Thread: Access to the subconscious??

Well first we have to understand what your subconcious is.

Basically it is the part of you that processes information all day long without you knowing. A good example i heard once was;

Ever tried to remember the name of a celebrity but just couldn't grasp it? Then you gave up and continued your day without thinking about it. Then later on it would just randomly pop into your head, "ah! Ozzy Osbourne!"

After you had given up thinking about it, your subconcious self went off into your 'memory banks' and found the answer.

I suppose lucid dreaming gives us access to our subconcious because we are in such a calm state that we ourselves can access our 'memory banks' instantly. We can also figure out if something has been troubling us that we have simply been ignoring or 'putting off' during the day. I guess thats why we have nightmares about things, our mind is saying "Hey you! Crazy faced-pace western society mug! Take a chill pill and sort out your issues eh?".

Originally Posted by Dizko

Well first we have to understand what your subconcious is.

Basically it is the part of you that processes information all day long without you knowing. A good example i heard once was;

Ever tried to remember the name of a celebrity but just couldn't grasp it? Then you gave up and continued your day without thinking about it. Then later on it would just randomly pop into your head, "ah! Ozzy Osbourne!"

After you had given up thinking about it, your subconcious self went off into your 'memory banks' and found the answer.

I suppose lucid dreaming gives us access to our subconcious because we are in such a calm state that we ourselves can access our 'memory banks' instantly. We can also figure out if something has been troubling us that we have simply been ignoring or 'putting off' during the day. I guess thats why we have nightmares about things, our mind is saying "Hey you! Crazy faced-pace western society mug! Take a chill pill and sort out your issues eh?".

So in a way we can learn things about ourselves that we didn't know before by accessing the subconscious? How do we access our "memory banks" in a LD? Is there a technique to do it?

sorry for the dumping of questions lol Im just really curious about this

I once read a thread here that mentioned that each DC in your dreams is a "part" of your subconscious, and if you ever manage to pull a full, unmutated clone of yourself out of a mirror or cloning machine, then you may be speaking to the full form of your subconscious. It makes sense, because your brain tries to make DC's respond as realistically as possible, and so it makes sense that a full clone of yourself would be made by your brain to act as the "sum" of all your subconscious thoughts - your subconscious. It's a very interesting idea, being able to talk directly to the full version of your subconscious during a lucid dream...

But is this true? It makes sense, logically, but I only read about this thing (with cloning yourself) once. Have you guys heard of this? This topic interests me as well, and talking directly to your subconscious and your subconscious thoughts in a lucid dream through a clone would be like the ultimate source of your inner feelings that you could discover in any kind of a dream.

Originally Posted by baseballmk92

I once read a thread here that mentioned that each DC in your dreams is a "part" of your subconscious, and if you ever manage to pull a full, unmutated clone of yourself out of a mirror or cloning machine, then you may be speaking to the full form of your subconscious. It makes sense, because your brain tries to make DC's respond as realistically as possible, and so it makes sense that a full clone of yourself would be made by your brain to act as the "sum" of all your subconscious thoughts - your subconscious. It's a very interesting idea, being able to talk directly to the full version of your subconscious during a lucid dream...

But is this true? It makes sense, logically, but I only read about this thing (with cloning yourself) once. Have you guys heard of this? This topic interests me as well, and talking directly to your subconscious and your subconscious thoughts in a lucid dream through a clone would be like the ultimate source of your inner feelings that you could discover in any kind of a dream.

Yea, I've read that on a thread here... that would be a cool thing to try in a LD and it makes sense, too bad Im not that good at lucid dreaming yet lol

haha that would be something to try as well. Clone yourself then ask
yourself questions. See if the 'clone you' gives you honest answers,
for instance ask it what your fave food is....or ask it something hard
like....exactly how many chocolate bars have I eaten in my real life?
It would be weird if it had an exact number to give you that sounded
reasonable.

Originally Posted by supreme

haha that would be something to try as well. Clone yourself then ask
yourself questions. See if the 'clone you' gives you honest answers,
for instance ask it what your fave food is....or ask it something hard
like....exactly how many chocolate bars have I eaten in my real life?
It would be weird if it had an exact number to give you that sounded
reasonable.

Yea haha someone should try it and post what happened

I'll definitely try it if I remember!

Hypnosis = Subconscious

Your Subconscious = Self-Hypnosis

okies ill have a go tonight if i remember although i havent the fogiest how to clone myself i think ill try magic first then a mirror

hang about a second thers a guy i no in my dreams i think hes my subconcious he woke me up once cus i stoped breathing in my sleep ill sumon him see what he thinks

okies i did it now he just talks jiberish either that or i wasnt listening properly

According to that theory, since I am me and not my subconscious, why the hell would my subconscious make me know everything that my subconscious knows? Wouldn't my clone be just as clueless as me?

