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I certainly don't think so. It just feels the same because your subconcious is making it all so real, but the psychological effects of it are nothing. Like I said, your brain is well capable of dividing inbetween subconcious happenings in your dream and your waking likfe as soon as you wake up. Like I said, I killed people in LDs before and I didn't get any psychological problems.Quote:
Originally Posted by Who I Am
Are you suggesting every time we get in to LD we go and do things that we do in real life, but what about the endless possibilities the realization of your desires, your statement defeats the purpose of dreaming lucidly.Quote:
Originally Posted by Who I Am
To maintain “consciousness” means to maintain, morals, ethics, mindfulness, common sense, awareness, perspective, "identity" and self control.
If you can not,… then you are not in/within control of your actions…
… and if you are not,… then who is?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cathode_Ray
They are equally real, but equally different...
You can do things in dreams you can't do in real life, the laws of physics change,... but you remain the same... in a constant state of change... every choice we make, every way we turn, each path we take... effects us eternally.
I bet you don't care for that 19 page thread on how to kill DC's then :PQuote:
Originally Posted by Who I Am
"To maintain “consciousness” means to maintain, morals, ethics, mindfulness, common sense, awareness, perspective, "identity" and self control." Who I Am
I like how you ignore my whole point. Many people have killed DCs before and many people are going out of their RL morals in dreams because it carries absolutely no consequences.
And as I said, the mind can nicely seperate waking life and experiences in dreams.
"For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction."Quote:
Originally Posted by Überschall
That has nothing to do with the point I made.Quote:
Originally Posted by Who I Am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Überschall
I think there is truth to this as people do find themselves doing things in dreams they wouldn't do in RL. But you also have to take into account that most people believe that in your Normal dreams you are working out your frustrations, problems and processing what happened to you in the day. Because of this some people find themselves killing other person because that is the rage inside of them they must express.Quote:
Originally Posted by Überschall
Now in lucid dreams this is different as you retain who you are in essence. You a re in control of your dreams so you can chose to do such things. As Who I Am posted:We are aware of every thing we are in these dreams so some people find it had to do such things they wouldn't normally do in RL and this is where the posts come from asking for help to conger something, or how to change the dreamscape etc. We may want to do these things because we know it is a dream and we can, but we have a hard time getting past the part of it really being just a dream.Quote:
To maintain “consciousness” means to maintain, morals, ethics, mindfulness, common sense, awareness, perspective, "identity" and self control.
In a dream I had this morning I caused a girl to fall 5 stories and die. Before I found out she wasn't really dead I cried because even though I knew it was a dream I still felt sad that my actions had caused the death of another person or DC. When I was about 10 in a recurring dream I had I watched an old lady get beat to death because she was helping me escape the maze I was in. I have not been the same since because of this dream terror and since then I have had a hard time asking for help (even in RL).
Ok so now I feel like I am just ranting.
In essence, a dream is what you make of it. It can be something you can learn from or it can become your privet play ground to do what you will. But I will always believe that no matter if it is a normal dream or a lucid dream we can only do what we find normal and natural to be doing or learn how to over come this natural barrier we impose on ourselves. We always retain the essence of who we are as far as our morals go. We may only go as far as we are willing to go. It is all what you chose to believe and what you chose to do.
It is my belief with dreams there will never be a line of what is right and what is wrong, although people try to impose such a line as dreams are what you make of them.
Anna
Now.. I'd really like to know what qualifies you to make such a statement. How long have you been LDing? 35 years? 40 years? What do you know about it, that isn't actually you just hypothesising?Quote:
Originally Posted by Überschall
I've not been LDing that long but I am part of this community long enough and I also know some people IRL who occasionally lucid dream and also occasionally kill DCs. I don't have to be an expert of this matter to tell from personal expirience that not that few people tend to killing DCs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Oneiro
You wrote: "..it carries absolutely no consequences.."
So.. I ask again.. what gives you the experience to make such a sweeping statement, given that you have paltry LD experience?
