s.p. Help

[xxstimpzxx]

Ive had a few Lucid dreams, and they were all from DILD's. Though I havnt been able to enter s.p. once and now im just dying to be able to achieve it. I have a few questions about it that maybe will help. You can enter s.p. at anytime right? I dont have to make sure im in REM to be able to achieve it? (note, i just want s.p. dont mind if i get a lucid out of it or not) Is it possible to enter s.p. and be able to move? (like a few times ive felt as if i was coverd by a metal blanket, and thought i had made it but when i tried to move my arm it instantly felt normal) besides those questions any tips on helping me achieve this i would really appreciate even if i end up hating the experiance forever I'm just dying to get to try it once.

[Shift]

Ive had a few Lucid dreams, and they were all from DILD's. Though I havnt been able to enter s.p. once and now im just dying to be able to achieve it. I have a few questions about it that maybe will help. You can enter s.p. at anytime right? I dont have to make sure im in REM to be able to achieve it? (note, i just want s.p. dont mind if i get a lucid out of it or not) Is it possible to enter s.p. and be able to move? (like a few times ive felt as if i was coverd by a metal blanket, and thought i had made it but when i tried to move my arm it instantly felt normal) besides those questions any tips on helping me achieve this i would really appreciate even if i end up hating the experiance forever I'm just dying to get to try it once. http://www.dreamviews.com/community/...ad.php?t=67910 Read that. Your goal is not sleep paralysis.

[PSPSoldier534]

No, he wants sleep paralysis, not a lucid dream.

[Shift]

No, he wants sleep paralysis, not a lucid dream. I never said that his goal was to lucid dream. Do you know what sleep paralysis is? Apparently neither of you do, which is why I linked the thread. Read it.

[PSPSoldier534]

Sleep paralysis is just a device that prevents you from acting out dreams, and usually has hypnogogic hallucinations to accompany it. He wants to experience the hallucinations.

[Shift]

Sleep paralysis is just a device that prevents you from acting out dreams, and usually has hypnogogic hallucinations to accompany it. He wants to experience the hallucinations. Read the thread. You are talking about REM atonia. The hallucinations that occur during REM are REM dreams. You're talking about hypnagogic hallucinations.

[PSPSoldier534]

Read the thread. You are talking about REM atonia. The hallucinations that occur during REM are REM dreams. You're talking about hypnagogic hallucinations. ...That's exactly what I'm talking about... not dreams, just HH.

[Shift]

...That's exactly what I'm talking about... not dreams, just HH. But you are confusing all the terms. For newbs' sake, just read up on the difference between sleep paralysis, rem atonia, and HH

[moonshine]

Shift, Rem Atonia/Sleep Paralysis, Potatoes/patatas. I understand where your coming from, but I don't think your going to change the terminology. If its good enough for laberge, its good enough for most of us. BTW Attaining SP is a legitimate way of lucid dreaming. Its not the only way, it may not be the most effective way, but yes, SP can reasonably be a goal.

[Shift]

Shift, Rem Atonia/Sleep Paralysis, Potatoes/patatas. I understand where your coming from, but I don't think your going to change the terminology. If its good enough for laberge, its good enough for most of us. BTW Attaining SP is a legitimate way of lucid dreaming. Its not the only way, it may not be the most effective way, but yes, SP can reasonably be a goal. Personally I really don't care about terminology, the rest of the world can have no idea for all I care. Anyone not willing to do a bit of reading can live on in ignorance. But as a DG my responsibility is to make sure that new members understand these things. Don't you think it's important that the OP understand wtf REM sleep is, REM atonia, and 'sleep paralysis' (by nearly any of it's 'definitions'?) I mean SP during REM sleep? Moving during SP? That shows a serious lack of understanding that I think needs to be clarified so that the OP can achieve his goals. As responsible members you guys ought to be promoting that, not pretending that the words matter and that the original post isn't in need of some straightening out. Anyway he's talking about hypnagogia, particularly the tactile hallucinations it seems, not sleep paralysis (the physical paralysis of your body outside of rem sleep) or REM atonia.

[moonshine]

All I think is that the scemantic difference between Rem Atonia (Commonly know as Sleep Paralysis) and Sleep Paralysis (The "hag" syndrome) isn't that big a deal. C'mon Shift, we've discussed this before. I think pushing this issue is more confusing for the newbies because: a) Sleep Paralysis is indeed a generally accepted terminology in the forum. b) It is used in exactly the same way in Lucid dreaming books. The other issue was SP as a means to Lucid Dreaming. Though its not your preference, or indeed maybe not the most effective way of achieving a LD, it does work as part of the stepping stones to LD. Its also quite cool in its own right. Not trying to get in your face here. I value your opinion and advice. Just trying to make myself clear.

