Thread: All that happens was ment to happen, because it happened.

ok I gocha now

I liked the oracle she was funny

me=confuzzled easily thought you were trying to prove that fate was infact true, while you were actually just making the statement

But the statement \"Everything that will happen in the future is ment to happen because it will happen.\" is true. Whether or not fate does exist.[/b]

I do get what your trying to say but when you say "something is ment to happen" That kind of means there is some form of predetermination behind it right? In order for something to be "ment to be" something has to say... this is the way its gona be whether you like it or not.

My question is about Destiny though...correct me if im wrong but from what I know destiny is the path that ismost suited to us, a path that our spirit will take us down, it is not predetermined it is guided by our will.

So if two people were destined to meet, their spirits paths would closely resemble the other and they would in fact meet

now if two people were fated to meet it would mean that they were in a locked situation and they had no choice but to meet the other say arranged marriages... I duno im starting to ramble.. its my last day at werk and im startin to feel funky...

I woke up from a long dream around 1pm and i was like

ZING

I couldent fall asleep *mutter* :x :x :x :x :x

there is one thing I just realized...

I know what would happen. but i want to see what you know *[/b]

She knows what would happen but she want to see what Neo knows...

So the outcome is known to her but the knowledge within Neo is unknown, his spirit is beyond her sight.

hmmmmm

Let me try to explain myself...


A.) Everything that has happened was ment to happen because it happened.

Now. . . when i see the above line to me it is self explanitory. . . so i cannot so how it could possibly be false. Plz tell me how the above statement is false (if it is).

B.)Everything that will happen is ment to happen because it will happen.

If i died 50 years from now it would be ment to happen because it happened. I find this statement self explanitory becayse it follows the first rule 'A'. If somehow i am false in my judgement please tell me.

If i dont die 50 years from now it would be ment to happen because it happened. I find this statement self explanitory because it follows rule 'A'. Again if you see a way im false tell me because i cant see a way =/

Originally posted by Serinanth
there is one thing I just realized... *

I know what would happen. but i want to see what you know *

She knows what would happen but she want to see what Neo knows...

So the outcome is known to her but the knowledge within Neo is unknown, his spirit is beyond her sight.

hmmmmm[/b]

I wanted you to tell me what would happen if Neo told the Oracle "Tell me if i am going to take that and i will purposly do the opposite".

I know what would happen. Ohh i'll just tell you.

If neo said "Tell me if i will take that and i will purposly do the opposite".

the oracle would say "Now, you could be either lying or not lying and i know what your doing. Now that i know if your lying or not, i would tell you if your going to take the candy or not. You would prove my statement rong or right. But whether you prove my statement rong or right i still would know if you were going to take the candy or not."

I'm gona have to watch it again I donmt remember... ok this is my last post on this stuff i think we might have gone to far too fast too soon.

Ok let my contradicitons freeeeeee

*sigh* I make no sense...

Meant = fated to me.

So what you say is all that has happened in the past was meant to be because it was fated or meant to be so right?

All that happens in the furture happens because it too is fated or meant to happen as well.. this is how I am seeing your logic

I dont think everything that has happened was meant to happen...
I think somethings happen for a reason though
I didnt mean to hurt anyone
I did mean to just type that

You could say everything that has happened in the past happened because it simply happened... I dont think certain things were meant to be though

ok so if you get hit by a bus 50 years form now and it was meant to happen
A what was your geriatric ass doing in the road?
B you got hit by a bus because your were in the right place at the right time.

BUT

if you were not meant to get hit by a bus and you did you were in the wrong place at the right time

OR

If you were meant to get hit by a bus and you didnt
You were in the wrong place at the right time or the right place at the wrong time... somone please help me.... I cant stop...

Do you see what I am trying to get at....


When you say something was meant to happen it implies there was an intelligence or consiousness causing it to be so...

or

Am I totaly misunderstanding you?

So what you say is all that has happened in the past was meant to be because it was fated or meant to be so right? [/b]

No, not right.

This is the statement i made . . .
All that happens is ment to happen because it has happened.

That was my statement.

All that happens in the furture happens because it too is fated or meant to happen as well.. this is how I am seeing your logic [/b]

Yes. Or, to make it simple...

All that will happen is ment to happen because it will happen.