Why would it carry any consequence if you do it in a dream? There's no known case of people being psychologically harmed by things happening in lucid dreams, because it all happens in a corner of your head that your mind shuts once the dream ends. You're not even supposed to remember your dreams, as I believe. It's something your mind goes onto when it sleeps and then shuts it down when it awakes. This is why I couldn't think of any consequence resulting out of ones actions in a dream.Quote:
Originally Posted by Oneiro
Listen.. you don't know what you're talking about. You have barely any empirical knowledge of LDing, and that being so, you are not qualified to make such (sweeping) statements. There is plenty of anecdotal evidence of the dangers of LDing. You search this forum and you'll find some.Quote:
Originally Posted by Überschall
It always amazes me that people with so little empirical experience feel qualified to make such all-encompassing statements.
I’ve whacked a few dream characters in my day, and done some things that I’m not proud of in lucid dreams. Things I wouldn’t have in real life. It still happens… I’ve always wondered why? DCs can‘t hurt me,... They are all manifestations of myself! I've tried to get better control of that part.
I've tried to let my hostilities and lusts go. It's an ongoing battle.
What you do in your lucid dreams tells you something about, "Who You Are",... and who you want to be.
I know a heap of thrustworthy people, including my parents, knowing about lucid dreaming and being into it for many years. I wouldn't lay down such a statement if I didn't know what I was talking about.Quote:
Originally Posted by Oneiro
Apart from that, going away from beliefs of moral and such, scientifical research has called it nearly impossible for lucid dreams to harm the psyche of psychologically stable people like me and you.
I'm going to stick with my belief that the expiriences in dreams are not affecting anything but the dreamworld itself.
The only one there is to love, hate,… or be afraid of in your lucid dreams,… is yourself!
What I’m talking about ,… is like having a lucid dream, inside a lucid dream, inside a lucid dream,… inside yourself… It’s the mystery of life!
I didn’t mean to stir up a hornet’s nest… It’s just my personal perspective and opinion. Please don’t see it as a threat. It wasn’t intended to be…
We each have our own place, purpose, perspective... and our own path, the "4Ps",... I can accept that. :)
I didn't take anything as a threat, I just thought I'd air my opinion, which is, that the dreaming and waking consciouses are well seperated and mean no harm to each other. Waking life bleeds into dreaming life, but the other way it doesn't work, because in dreams we go through what happened in the day and after that dream, subconscious closes that chapter and nothing goes into your waking world-psyche.
That's just my belief and I don't expect anyone to share it.
"Lucid Dream count - 2"Quote:
Originally Posted by Überschall
That says it all.. yadda yadda..
O.K. Then stay the course!,... see where it leads,... what mysteries, adventures and discoveries it may bring. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Überschall
Leave the fucking number of my LDs out of there for now, Jesus Christ. This argument drifted more and more into a "well i got more lds so i HAVE to be right stfu". You haven't been making a point in your last three or so posts but picking on my "lack of experience" which I don't need anyway for this debate because it's a substinantial debate about dreaming and subconsciouseness. If I believe that MY subconscious doesn't let MY dream experiences bleed into MY psyche, stop going on me like a Conservative Christian Politician onto a gay, communistic member of the YMCA.Quote:
Originally Posted by Oneiro
"Nobody’s right, if everybody’s wrong."
PEACE! :boogie:
I don't think that killing DC's in a dream makes you more violent in real life. That's just my opinion though. It's a lucid dream: you are aware that you are dreaming, you are aware of the fact that these DC's and everything is not real, so what's wrong with some dream violence, as long as you keep in mind that you are dreaming?
I once punched someone in the face in my dream, because it's funny and it's not something that I can do without consequences (or want to!) in real life. As long as you keep a fine line between dream morals and real life morals, I don't see what could go wrong.
I hear you!Quote:
Originally Posted by Überschall
It's not the quantity of LDs,... it's the quality that counts! :)