Thread: Lucid Dreaming: Expanding Your Mind Or Hurting It?

ataraxis, you should really take a little time out to cool down before you write your posts. (I noticed it was pretty emotionally charged)

Guess I'll try and defend my points a bit :

In regards to lack of sex drive because of lucid dreaming all the time... that is laughable. When you were a teenager having a sex dream, did you wake up and say "I am no longer horny!" You really believe that having sex in a dream would make people less horny? It is more likely the opposite![/b]

First off, I was pretty offended when I read the highlighted portion. I don't think that was necessary.

Secondly, In saying: "A caveman that LDed about sex all night would have almost no real life sex drive", I was referring to him having little initiative to work for the love of the women of his tribe.
I was only speaking from experience here (both mine, and others I've talked to), when I was having sex lucidly on a nightly basis I lost all drive to impress my real life female counterparts. Yes, they would make me horny when I thought about them ( ), but there was never that "drive" to make them want me.
Instead, that particular drive was replaced with the want/need to sleep longer in order to have more lucid sex.

So yeah, I was speaking from my personal experience there.

Who ever said lucid dreaming is a genetic trait? If you are supporting lucid dreaming as a process of natural selection, you have to prove that it is a genetic trait that can be passed down.[/b]

I based my assumption that its genetic on various naturals telling me that either their parents or grandparents are naturals as well. (this was purely an assumption of course)

Another possible (note: "possible") piece of evidence is why some people lucid dream naturally. That is, they're minds don't go into the semi retarded state that we normal people experience in all our non LDs. (I'm talking about real naturals here, the people that don't have normal dreams). This particular detail leads me to think that its not something caused by the environment, but a screw up/ slight abnormality/ imbalance of chemicals in the brain (A genetically passed trait, like schizophrenia).
I'm not claiming that theres evidence to support that its an evolved trait, I'm just telling you why I think it is.

Originally Posted by BillyBob_001

ataraxis, you should really take a little time out to cool down before you write your posts. (I noticed it was pretty emotionally charged)[/b]

Sorry if you felt that way. Someone's said that before, but to be honest I don't really get "emotional" whatsoever over the internet. Just out of curiosity (in keeping others from seeing that) what seems "emotionally charged?" But I really wasn't emotional about it. Sometimes it seems like you have to scream for people to hear you... eh?

Guess I'll try and defend my points a bit :



First off, I was pretty offended when I read the highlighted portion. I don't think that was necessary.[/b]

Well, I wasn't saying that it was laughable in that it was a stupid idea, but the fact that the horniness of teenage(boys)rs is huge... The fact is, most teenage boys have dirty dreams all the time and still seek women out...

Secondly, In saying: "A caveman that LDed about sex all night would have almost no real life sex drive", I was referring to him having little initiative to work for the love of the women of his tribe.
I was only speaking from experience here (both mine, and others I've talked to), when I was having sex lucidly on a nightly basis I lost all drive to impress my real life female counterparts. Yes, they would make me horny when I thought about them ( ), but there was never that "drive" to make them want me.
Instead, that particular drive was replaced with the want/need to sleep longer in order to have more lucid sex.

So yeah, I was speaking from my personal experience there.
[/b]

I suppose that that might be true for some as it is for you, but I still believe that most people are just as horny in real life as in dreams. And perhaps the part that seperates the dream sex and the real sex is the whole "love" aspect, which leads men to seek women out in real life. That isn't present in a dream, and the sex often comes with the love.

Originally Posted by BillyBob_001

I use 'might' so much because I want to be precise.[/b]

Huh, how about that.

his is why you can't say that REM always reduces stress [/b]

I don't understand the point you are trying to make... did I say that REM always reduces stress?

Might and close to the truth are honest ways of writing about something not proven by 100% scientifically. At least my writing isn't in the style 'Heed me, I'm the one who knows the grand truth!' like some people's here...[/b]

Sure, they are good ways of writing about something like that. But you said that you provided evidence, and Tsen didn't. Therefore I showed the fallacy of your "evidence." If you were to put out an attitude that it was simply an idea, rather than coming to the conclusion based all all those consecutive "possible truths" and then saying you have evidence and you wanted Tsen to prove his position... well, then that might have been more acceptable. And I never acted like I had the "grand truth." Really, I said why your arguments were wrong... not why mine were right. Also, it is a much different scenario when the people base their ideas on actual truths, versus possible theories based on "might-be-true" facts.