I dont think everything that has happened was meant to happen... [/b]

If it was not ment to happen. Then it would not have happened.



Let me try to break down the sentence... here is two statements i have labled statement A and B. For each statement i break down the sentence.

Statement A1.) All that has happened was ment to happen because it happened.

Statement A2.) All that has happened [subject] + was ment to happen [action the subject partakes in] + because it happened [reason why].

Statement B1.) All that has happened happened because it happened.

Statement B2.) All that has happened [subject] + happened [action the subject partakes in] + because it happened [reason why].


Here is a yes or no question...

Does Statement A1, A2, B1, and B2 each mean the same thing? yes/no

or *

Am I totaly misunderstanding you?[/b]

Yes you are. Keep trying. When i think you understand me i will say so

I have a way to explain the happen statement.

I think the word "eventually" is helpful. For example...

Even though we can't see which path the universe will follow (and therefore we have a number of possible outcomes), eventually time will progress to completion, and then everything will eventually have followed a particular path. Consequently, there will eventually be a particular array of decisions made that can't be unmade since they will eventually be in the past.

Even considering time travel. Whatever you changed in the past will become the new past, and eventually time will run out for such a civilization and they will then be unable to change anything anymore. Hence a particular path will have been followed, even though we can't tell what it is yet.

In a logic syllogism you can phrase it this way: If the past cannot be changed, and time will eventually end, then our decisions will eventually be unchangeable, therefore we will make a specific array of decisions.

You might say, yes "eventually," but that has no bearing on the present, where we make decisions. That's like saying that just because something hasn't happend yet, it isn't true. For example, the statement "the sun might not rise tomorrow" is true because we don't know for sure that the sun will rise tomorrow, we just have lots of evidence for it. It's the difference between inductive and deductive logic.

Conclusion, fate exists in a passive way that does not affect our control over our lives. It simply occurs using the definitions of words we have in conjuction with logic.

Please challenge me. I apologize if I sound pretensious.

Even though we can't see which path the universe will follow (and therefore we have a number of possible outcomes), eventually time will progress to completion, and then everything will eventually have followed a particular path. Consequently, there will eventually be a particular array of decisions made that can't be unmade since they will eventually be in the past. [/b]

True.

Even considering time travel. Whatever you changed in the past will become the new past, and eventually time will run out for such a civilization and they will then be unable to change anything anymore. Hence a particular path will have been followed, even though we can't tell what it is yet. [/b]

Yup. Except that even if you consider time travel you cannot change the past. Because when you go back in time, the past you get to is never your past it is another timeline.

In a logic syllogism you can phrase it this way: If the past cannot be changed, and time will eventually end, then our decisions will eventually be unchangeable, therefore we will make a specific array of decisions. [/b]

Yup.

You might say, yes \"eventually,\" but that has no bearing on the present, where we make decisions. That's like saying that just because something hasn't happend yet, it isn't true. For example, the statement \"the sun might not rise tomorrow\" is true because we don't know for sure that the sun will rise tomorrow, we just have lots of evidence for it. It's the difference between inductive and deductive logic. *[/b]

The statement 'Because it hasn't happened yet it isn't true' is a statement that is false.

I have yet to make a false statement.

So im assuming the 'that' your referring too is something you wrote previously?

This part is giving me troudle. Please explain what you mean.

Conclusion, fate exists in a passive way that does not affect our control over our lives. [/b]

Well. Fate never did have controll over our lives. Our lives have controll over fate.

It simply occurs using the definitions of words we have in conjuction with logic. [/b]

I have read the above sentence over 15 times. I simply cannot find out what it means.

Do not try and tell me what it means. It will take you too long. Because the truth is the sentence has no meaning, that is why i cant find it.

There may be only one timeline if time is linear. What if it is looped?

Originally posted by Thermonuclear+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Thermonuclear)</div>

I have yet to make a false statement. *
[/b]

<!--QuoteBegin-Thermonuclear
I have read the above sentence over 15 times.

did you REALLY read it over FIFTEEN TIMES? did you sit there and COUNT how many time you read it? if not, you just made your first false statment.


...sorry, i need sleep.

