Thread: Is it possible to enter an LD outside of a REM cycle?

Originally Posted by Thor

Well, thoughts that you have in your sleep. The point is that thought-like dreams are neither like daydreams or vivid dreams.

Can't take your definition of daydreams seriously I'm afraid.
They're not actually dreams in any way shape or form.
Its simply being lost in though, whether said thoughts include visualisations etc or not.

Originally Posted by Thor

I didn't understand how that paper was supposed to support your contention that NREM dreams are different from REM dreams.

I'm suggesting how it may be possible to have REM like dreams in whats technically NREM.
In that transition period. Because in that transition period you do have Atonia, which would prevent you acting out your dreams.
And if its a blurred line between having sleep paralysis and not, then there may well be an equally blurred line between
REM and NREM.


Which still leaves room for the "pure" NREM type dreams that I (and I'm others have experienced) when you feel like you've been awake all night with thoughts racing about in your head.

Originally Posted by Thor

As to their discussion of "atonia" this is not atonia in the sense of the complete blockade of nerve signals that occurs in the brainstem during REM sleep. What they are talking about is atonia in the sense of low muscle tone as measured by EMG. Granted if you have real atonia you will have very low muscle tone, but if you have very low muscle tone, that's not necessarily an indication of real atonia. (Didn't we have this discussion last year?)

REM atonia and muscle atonia are essentially one in the same.
The papers stating that the Atonia which takes place during REM sleep also ramps up and ramps down in NREM Sleep.
Thats how I read it anyway.

(Best not to go into last years discussion - wasn't that when you were denying Sleep Paralysis could actually be used in WILD attempts?)