As for debunking my own argument, lol! I was typing a sane thought, you need to be able to do extensive LDing before you can be damaged by any side-effects.
Surely you if LD for 5-10 minutes each night you won't find it dangerous. I can't imagine what 5 minutes can do to a human organism... blame my poor imagination
[/b]

Uh, you definitly DID debunk your own argument. You said that LDing is dangerous when you do it a lot, but you said that people cannot actually come to the point where they LD too much. So why would you even need to mention LDing is dangerous? Here's something to wrap your head around what I"m saying: "hey, X is bad if you have a certain amount of it. But thankfully, no one can have that certain amount. Therefore... the prior statement was basically pointless."

Moreso, what are you basing your thoughts that LDing is dangerous if you do it that much? I know a guy who LDed every night... many times, and had day long or even week long lucid dreams. He was completely normal. Huh, I guess it isn't dangerous?

That's basically why all 'LDing isn't harmful' statements are of little worth. Someone who had no chance to discover if it is harmful states that there are none? C'mon! [/b]

Firstly, you never said why those statements are of little worth. You never proved that LDing is dangerous in extensive amounts. This isn't much of an argument: "Well, uh... it probably is... It would cause like, chemical imbalances... or something to do with REM."

Also, are you assuming that I haven't had lucid dreams? I have had tons, and had never got any "harmful states" from it, in fact, I've always felt better. How many lucid dreams have YOU had?

But I'm not the one stating that LDing is 100% harmful, it's others stating that they are 100% ok! That's why it looks so funny. If you decide that it's 100% ok than it's up to you to come up with proof. And if you can't, please, don't state it as 100% truth. [/b]

Sure, you can add the buffer "might" as much as you want, but you are saying that at a certain extensive point of lucid dreaming they are surely harmful. And don't you read the posts? Tsen DID provide posts - There is no difference in lucid dreams and normal dreams. Except in one, you are concious. The conciousness does not create any physical or psychological differences than from a normal dream. This IS proof. Read what Tsen said... we provided proof.

Originally Posted by ataraxis

... did I say that REM always reduces stress?[/b]

No, that was my explanation about my usage of words like might. And why it isn't precise to state that REM reduces stress, because it doesn't always do it. It was an example.

Originally Posted by ataraxis

But you said that you provided evidence, and Tsen didn't.[/b]

Did I? Where is my evidence? Evidence is something that is certain, not just a possible reason. So I don't have evidence, and Tsen doesn't.

Originally Posted by ataraxis

If you were to put out an attitude that it was simply an idea, rather than coming to the conclusion based all all those consecutive "possible truths" and then saying you have evidence and you wanted Tsen to prove his position... well, then that might have been more acceptable.[/b]

It's not my fault that you need a simple 'evidence', as you insist to call it, that doesn't involve many ideas

Originally Posted by ataraxis

And I never acted like I had the "grand truth."[/b]

I never said that, too. That post wasn't exclusively about you, it was general. When people state an opinion with nothing to back it up, even theoretically, this is what I call thinking that they have 'grand truth'.

Originally Posted by ataraxis

Uh, you definitly DID debunk your own argument. You said that LDing is dangerous when you do it a lot, but you said that people cannot actually come to the point where they LD too much.[/b]

Why do you think that people can't learn to LD 'too much'? You think people can never learn? LDing has become popular only a while ago, what we have now is just the beginning

Originally Posted by ataraxis

Moreso, what are you basing your thoughts that LDing is dangerous if you do it that much?[/b]

When did I say that I do it 'that much'?

Originally Posted by ataraxis

I know a guy who LDed every night... many times, and had day long or even week long lucid dreams. He was completely normal. Huh, I guess it isn't dangerous?[/b]

You shot yourself in the leg You didn't say any of it at once, you preferred to not prove your opinion instead, or you forgot about proof you had? That makes me very dubious about credibility of your statement.

Originally Posted by ataraxis

are you assuming that I haven't had lucid dreams?[/b]

Where did you read this? You seem to find a lot of info in my post that wasn't there.

Originally Posted by ataraxis

There is no difference in lucid dreams and normal dreams.[/b]

Except that you'll wake up automatically from normal dreams. Your mysterious friend who LDed for a week felt no different after a week-long REM? Let me talk to him in private, then, if he exists

P.S. By the way, you asked anoter person why you come off as emotionally charged. Consider what you read into my post that was never there, I'm sure it was due to emotions. Nothing bad in that, emotional levels vary from person to person. Personally I don't think it's bad to sound emotional, you only have to hide your personality if you have something vile to hide