[PSPSoldier534]

What he wants is the HH that usually comes bundled with SP. I don't care about what's it really called. He's not as anxious for an LD as he is for SPHH .

[Thor]

What he wants is the HH that usually comes bundled with SP. I don't care about what's it really called. He's not as anxious for an LD as he is for SPHH . Yes, it seems that what he wants is HH. However, anxiously wanting something that depends on unconscious processes is an excellent way to ensure that you don't get it. This is called "The Law of Reversed Effect". For example, an insomniac who anxiously tries to fall asleep will usually find himself becoming more awake. An indifferent attitude is a far more effective tactic for attaining such goals. If xxstimpzxx had said "screw the HH, I just want a WILD" he might have had a far greater chance of getting HH.

[moonshine]

Yes, it seems that what he wants is HH. However, anxiously wanting something that depends on unconscious processes is an excellent way to ensure that you don't get it. This is called "The Law of Reversed Effect". For example, an insomniac who anxiously tries to fall asleep will usually find himself becoming more awake. An indifferent attitude is a far more effective tactic for attaining such goals. If xxstimpzxx had said "screw the HH, I just want a WILD" he might have had a far greater chance of getting HH. By the same token, if he'd just waited for SP, he might also have experienced HH.

[Shift]

By the same token, if he'd just waited for SP, he might also have experienced HH. Well if you're going to agree that HH and SP are not the same thing, then remember that SP is a disorder. Its been suggested that it's genetic or cultural, so unless he's already getting SP as a disorder regularly, that would not make sense for someone to try. I don't know it seems like a huge waste of one's time to sit through what would likely be multiple sleep stages when you could get HH during stage 1 and be done with it, but when retaining consciousness long enough to enter REM atonia might not include any sensations or maybe just include nightmarish ones, though likely you would just WILD. I guess the benefit is that during a WILD you could induce feelings similar to HH. But if you just want the true hallucinations then it would be a HUGE waste of time, when WILDing isn't the goal. As in over an hour, versus however long it takes you to begin falling asleep. And to WBTB for that when you could just fall asleep in the beginning of the night and experience it?...Again, a waste of time and sleep that the majority of people could better spent. Especially since some people may not even experience HH.

[moonshine]

Well if you're going to agree that HH and SP are not the same thing, then remember that SP is a disorder. Its been suggested that it's genetic or cultural, so unless he's already getting SP as a disorder regularly, that would not make sense for someone to try. I don't know it seems like a huge waste of one's time to sit through what would likely be multiple sleep stages when you could get HH during stage 1 and be done with it, but when retaining consciousness long enough to enter REM atonia might not include any sensations or maybe just include nightmarish ones, though likely you would just WILD. I guess the benefit is that during a WILD you could induce feelings similar to HH. But if you just want the true hallucinations then it would be a HUGE waste of time, when WILDing isn't the goal. As in over an hour, versus however long it takes you to begin falling asleep. And to WBTB for that when you could just fall asleep in the beginning of the night and experience it?...Again, a waste of time and sleep that the majority of people could better spent. Especially since some people may not even experience HH. It is a disorder. Its also commonly used to describe a physiological state where ones body goes to sleep whilst ones brain remains conscious.

[Thor]

By the same token, if he'd just waited for SP, he might also have experienced HH. If your definition of SP is "a physiological state where ones body goes to sleep whilst ones brain remains conscious", as you write below, then yes probably. But isn't that pretty much the same as attempting a WILD, as I wrote? I have no particular desire to rehash our previous discussions on SP. I just wanted to point out "The Law of Reversed Effect", which applies to anything that requires cooperation from your unconscious mind, including HH and LD. If you're trying too hard it becomes harder.

[moonshine]

I have no particular desire to rehash our previous discussions on SP. I just wanted to point out "The Law of Reversed Effect", which applies to anything that requires cooperation from your unconscious mind, including HH and LD. If you're trying too hard it becomes harder. Well thats fair enough thor, and, from what I've read, I would agree with you. That said, time consuming as it may be, SP may indeed be a good way for newbies to WILD. I certainly am aware that of the number of times ive attempted a WILD, the most succesful was my very first, where I did, very strongly encounter SP. Only I was so shocked as I didn't know what to expect. Hence my previous threads on the subject.