The Unexpected In Dreaming

**Leo Volont** · 12-07-2005 11:43 AM

The Unexpected In Dreaming

There is a Paradox regarding the Psychological Model that is almost universally applied to Dreaming, and that is that Dreams source out of what is called the Subconscious Mind, that is, that same mental entity out of which sources all pre-finished awareness, reflections, discernments, opinions, etc. Using this Model to describe the Source of Dreaming, it would almost be redundant to suppose that this “Subconscious Mind” could be using Dreams in order to give our Conscious Mind messages or insights, since, you would suppose that the Mind, conscious or subconscious, would already be largely aware of and familiar with its own thoughts and judgments. When a man speaks to himself, does he ever have anything new to tell himself, or is it simply a matter of reaffirming what he already must know?

Last night I had a dream which reminded me of this apparent Paradox, of supposing Dreams to source out of an internal, personal Mind – what engineers would call a ‘closed-loop’ system. What happened was that the action and details of my dream DID NOT MEET MY EXPECTATIONS. I was surprised at the direction events took. Now, you would suppose that if one’s Mind were to be the least bit integrated, and if Dreams were to source out of this Mind, then one could hardly expect anything in a Dream to be outside of expectations. One’s own Mind should hardly be able to issue a ‘surprise’. The description or portrayal of unexpected behavioral dynamics would more reasonably be supposed to come from an external Intelligence, which the term ‘Subconscious Mind’ seems to miss altogether in nominally delineating. That is why I prefer to use the terms Collective Consciousness (to go along with Carl Jung) or Higher Mind because the term has occurred in more than a few New Age discourses.

In this one particular dream, a Regiment to which I apparently belonged was being deployed and positioned for Battle. The Standard Bearer struck his spot and the Formation was to form up beside him. Although the weapons seemed to be from the time of the Crusades, the Standard was ultra-modern – a Panel of Bluish-White Light. I was very enthusiastic and ran up to the spot directly to the side of the Standard Bearer, supposing that I in fact needed to hurry in order not to be last to form up in line. But not only was I first, but I could have well taken my time. When I turned to the rest of the men, facing the same direction as the Standard Bearer, I was startled by what I saw. All of the other men seemed tired, dejected, and even demoralized. They were trudging up to the line and would get to it soon enough. My enthusiasm, though obviously out of place, took place amidst such a degree of apathy and diffidence so total that I was amazed that nobody even seemed to notice my sharp departure from the general heaviness of spirit. My enthusiasm and energy had not even been worth one judgmental glance from over a hundred weary faces. Well, when I awoke I felt that the message the Dream had intended to communicate was that I was very new to a very old War, and that I was a recruit among veterans.

But the instance of being surprised by the Unexpected brought to mind another occurrence when dream events defied my mind’s ability to anticipate events and behaviors by what I had come to know of Causes and Effects. In this one Dream, when I had been the Hero in overthrowing the Tyrannical Rule of the White Giants in this small picturesque Kingdom, I really expected the newly liberated populous to turn vindictively against the now disarmed Giants, now brought down to normal size – I honestly thought the mob would tear them apart. But when I turned around, I was startled to see everybody all smiling and ready for the politest and most cheerful of reconciliations. I caught on quickly enough and was able to catalyze the new Dispensation by suggesting “Let’s All drink on it!”, whereupon the entire Kingdom marched off to the Pubs, leaving me to wonder about the unexpected Peace and Tranquility.

So, in one situation, where I had expected an insane spasm of public violence, I was presented with an energetic goodwill. And now, currently, when I had expected an enthusiastic rallying to the Cause, I was met by a dogged reserve which seemed intent upon one over-ruling Priority, and that seemed to be the need to conserve all energy as too valuable a commodity to waste upon any non-essential feeling or motion.

These Dreams are showing me a complexity to the Human Character that had previously escaped me.

**voidofform** · 12-07-2005 11:58 AM

perhaps you created what you desperately *wanted* to see?

goes along quite well with the freudian notion of dreams being indications of unconscious wishes.

**Leo Volont** · 12-07-2005 01:12 PM

Originally posted by voidofform
perhaps you created what you desperately *wanted* to see?

goes along quite well with the freudian notion of dreams being indications of unconscious wishes.

