Thread: Just A Thought

Originally Posted by Luci

We discussed lucid dreaming in psychology today, it was fun! However it got me thinking until the point that it drove me mad! Here's the thing: You cannot control your dreams because to be able to control, you need consciousness and when you are dreaming, you're unconscious.
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I believe that when you become lucid in a dream, your conscious mind becomes active, while the sub-conscious remains active as well. That's why it can be tricky not to wake up right away when you become lucid, and why most lucid dreams never last all that long -- your conscious mind is becoming active, and the natural thing is to wake up completely at that point. But you can train yourself to remain at least partly asleep as your conscious mind "wakes up".

so what you're saying is that lucid dreams are extremely short (as in, less than a minute or something) because then it would indeed make sense; having lucid dreams in the "in between" because it's not like your conscious suddenly shuts down; I'd guess that it's a process of switching.
Then, (since I never had a real lucid before) what can you do in one single LD? Not much then, right?
But the idea was Freud's, not mine

Originally Posted by Luci

so what you're saying is that lucid dreams are extremely short (as in, less than a minute or something)
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Well, they tend to be very short when you first learn how to do it, but with experience you can learn to prolong them. I'd say the longest one I've had was about 15-20 minutes.

no kidding! Cool! Seriously, if I ever get the chance, I will research this entire lucid thing and maybe publish something

Originally Posted by Luci

You cannot control your dreams because to be able to control, you need consciousness and when you are dreaming, you're unconscious. It's as simple as that, it's a defense mechanism of the brain; it shuts down consciousness when sleeping.
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This is, the case for normal dreaming, not lucid dreaming.

When you are lucid, you are conscious. (unless it's a very convincing illusion, and I'd need to see some proof of that.) It is not something that is easily explained to someone that has never had one. (Not trying to sound prejudice, it's just hard to do.)

When you consciously experience a dream, aware of the dream as a dream, it is exactly the way you are conscious that you are awake, at this moment. You are oriented to time and place. Most lucid dreams, as it seems, are very short, although I've had lucids that last, or have seemed to last, for up to about 45 minutes.

The best way for you to get an idea of how lucid dreams are, through the eyes of those who've had them, is to read their experiences.

Here is a link to my dream journal: Oneironaut's Matrix

All of my lucid experiences are in blue so they are really easy to find. Read them for yourself and you can get an idea of how long some of them can seem, and get somewhat of a feel of what it's like to have them.

It still amazes me how little the educational system knows about lucid dreaming. So much is either assumed or dismissed that is usually contradicted by actual experience.

Originally Posted by Luci

... when you are dreaming, you're unconscious. ...[/b]

The whole thing is that in a lucid dream you are conscious, while still at REM-sleep state (and sleep paralysis). This has been proven by LaBerge (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucid_dreaming for info and references).

My very first lucid dream lasted for maybe 30 seconds, but during that time I managed to lift a baby from a crib to floor and back by pointing with my finger (not touching). The second was a short out-of-body experience where I saw myself a bit fatter than I rally was, but then my spouse told me the next day that I seem to have taken some weight!

I think this has more to do with the meaning of the terms rather than the actual concepts behind them. By concious it is widely accepted that it means awareness of self, and in western society 'self' is the body. So when you LD you are not aware of your body, therefore you are not actually concious. I mean you are aware of stuff when you dream, if you weren't you wouldn't see/hear/feel/taste/smell things even though they are in your mind. So you really have to make sure that everyone is using the same terms in the same way, otherwise it could get messy.

Originally Posted by JEBOman

By concious it is widely accepted that it means awareness of self, and in western society 'self' is the body. So when you LD you are not aware of your body, therefore you are not actually concious.
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Again, not necessarily true. (I get it that you're only talking about the Western terminology, but I'm just touching on how that interpretation of "conscious" is wrong...)

In a lucid dream (granting that you take the time to actually think about it, while dreaming) you are aware that your body is laying in your bed, while your mind is racing through your dream content. Many people can feel their sleeping body, voluntarily, as they are lucid dreaming.

I began developing my lucid dreaming ability, as a kid, as a way of waking myself up from nightmares. When I was having a nightmare, and I would realize it was a nightmare, I would wake myself up by tightening and then opening my waking world eyes, purposefully - consciously. I would not be able to do this if I wasn't aware that my waking world eyes had to be closed, since I was knew I was having a nightmare.

ive made plenty of conscious decisions in the few lds ive had. And ive had lds that lasted about 25-30 min. before. So no i dont really believe that u Can't consciously control your dreams cause i have before. anyway good luck with lucid dreaming its really cool.

ps if u want to read any action packed lds look at Oneironaut's dream jornal. lol

(Not trying to sound prejudice, it's just hard to do.)[/b]

I get that, which is why I really want to experience one!

It still amazes me how little the educational system knows about lucid dreaming. So much is either assumed or dismissed that is usually contradicted by actual experience.[/b]

Definitely agree! That's why I thought it was a shame I couldn't really tell him otherwise since I never experienced one myself. Which of course also makes it harder for me to actually really and completely grasp it.
But I will take a look at your DJ and I'll start working very hard this weekend!

But thanks, this has also helped me understand it a bit more!