I'm not 100% sure that you can use LDing to just tear your memory apart and find everything you ever wanted to know. I'm willing to believe that it's possible to do certain things like this, but not to such an extreme level.

Originally Posted by supreme

haha that would be something to try as well. Clone yourself then ask
yourself questions. See if the 'clone you' gives you honest answers,

That was a Task of the Month last year:
http://www.dreamviews.com/community/...ad.php?t=44482
There were a ton of interesting experiences.

Without going to crazy over the real definition of 'subconscious', I assume that every time I experience something unexpected in a lucid dream, it is my subconscious. For example, if I ask any DC questions, and their responses are not what I expected, it is communication with my subconscious.

You can also ask your dream world questions directly. Maybe look in a mirror and ask "Who is the fairest of them all?" Or tell yourself, "When I open this door, it will lead to my greatest fear." You get the idea.

Originally Posted by baseballmk92

I once read a thread here that mentioned that each DC in your dreams is a "part" of your subconscious, and if you ever manage to pull a full, unmutated clone of yourself out of a mirror or cloning machine, then you may be speaking to the full form of your subconscious. It makes sense, because your brain tries to make DC's respond as realistically as possible, and so it makes sense that a full clone of yourself would be made by your brain to act as the "sum" of all your subconscious thoughts - your subconscious. It's a very interesting idea, being able to talk directly to the full version of your subconscious during a lucid dream...

But is this true? It makes sense, logically, but I only read about this thing (with cloning yourself) once. Have you guys heard of this? This topic interests me as well, and talking directly to your subconscious and your subconscious thoughts in a lucid dream through a clone would be like the ultimate source of your inner feelings that you could discover in any kind of a dream.

I hope it's not true! A few nights ago I pulled my reflection out of the mirror, and I was smiling at it when it suddenly began to choke me. In real life I am a rather kind person. Maybe this could be my subconscious telling me to let my anger out?

Originally Posted by Robot_Butler

That was a Task of the Month last year:
http://www.dreamviews.com/community/...ad.php?t=44482
There were a ton of interesting experiences.

Without going to crazy over the real definition of 'subconscious', I assume that every time I experience something unexpected in a lucid dream, it is my subconscious. For example, if I ask any DC questions, and their responses are not what I expected, it is communication with my subconscious.

You can also ask your dream world questions directly. Maybe look in a mirror and ask "Who is the fairest of them all?" Or tell yourself, "When I open this door, it will lead to my greatest fear." You get the idea.

Wow, i just read the replies on that thread and there were some pretty cool ones, specially the one that responds "because when we dream we're born" or something like that

Subconsciousness... 19th century freudian era bullshit. Why don't you get yourself updated first?

Originally Posted by gigaschatten

Subconsciousness... 19th century freudian era bullshit. Why don't you get yourself updated first?

By "subconscious", most of us probably aren't referring to any actual 'thing' inside of you that knows everything about you that you can't come up with yourself. It's just a term for your inner thoughts, the ones that you might feel but not easily recognize, or that may be weighing in on your mind that you don't consciously realize are there. Personally, I'm aware that your 'subconscious' can't produce much of any new information that you hadn't previously known on some level anyway.

Next time, don't bother posting to try to 'inform' us on this. We'd rather not be forced to deal with such negative input like that.

theoretically you can summon your Dream Guide...which is just your subconcious...i dont anything personally but it might be possible and i am not trying to ressurect any old threads

Originally Posted by baseballmk92

Next time, don't bother posting to try to 'inform' us on this. We'd rather not be forced to deal with such negative input like that.

I'm sorry if this came out too negative, nevertheless the term "subconsciousness" is used by most in the meaning of freudian psychology or even worse not being defined at all.

Originally Posted by gigaschatten

I'm sorry if this came out too negative, nevertheless the term "subconsciousness" is used by most in the meaning of freudian psychology or even worse not being defined at all.

Do you know of a better term? One that carries less baggage?

As far as I learned, modern psychology - which sees itself in it's early development state - considers the brain to be a collection of very specialized problem solving resources and does not deny the possibility of non-local consciousness.

You got to get away from the unsustainable idea that everything can be traced back to some kind of brain function. We know next to nothing about the universe and even less about ourselves. We don't even need the term subconsciousness. It describes nothing.

Dreams are reality, not the one we use when awake, but no less real. Some people are using excuses like "it's all just imagination" to behave like a bull in a china shop and rape everything that looks like boobs when dreaming. That is the same stupid behavior that causes so much damage in our waking reality. There is no scientific proof that dreams are your individual, personal and meaningless (in a broader sense) imagination. That's how it is.