Originally posted by Serinanth
The future is clouded, undecided untill WE decide it. *
The past has happend and has happend so because WE decided it

I disagree with you, Seri. I SO disagree with you. I didn't decide anything in my past. I didn't decide to be born. That was thrust upon me by two stupid teenagers frolicking on the bathroom floor.

I didn't decide that my birth mother should run out on my father and marry a flaming asshole. I didn't decide to get beat up by said flamer every day. That was gifted to me by an uneducated, desperate woman who couldn't live her miserable life without a man. I had nothing to do with that decision.

I didn't decide to fall in love with who I did. Did my heart bother to ask me what I thought? Noooo. It just went off on it's own merry way. Tralala.

All of these things just happened without my consent. Was it meant to be like this? Hell if I know, but if it was then I think that me and a few folks upstairs need to sit down and have a real serious talk.

We don't always decide our own futures. As much as I hate the idea, fate fucking SUCKS. But then again if you believe that fate is how you decide things should be, then YOU suck because of your decisions. If you don't think the things in the past happened because they were 'meant' to happen, then why did they happen at all? Just because? Why do our paths cross if they aren't meant to? Why do things that 'aren't meant to be' dangle in front of us like a fucking carrot to a horse?

*sighs and puts on her flame-repellent gear*

Have at it, chums... I can hardly wait to get ripped into.

Originally posted by Aneas
There may be only one timeline if time is linear. *What if it is looped?

If there is only one timeline then it is impossible to go "back in time" because there would be no past to go to.

If there is multiple timelines then it is possible to go "back in time" bacause there would be a past to go to.

Either way you look at it. there is no way to change that past in your timeline, but it is possible to go "back in time" and arrive in another timeline that is in its PRESENT. then change the present of that timeline.

So, when you go back in time. You go to the present of another timeline that isnt as matured as much as your timeline. You can never go to your timelines past, because it exists then is gone forever.

Originally posted by A Lost Soul
All of these things just happened without my consent. Was it meant to be like this? Hell if I know, but if it was then I think that me and a few folks upstairs need to sit down and have a real serious talk. *

i am baffled by this statment. who do you mean by 'a few folks upstairs'?
i was thinking maybe God and Jesus, but as you have said before you don't believe in that. so by this you mean God and Jesus or your gods/godesses or who ever, are supposed to give you a perfect life? don't get me wrong, i am sorry about your past. but EVERYONE suffers. i've had a pretty tough life myself. i don't BLAME God for it. i'm sorry if i offended, i'm just confused. please elaborate?

> All that happens is ment to happen because it has happened.

"Ment" by whom? Or by what?

Meant implies a will, logic, and control.
If the implication (yes, there are lots of assumptions and implications loaded into the above statement, depending on your personal beliefs) is that we each have control in any absolute sense, then the above is a false statement (and a conceited one at that ). If what happened happened BECAUSE it has happened, that's simply using circular logic which proves nothing. I will agree that all that happens is meant to happen. But we cannot know what the method to the "madness" is without faith of some degree, since we are not all-knowing.
I agree with A Lost Soul that there are way too many things that we have absolutely no control over. i.e. birth, pain, sickness, etc. I do, however, BELIEVE in the will and the control of a Sovereign God (and thus, in destiny).

"If the Son sets you free, you are free indeed!"

I do beleive alot of life is faith, even if it is'nt dirested by one religion....That's why I never bought darwin's theory completely...I heard someone say once ( maybe it was in this group ) that for darwin's theory to be pausable it is just as plausable for a tornado to twist trough a junkyard and create a 747....Seems to me their has to be some higher intelligence involved.

\"Ment\" by whom? Or by what? *
[/b]

Neither... http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=ment

There is the definition of ment... maybe you just assume it means something else.

Meant implies a will, logic, and control. [/b]

Maybe... but im not using the word 'Meant' . . . im using the word 'Ment'

If the implication (yes, there are lots of assumptions and implications loaded into the above statement, depending on your personal beliefs) is that we each have control in any absolute sense, then the above is a false statement (and a conceited one at that *). [/b]

Whether or not we have controll my statement is true. It doesnt really matter.

If what happened happened BECAUSE it has happened, that's simply using circular logic which proves nothing.[/b]

It proves that 'it' happened because 'it' happened

I will agree that all that happens is meant to happen. But we cannot know what the method to the \"madness\" is without faith of some degree, since we are not all-knowing. [/b]

I did not understand a word what you just said . . . .

