good insight, thanks for the response
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good insight, thanks for the response
This is an Interesting, Interesting.... point indeed.Quote:
Originally Posted by dreamingofdreaming
It is true that questioning your state of mind, the state of the environment, and the state of others brings forth a sort of clarity. It's inevitable that in the long run, one develops a sharp awareness of both the internal and external aspects of Life, and dreams in this case. While at the same time, if one is constantly looking for "dream clues", wouldn't that influence their perception of the world? Perception is very subjective.. it is influenced by what the perceiver is seeking. Therefore, is the clarity obtained from differentiating waking life and dreams really that pure? I guess it's a matter of relativity.. No worries, I'm not trying to be pessimistic, but it's by raising questions that we eventually come to a "clear" answer though, right?
On another note, here are some things that I realized lucid dreaming did to me..
I feel that I opened myself to art more because of lucid dreaming. Perhaps I've been using the right side of my brain more by remembering and writing down my dreams more often? Also, I seem to be looking at the environment in a more profound way as well. Not only because I search for unusual patterns or details to determine if what I'm seeing is a dream or not, but because I actually take the time to "see" and appreciate the details and unusual things I now come across.
Well enough rambling for now... more to come later. ;)
I remember my History teacher telling us about lucid dreams. (Instead of actually teaching history :?) He was presenting a case of whether or not lucind dreaming could make people go crazy. Dreams, he told us, was the brains way of organizing infomation we received during the day, and sorting it all out. Now, if we were to suddenly stop this important process and instead do what we wanted to do, like flying around or going on cool adventures then, he said, the mind could overload and go insane :holycrap:
Now, I don't really believe this, but that's what he said. It brings up some interesting points though. Why does the mind battle against us in the case of lucid dreams? Why does all that scary stuff happen? Could too much clarity actually lead to insanity???
I swear I saw nothing about Cookie monster exploding the sun yesterday though :shock:Quote:
Originally Posted by MeeZZ
I completly agree! I've always enjoyed nature and the outdoors but, especially in the last couple of weeks, I have been looking at things a lot differently, with a new appreciation and understanding. I also find the "out of the ordinary" daily things to be quite frequent and entertaining. Before lucid dreaming, I wouldn't of noticed these seemingly miniscule events........ now onto the bad and ugly.....Quote:
Originally Posted by High Hunter
Quote:
Originally Posted by MeeZZ
That's fairly biased of your proff to preach these things he knows nothing of, atleast not with any substancial evidence. However, his theory is interesting and is exactly what is discussed here. And you brough up a good point; why does the mind battle us in lucid dreams? Why does scary stuff happen? I really do think that the mind can "split" or "turn" if too much control is taken away from it. I believe dreams are needed to help process problems, events, emotions....and by manipulating dreams (although I'm 100% for) could lead to the beginings of insanity :boggle:
Could anyone actually know if they were going insane from lucid dreams? I don't want to be ignorant, but I've never heard of a case where lucid dreaming was the cause of going crazy. And, could anyone prove otherwise? :disconcerted:
^Personally, I'd say no, but then again, there are a lot of undocumented happenings in this world, so who really knows? Anything's possible to me (no matter how unlikely).
All's I know is, the point of lucid dreaming is for one to know that one is dreaming, so...I don't see how having a better awareness in dreams could negatively affect one's awareness in waking life...at least not to the point of being unable to discern reality from the dream world.
If anything, I'd have thought it'd be normal (albeit vivid) dreams that would cause someone confusion between the worlds of wakefulness and dreaming, since in normal dreams, you think you're awake.
Of course, I'm a little jaded at the moment, and so I'm not even sure if anything I'm typing is making any sense, but... :P
That happens to some people.
You're like a natural HH'er hehe.
Here's an interesting article I came across..
I definitely don't agree with everything that's said on here, especially the controversial stuff, but hey.. it's an interesting read.
Let's hear what you guys think !