Originally Posted by gigaschatten

There is no scientific proof that dreams are your individual, personal and meaningless (in a broader sense) imagination. That's how it is.

Is there any evidence to the contrary? I don't know why we should assume they are not our imaginations. Everything I've ever seen in my dreams leads me to believe it is just in my head. And its not like I'm closed minded about the subject, or am invested in it either way.

Originally Posted by Robot_Butler

Is there any evidence to the contrary?

It looks real, it feels real, it even smells real. There are people and when you talk to them, you'll realize they're not dumb. To say the least, they seem a lot more intelligent than the many species that are already extinct in our world because of our heedless behavior. It should take some real good and firm proof to say that is all just imagination.

Originally Posted by Robot_Butler

I don't know why we should assume they are not our imaginations.

And I don't see why we should. Do you have anything substantive to confirm your opinion?

Originally Posted by Robot_Butler

Everything I've ever seen in my dreams leads me to believe it is just in my head.

Belief is not proof and it did enough wrong in the waking world already. Everything I've seen leads me to believe it's different, but very real.

Originally Posted by Robot_Butler

And its not like I'm closed minded about the subject, or am invested in it either way.

Good, then you'll see that until it is absolutely sure that dreams are just meaningless imaginations, one has to assume they're not and behave that way in order not to cause damage that might be very real until proven otherwise... which will never happen.

The simple fact that our bodies are laying in bed while we sleep is nearly enough to show that dreams are just from our imaginations. And, for the sake of argument, in order for dreams to be anything but our imaginations, they would have to take place somewhere other than on Earth. And every dream's setting is completely different. I understand your argument that until we prove anything, we can't assume anything to be true, but I don't see the substance and evidence from your P.O.V. either. To me, it just seems illogical that our dreams are 'real' and actually take place.

I mean, society basically accepts that our dreams are not real, since, after all, we don't leave our beds during our sleep. If you're going to say you believe they are real, you should really support that with something. It's a completely radical idea. Where, if not on Earth, do dreams take place? How can the settings of our dreams all be different? Why don't others remember what happened in our dreams if they were characters in our dreams? Why is it that we can feel our physical bodies during lucid dreams in light sleep? How is WILD'ing, transitioning from the waking state to a lucid dream without any lapse in consciousness, possible, if dreams take place in some other 'place'? Something, like a soul, within us would need to leave our bodies.

If religious beliefs are behind your ideas, I won't argue. I'm not religious, but arguing with religion is not only an argument that inevitably leads to no winner, but those arguments shouldn't bother to take place, anyway. I just want to hear the basis for your ideas, because I see no reason to think that we're exiting our physical bodies to some other reality during the night. I can't prove it...but I don't see why it should be suspected, or why it should be possible. The stages of sleep and dreaming are so well-documented, along with the science behind hallucinating, that the idea that dreams actually take place seems to just be coming out of nowhere, whereas the contrary, and more common belief that dreams are just our imagination, has much more reason and evidence behind it. Just because dreams seem as real as life does not mean they really are real. From your posts in this thread, you seem to understand science/psychology more than most of us...so I'm a bit bewildered by the fact that your actual ideas and beliefs about dreaming greatly defy science.

Originally Posted by baseballmk92

The simple fact that our bodies are laying in bed while we sleep is nearly enough to show that dreams are just from our imaginations.

I don't see how that could show that dreams are imaginations.

Originally Posted by baseballmk92

And, for the sake of argument, in order for dreams to be anything but our imaginations, they would have to take place somewhere other than on Earth. And every dream's setting is completely different.

Ah, come on. That's made up out of thin air.

Originally Posted by baseballmk92

I understand your argument that until we prove anything, we can't assume anything to be true, but I don't see the substance and evidence from your P.O.V. either. To me, it just seems illogical that our dreams are 'real' and actually take place.

First, I don't need to prove my view. Respect for others demands us to act cautiously if there is the possibility our actions may cause harm.

Second, it is not illogical to assume dreams are real. Otherwise we would have a scientific proof. I think you wanted to say it does not feel right for you to accept the reality of dreams, but that is just your bias, not a fact.

Originally Posted by baseballmk92

I mean, society basically accepts that our dreams are not real, since, after all, we don't leave our beds during our sleep.

You mean the body does not leave the bed. We are not our bodies though. And about society... it supports many obviously wrong and ill things. I guess I don't need to elaborate that.

Originally Posted by baseballmk92

If you're going to say you believe they are real, you should really support that with something. It's a completely radical idea.