I agree with A Lost Soul that there are way too many things that we have absolutely no control over. i.e. birth, pain, sickness, etc. I do, however, BELIEVE in the will and the control of a Sovereign God (and thus, in destiny). [/b]

Whether or not we have controll the statement is true. I dont understand how you people come up with these things

Originally posted by Paperdoll EP+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Paperdoll EP)</div>

<!--QuoteBegin-A Lost Soul

All of these things just happened without my consent. Was it meant to be like this? Hell if I know, but if it was then I think that me and a few folks upstairs need to sit down and have a real serious talk. *

i am baffled by this statment. who do you mean by 'a few folks upstairs'?
i was thinking maybe God and Jesus, but as you have said before you don't believe in that. so by this you mean God and Jesus or your gods/godesses or who ever, are supposed to give you a perfect life? don't get me wrong, i am sorry about your past. but EVERYONE suffers. i've had a pretty tough life myself. i don't BLAME God for it. i'm sorry if i offended, i'm just confused. please elaborate?[/b]

No offense taken at all. To clear that up a bit, I wasn't actually referring to any specific deity or anything like that. It was more a figure of speech, sort of like saying me and my car need to have a long talk if it breaks down one day (and it does... a lot). I'm not exactly blaming anyone or anything for whatever has happened. I'm challenging Seri to explain his own words. It makes no sense to me that everything that happened in my past happened because I decided it.

Oh, and even if the gods or whatever higher power exists offered me a 'perfect life', I doubt I'd take it. That would be too boring.

Well at least somone else sees it how I am seeing it. evangel

Sorry clarification, there are expanding spheres of influence starting with
What we are directly in control of, what we can influence indirectly and that which is out of our control.

As for what happened to you, Yeah your mom was something out of your control, but your step dad, you could have had that man put away, no one deserves that... did you tell anyone?

As for evolution, they have already created the basic building blocks for living organism in labs, and they found places where this could have happened in nature...Deep sea vents.

Also I think god kicked it off and let it to its own, I dont think you can interpret Genesis litrally, and It makes sense for me... The path of life is that of growth, life as a whole... And for my beleifs, God also has us on a path of growth, so evolution and god work together for me and make perfect sense.

Remember, we are in an infinite universe 8)

We are but one tiny speck in it. That tornado just happened to create a 747 here





Thermo... ment is a suffix....the word you meant to use is "meant"




-----------


All of you are all figments of my imagination...

The average population of the universe is so close to 0 you might as well call it that...

Infinite area with an finite number of planets, not all stars have planets, not all planets have life, so there is a finite population.

Anyone ever tired dividing a finite number by infinity?



Douglas Adams rocks.

Originally posted by Serinanth

As for what happened to you, Yeah your mom was something out of your control, but your step dad, you could have had that man put away, no one deserves that... did you tell anyone?

So it would be my fault, as a three-year old girl, if I hadn't told anyone. Nice. But yes, I did in fact tell someone. All she said was "don't talk about things like that" and told me I was a "bad girl" for bringing it up. I kept quiet; it kept going on. Yeah, I can see how that was all brought on by my decisions back then. You're absolutely right. And because you and I are opposing signs and equally stubborn, I'm not going to debate this any moe. You're right; I'm wrong. Case closed. We won't really know the answers until we're dead anyway.

Edit: Woah... I think my period's about to start or something. Just realized, am I cranky today or what? =P

thanks for sharing


no really, I had an evil step-dad too...

I truly and sincerely wish you the best with that. You know, sometimes I think that stepfathers go to 'evil bastard' school before they marry our moms or something.

true...true

i just hope everyone at home is fine... i hope he hasn't released his step-dad evil terrorness on my family...nah, i think he just hates me!

actually i'm pretty sure everythings better. there is über-less fighting going on at home i'm told. much more calmness. good.

Man, Thats tough, Sorry about that. I'm glad to hear that he is uber-less evil now tho,

Cheers

Wholy crap
I wasnt gona argue yeesh
I just asked and I wasnt puting the blame on youhow was I supposed to know you were only three.

Sorry I will go hide now, there seems to be an abundance of women with rusty knifes around today.