You bring up a good point; would a person really know if they were going insane from lucid dreaming? Well, I'm not sure if one even knows if they are going insane in the first place. Yes, there is no documented proof about someone going insane from lucid dreaming, but there is very little proof or clear answers on why exactly people go "insane" in the first place.Quote:
Originally Posted by MeeZZ
The main definition of insane is "exhibiting unsoundness or disorded of mind; not sane; mad; deranged in mind; delirious; distracted (ref)
So I think it can be said that lucid dreaming can cause a disorderd, delirious and distracted mind.
I'll explain what I mean more in the following ramblings :mrgreen:
This is interesting but obviously biased and I can't side too much with it because of that fact, but I agree that some cases of lucid dreaming could lead to some of these symptoms. I especially agree with Dissociation, because I have experienced confusion of whether something really happend or if it was a dream. I have talked with several friends and family who have experienced the same thing.Quote:
Originally Posted by High Hunter
Lezen you brought up the point that lucid dreams would add clarity and not confusion because you are aware, and that non lucid dreams would cause the uncertainty. While I agree with that statement, I have to bring up the point that it is very uncommon for someone to dream lucidly every dream and every night. Even an advanced lucid dreamer will still have non lucid dreams, and because of increase in recall, I think the confusion of whether something happened "...can really be a problem for those who have previously had zero recall and, due to lucid dreaming, have had a major uptake in recall. Now, suddenly, they have all these excess, illogical memories to sort out." - from the article.
This confusion could certainly describe a mind that is slightly disordered, delierious and distracted. :shock:
Hm. Your right, it is interesting. However, I really can't say that I agree with all that. But, then again, I'm new to lucid dreaming.Quote:
Originally Posted by High Hunter
Now, I pose a question: how bad do the bad things of lucid dreaming really get? Has anybody here ever had an extreme case of dissociation? Or any of the other things metioned in the article? Are they only bad moments were everything seems crazy, but then the moment passes? What if our brains only act like that because we are trying something totally foreign and new? It could be like training yourself to run a marathon: your whole body is sore and hurts like hell, but in the end, your grow stronger because of it?
Ok, that was alot of questions :)
That was a lot of questions...but I like them
I just came across this thread....it had 30 replies and it supports the questions that, yes, people do get symptoms of dissociation and that it can increase with lucid dreaming.... check it out
I'll get back to the other ones :D
That link is awesome gringa ;)
Well this might be a tad off topic, but this thread got me wondering...
How much do you think your behavior in lucid dreams affect your waking behavior? I mean, I've heard of a bunch of people on here who spend a lot of time killing dream characters in their lucid dreams. Now I'm sure that they don't go around killing people in real life, but does this behavior affect anything about themselves when they are awake? Do they not kill people, but think about it? Maybe that would eventually lead you to disconnect from people and perhaps lead to symptoms of dissociation in some aspect. I'm just speculating of course..
What do you guys think?
Dissociation :roll: hah
on the other hand...http://e.deviantart.com/emoticons/p/paranoid.gifQuote:
Addiction
Lucid dreaming can be used for different purposes. Some may want to try it just for fun, using it as a "safe drug", or a personal virtual reality machine. Having fun is a fully valid application of lucid dreaming. However, be careful not to be addicted to this way of escaping your waking life. If you find that you are spending more time asleep than actually needed, or that you are thinking more about lucid dreams than your real waking life, take a look at your life: if you're accomplishing the goals you have for yourself, and/or are content with the state of your life, there's likely no cause for alarm. If you see that your life needs work, you might take a break... or, you might use the tools of lucid dreaming to explore what needs to be done in your life.
I don't think that's possible. The extreme worst that can happen is the person in question sleeping a few extra hours every now and then, which is a good thing, and spending too much time on DV or similar sites. Reality checks don't take up time. You can no more be addicted to dreaming than you can to being awake.Quote:
Addiction
Lucid dreaming can be used for different purposes. Some may want to try it just for fun, using it as a "safe drug", or a personal virtual reality machine. Having fun is a fully valid application of lucid dreaming. However, be careful not to be addicted to this way of escaping your waking life. If you find that you are spending more time asleep than actually needed, or that you are thinking more about lucid dreams than your real waking life, take a look at your life: if you're accomplishing the goals you have for yourself, and/or are content with the state of your life, there's likely no cause for alarm. If you see that your life needs work, you might take a break... or, you might use the tools of lucid dreaming to explore what needs to be done in your life.