"desperately"

What in the dream indicates even the slightest degree of desperation?

"wanted"

As I said, the dreams were against expectation. The dreams were not showing what I 'wanted' at all. The dreams were quite disregarding what I 'wanted'.

It is my thinking that the dreams were showing me truths that I was not yet familiar with.

Yes, Freud may not have been wrong about everything, but as for you... you need to work more on precision of language.

**voidofform** · 12-07-2005 10:45 PM

Originally posted by Leo Volont
but as for you... you need to work more on precision of language.

i am happy with the level of precision of my language.

**voidofform** · 12-07-2005 10:49 PM

Originally posted by Leo Volont

As I said, the dreams were against expectation. The dreams were not showing what I 'wanted' at all. The dreams were quite disregarding what I 'wanted'.

you wanted "an insane spasm of public violence"?

well fair enough - a bit of mindless violence is fun at times. i prefer offing the undead with the shotgun in DOOM myself, but each to his own...

**Leo Volont** · 12-07-2005 11:19 PM

Originally posted by voidofform

i am happy with the level of precision of my language.

But I notice that you cannot explain your choice of words. it is as though what I had to say only suggested to you a poem you had always had intended to write. You are pleased with your Poem, but it really has very little to do with anything I said except that the subject was somewhat suggested. You may be projecting certain beliefs upon me, in a kind of caricature, but the relation is somewhat akin to that of a Hallucination to what is actually the Reality of the situation.

You like your pretty words, but you still can't demonstrate that they apply to anything that was actually said.

**Jalexxi** · 12-08-2005 12:02 AM

I think he was quite clear, maybe not 100% accurate, but everyday language does not have to pass a logical analysis, it just needs to be reasonably interpreted.

I hardly find dreams being able to conjure the emotion of surpise, well, surprising. Seeing as they can do everything else, why not that? It's the same as with nightmares, you try to make your mind scare yourself. That doesn't work either. So indeed there has to be some seperation between the creator of the dream and the one actually experiencing it, within your own mind. Subconscious and conscious mind would be the natural place to draw this line, but that doesn't really give any awnsers.

**Asclepius** · 12-14-2005 02:03 AM

C.G. believe in the compensatory nature of dreaming and the personal unconscious. So if your ego tended to far in one direction, you might dream of something in the opposite direction.

I believe that what we think of as conscious self is only a particular focus of mental energy, there are many parts of our mind below our awareness that are active. These make up our more comprehensive and complete selves.

I am often surprised by the creative power of the dream creator. I've seen beautiful landscapes, met different people and creatures that were dreamed up, but I could not have imagined when awake.

Now I've also had dreams that bored me as appearing as poorly rendered reconstructions of the residue of my working life.

I am happier when I get a big dream, or a dream of clarity. But am regularly suprised by my dreaming.

**dreamtamer007** · 12-14-2005 03:29 AM

The surprise at the direction events or characters react can be never ending. But even more surprising to me is the self-acting or responding in a new and unexpected way. That is to say the one that is aware and experiencing these changes. The self, you and I. The one awake but now sleeping. Self-acting far from what’s expected. Self-consciousness that acts differently than we would when awake? On second thought there are moments of surprise of ones actions wile still awake but so much more rare.

**Ex Nine** · 12-14-2005 05:43 AM

I used to think this was a big deal when I first discovered that dreams were not following my expectations.

Then I realized that, in my desire to explore the dreamworld empirically and objectively, I was purposefully expecting the unexpected.

**evolo** · 12-14-2005 09:15 AM

It shouldn't be a surprise to fall victim to your subconscious surprising you.....

There are many times in your life where you must of been surprised or encountered with the unexpected. Holding a strong belief of Santa existing in your youth only to find out you have decieved is a shock that is extremely hard to grasp at a young age. Life threw you a surprise that you had no idea was coming.

This element of surprise is picked up by the subconscious and interprets it however it likes. It can be so startling when you reflect upon it, but it should be no more startling than an eight legged horse. I've often had weak lucid dreams and ambitiously thought that what ever I thought would happen; but, of course, to my surprise, I was decieved.

The subconscious picks up on every little thing, every little detail, and exagerates it to infinite extents. Having expectations or rules in regards to the subconcious is extremely ambitious as the subconcious is such a great power that no one has yet fully grasped.

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