

So, back to reality (haha). If I take this computer screen as example, I know for a fact that this screen is an illusion. It is a bunch of wires and chips and whatnot with electic circuiting and it creates this illusion. However, for all intents and purpose the screen is real and the documents and windows are real. They may be 'imaginary' but they are a medium through which I can work.

I forget who said this in the forum about Gus being on a limb and Ex Nine being by the trunk. Very good analogy! Neither Gus or Nine are wrong (at least I can't see any way of proving them wrong). But, of course, it is the same tree isn't it?

As far as bending the rules goes and in waking life, well why not? As for myself I will use the tools I've been given and try to attain lucidity of mind both in dream and in waking life. (I refer to lucidity as in clarity of thought etc)

I apologise for my mind vomit, but I just had to let it all come out

I can now rest easy tonight!

I haven't read through the entire topic yet, but my opinion from a scientific point of view is the following. try following my train of thought and tell me what you guys think. it takes a bit of concentration but its down to earth enough to understand.

Based on the fact that all individuals have the same perceptions in the material world, meaning we all sense & experience the same, it is safe to conclude that there has to be a reality out there. so, if by life being a dream you mean life being unreal, with no materialistic existence outside of your own head, I will disagree.

However, we sense & experience the world the same, but that's because we all have the same sensory organs and neurological programming. science is accepting that our brain makes up the world for us. it manipulates the sensory input. basically that means that we don't see with our eyes, we see with our mind. so, if by dreaming you mean experiencing a mental made up state of mind differing from reality (I don't know how else to put it), then yes, life is a dream.

EDIT: I answered NO, because i suspected your question to mean if i though that life was nothing but an illusion, something that you make up and does not exist. that, i do not believe. i do believe that we are experiencing a very limited part of whats out there in a very distorted way and from this point of view i would say we are dreaming. but LIFE, life exists, it's real.

Yet if you would have asked: "is life perceived in the same way dreams are perceived?" I would have answered YES. in dreams the "you" perceives sensory data from the subconscious (the brain). the same applies when awake. when awake the sensory organs input signals (unlike when dreaming). yet not to "you". the brain is what picks up the raw signals and manipulates them before forwarding them to "you". so you are not getting the signals from your sense organs at all, but from your brain. just like when dreaming. this means living is experienced in a "dream state of mind" like i said earlier on. still with me? this is where it becomes trippy.. (stop reading if you don't like trippy)

1) The brain can be seen as an interpretation tool, bringing the outside (external) world into a frame of reference. each animal must then have its own frame of reference. some references are bigger than others. we humans might have the biggest on this planet. the bigger the frame of reference, the more one can perceive.

2) When awake, the real world is the source of external input by your sensory organs (to be put in the frame of reference by your brain). it's what makes the world real and not an illusion. its comes from outside. there is something out there.. no matter how we perceive it. its there non the less. now, what if something "external" is the source of input in your dreams as well? meaning, how do we know that dreams are not real? (a reality not inputted into the brain by the sensory organs but by something Else.. a sixth sense?) what if during dreams the brain merly acts as frame of reference (like it does when awake) instead of being the source of the dreams, as is generally believed?

3) What if we could break free of this limited frame of reference. it would be hard to do in real life but in lucid dreams anything goes right? there is no law. maybe this is the next step after mastering lucid dreaming. the next step being able to step out of this limited frame of reference.. into a beyond-human world?

Very nice