Addiction can happen with anything.
An adverse effect I get with lucid dreaming is sleep talking. It never happens when I stop trying to get lucid, it only happens when I'm intent on a lucid dream. Mainly it's just mumbling, so I don't think its anything worth worrying about. Does anyone else get similar experiences?
Relax.. there's nothing wrong with LD. It's just impossible that it "drives you crazy". If anyone has ever read Descartes, questioning our own reality is the basis for rationnality... Reality Checks are just the opposite of going insane.
And for the weird sounds, they are just HH that eventually will wear out with experience. Nothing to be afraid. LDing and putting attetion to dreams only has benefits : increasing creativity, intuition, appreciaton for beauty etc.. and having fun while other people just sleep
This point/argument, makes me think about a common debate about video games and if violent ones can lead to people becoming violent in real life, especially games where the sole mission is to kill as many people as possibal. In college, we had several discussions about this very point, it always seemed to end on "moderation is key". So, perhaps people killing e/o in dreams in extreme cases could lead to violent dissociatiion... I don't know, what do you think? Going off this (and also a little off topic) what is everyones thoughts on children/teens playing extreme violent video games?? Here's some food for thought :popcorn:Quote:
Originally Posted by High Hunter
I agree with this as long as you agree that there are various forms of addiction, meaning they are not all chemical or physcal, there can be psychological addictions as well, although the latter is controversal to some. I do think that becoming too obsessed with LDing can be a bad thing, ie sleeping too much, RCing extensivley, zoning out to binaural beats etc... and could possibly lead some to an obsessive compulsive behavior or an addiction when it comes to LDing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shift
Thanks for your opinion on this matter. Just to clarify, no one is saying that LDing will make your crazy. We are discussing the negative, or bad and ugly "symptoms" of lucid dreams and how, in some cases, it could lead to signs of a mind that is slightly distracted and disoriented. I agree that LDing is awesome, it has so many benefits and it's downright fun! However, it is obvious from the replies and from other threads I have found, that many people share this interest and have also had negative things happen due to LDing. Whether these negative things are simply HH, confusing dreams with reality or developing a slight addiction, I think they can effect some worse than others. Some people seem to be "naturals" at dreaming (great recall, natural at WILDing, experienced LD all there lives) and maybe these people could begin to experience halucinations (visual and audio) during random waking hours, or maybe someone begins ignoring friends/family, stops going out and literally stays in bed all day attempting to LD. - Can anyone relate to this?Quote:
Originally Posted by Mauricio
detroitLions1970 -I have never been a sleep talker, but same with you, I have begun shouting and mumbling (mostly when I'm attempting to control a SP spell) I don't really think ths could be a major problem though :D Although, developing sleep walking could be bad :shock:
I have nothing super constructive to say, but that really made me laugh. Thanks for making my night. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by dreamingofdreaming
Also go to bed with happy thoughts. :sunflower:
Hehehe well I can relate to not wanting to go out of bed to school just to have another dream but not to the point of alienating myself and not having social life.
I do not want to sound rude and appreciate that someone puts it on debate. But I feel that it may lead people who are trying to have their first LD to be scared of it and they would miss and awesome experience.
For the person who said that LDing is bad for the liver, the only reason that I can see that is because when we sleep, at ~2-3am, there is the purification process occurring in the liver as we dream, but, I don't think its linked to it in anyway, so, I don't think there is anything to worry about, however, it still is an interesting point to make :)
That sounds kind of scary, but imagine if you could learn to control these hallucinations. Say you have a history test; you could look at your notes the night before and then summon them when you are doing the test.
Epic!!Quote:
Originally Posted by dreamingofdreaming
Lol, that's one of the funniest things I've ever heard about LDing. I wonder who told you that.