Thread: Time?

are lucid dreams works in same time duration with real life?
i heared that dreams just lasts for 12 seconds at most.
if is true then how can be lucid dreams real?

You are basing your entire perception of lucid dreaming on popular belief. For starters, lucid dreams and REM states are not the same thing. Dreams will normally last for as long as 15 minutes at a time without any interruptions (give or take a few minutes, and depending on the REM cycle at present), and the flow of time in them is entirely subjective and up to your mind for creation and interpretation.

And I have no idea how any of the above you stated even hints that lucid dreams are not real.

Originally Posted by antipatique

are lucid dreams works in same time duration with real life?
i heared that dreams just lasts for 12 seconds at most.
if is true then how can be lucid dreams real?

I am not sure where you heard these things, but no a dream can certainly last longer than 12s. Some research suggests that time passes similarly in dreams as it does in real life, but some lucid dreamers are able to slow down or speed up time in their dreams (time dilation) which suggests that this is not a strict law of dream time. I believe during the study the participants were aware of the hypothesis that time would pass at the same rate, and no doubt the expectations and behavior of the dreamers had an effect on the dream.

Are you saying that you have to be lucid for more than 12s for a dream to be a lucid dream?

Dreams also are not restricted to REM sleep.

Originally Posted by Shift

Dreams also are not restricted to REM sleep.

I'm fascinated by that idea. Have you any experience?

sorry for off topic.

Yeah dreams occur both in rem and non-rem sleep. Those in rem are simply more vivid.

Time in dreams can be very very amazing indeed. You can dream for half a second, and experience 5 minutes. You can test this effect of time diliation yourself when attempting a WILD. Check the clock both before and after the failed attempt...

Originally Posted by gaia

I'm fascinated by that idea. Have you any experience?

Originally Posted by ChaybaChayba

Yeah dreams occur both in rem and non-rem sleep. Those in rem are simply more vivid.

While dreams are what people most often associate with REM sleep, a person is not always dreaming while they are in REM sleep; dreams occupy approximately 80-90 percent of REM sleep. Also, not all dreams are REM sleep dreams. Studies from sleep labs have shown that dreaming can occur during wakefulness and NREM sleep, as well as during REM sleep. Generally, REM dreams are longer, more visual, more bizarre, and not as related to actual life events. Those dreams in which Elvis is skateboarding with your mother but it's not really your mother, it's really your cat, and suddenly Elvis has turned into Bullwinkle, although he still sings very well, is probably a REM sleep dream. Or incipient mental illness. NREM dreams tend to be shorter, more thoughtful, less emotional and more related to life events. These are the types of dreams in which you think about the Henderson-Hasselbach equation all night long. Also, nightmares and night terrors occur during NREM sleep.

Physiology and Neurochemistry of Sleep -Rosenthal

I have tried and tried and found nothing saying that the dreams are actually less vivid, just that the involvement of the senses varies as does the subject matter. I suppose being less visual may be grounds to say they are less vivid, but an emotional or auditory hallucination can certainly be vivid, too. I wonder if it's all just our preoccupation with sight. I wonder what blind people would say about NREM vs REM dreams?

Studies from sleep labs have shown that dreaming can occur during wakefulness

Intriguing. Do they mention what separates a dream from a daydream? Or do they consider daydreaming simply part of the same whole?

Originally Posted by arby

Intriguing. Do they mention what separates a dream from a daydream? Or do they consider daydreaming simply part of the same whole?

That's how I felt, too, but they don't specify nor do they cite a source for that entire paragraph of text. The sources at the bottom explain the rest of the paragraph, but not how, why, why, when, or who dreams during waking consciousness or who they got that one line of text from. I'm gonna keep looking, if/when I find something I'll post back