No, it isn't. And it's not a new idea. It may be radical for most westerners though, but we have been cut off from our spiritual roots anyway. We're materialists and being that, we are very poor people.

Originally Posted by baseballmk92

Where, if not on Earth, do dreams take place?

Where? When? Does space even exist? Scientists today have accessed maybe 0.05 percent of what may be in our universe. The rest is not perceivable, not even with instruments. And that's what scientists say themselves. So basically we know next to nothing.

I don't know how the universe works, but I'm sure it works a lot different than we think it does today.

Originally Posted by baseballmk92

How can the settings of our dreams all be different?

They aren't always different. Apart from that I cannot answer that. But I don't need to. I can just ask back how it comes that the setting in waking reality is always the same? You will not be able to answer that sufficiently too.

Originally Posted by baseballmk92

Why don't others remember what happened in our dreams if they were characters in our dreams?

Because they weren't there. I met people I know or knew in my dreams. They weren't the same persons. They were made up, trying to imitate people I know. DCs can access your memory and they use it to get you involved in situations they create, for whatever reason. If you meet someone you think you know again, look closer.

Originally Posted by baseballmk92

Why is it that we can feel our physical bodies during lucid dreams in light sleep?

Well, why is it consciousness can be in many places at the same time? I don't know, but I do know that it is possible. I've had various such experiences using entheogens.

Originally Posted by baseballmk92

How is WILD'ing, transitioning from the waking state to a lucid dream without any lapse in consciousness, possible, if dreams take place in some other 'place'? Something, like a soul, within us would need to leave our bodies.

I don't know, but what if the spirit does not need time to reach places (assuming space exists) as the body does? Or is the body simply too restricted so it cannot perceive the layers of reality that exist at the same place and time? Read this: http://www.geom.uiuc.edu/~banchoff/Flatland/ It won't answer your question, but it'll show what I mean. A classic read.

Originally Posted by baseballmk92

If religious beliefs are behind your ideas, I won't argue.

Actually no, my point of view relies on what is known and what is not known. As I said, we know next to nothing and that is not a secret. But somehow many people assume we have explained the universe already. We haven't and we probably will never understand.

Originally Posted by baseballmk92

I'm not religious, but arguing with religion is not only an argument that inevitably leads to no winner, but those arguments shouldn't bother to take place, anyway. I just want to hear the basis for your ideas, because I see no reason to think that we're exiting our physical bodies to some other reality during the night. I can't prove it...

Exactly that's the point. You don't know.

Originally Posted by baseballmk92

but I don't see why it should be suspected, or why it should be possible.

And I don't see why it should not be suspected or why it should be impossible. We both don't know and we both can neither prove nor disprove it.

Originally Posted by baseballmk92

The stages of sleep and dreaming are so well-documented,

Nope, only externally measured brainpatterns are documented. It let's us assume a few things about the body, nothing else.

Originally Posted by baseballmk92

along with the science behind hallucinating,

There are many hypotheses about that, but no hard facts. Did you know that most of the pharmaceuticals used today are just used because they are empirically known to work, yet it is unknown how they work. Probably you didn't know it. That's how it is though.

Originally Posted by baseballmk92

that the idea that dreams actually take place seems to just be coming out of nowhere, whereas the contrary, and more common belief that dreams are just our imagination, has much more reason and evidence behind it.

Reason and evidence? Where? Can you give that to me? No, it's just the commonly accepted opinion, which does not prove its correctness. There were times when people thought that black people were not real humans, but half animals. So they put them into zoos or made them slaves. That was commonly accepted too, even by scientists.

Originally Posted by baseballmk92

Just because dreams seem as real as life does not mean they really are real.

Well, but that's more evidence for their realness than against it, correct?

Originally Posted by baseballmk92

From your posts in this thread, you seem to understand science/psychology more than most of us...so I'm a bit bewildered by the fact that your actual ideas and beliefs about dreaming greatly defy science.

Defy science? Not really. Talk to a scientist who knows what he or she is doing and you'll see they are very humble people, because they know that what they know is really not much. And even the few things they know could be disproved another day. That happened many times and it will happen many more times.

Most people seem to mix up science with religion. They claim to have no religion, yet they base their view of the world on what they think science is. Remove every hypothesis, every speculation, everything that has not been proven and in relation - yes, I'm going to repeat myself - we know nothing. Even worse, wrong knowledge is less than nothing, because it is an obstruction on the way to knowledge you first have to overcome.

Knowing nothing, we have to assume everything is possible and because we are conscious beings capable of care and love, we must be cautious. Do we know that dreams are just imagination? No, we don't. Do we know the opposite? No, we don't. But is it possible that our actions in dreams can be harmful to other conscious beings? Yes, that is possible.