Musical Instruments

[slush]

I was just curious as to whether or not playing an instrument in a Lucid Dream would help at all at getting better at the instrument? Also, if it can, is it a significant difference between before the dream and after the dream?

[jarrhead]

HAHA. Nah, I don't think it honestly will make a significant difference, though I never have. I'm a very dedicated 5/6 string bass player though. :p

[jarrhead]

Maybe something you learned/read will make more sense. Cause you can think and solve problems in lucid dreams. Some people study LDing for the sole purpose of solving problems and their questions. Say you learn mode shapes/modes. They might make no sense but if you LD and think about it, you may get it the next morning.

[slush]

Thank you for the info

[jarrhead]

I don't know, I have yet to have a dream about something, as I haven't really been stumped until just this wednesday, when I was taught walking 3rds, 4ths, 5ths, 6ths, and 7ths over alternating key signatures in different modes, mainly Phyrigian, Ionian, and Dorian

[Rainman]

I think if you have a very extended depth of understanding of an instrument, pitch relativity, and music theory, then one may be able to practice an instrument in an lucid dream, but other than that, your mind will create sounds that do not correspond with what a real instrument would produce. It would be similar to the effect of reading or writing something in a lucid dream, but to an even more distorted extent, because your mind would likely produce a sound that you WANT to hear, rather than a realistic representation of what the instrument would actually do. For example, if you've never heard what a G# locrian scale sounded like, but someone told you all of the notes to play, and you tried to play them in a lucid dream, unless you have perfect pitch and are very gifted at music theory, it's extremely unlikely that your mind would be able to create an accurate representation of how that would sound. Keep in mind, that the dream world is based on things that you have already experienced. Even things that you've never done in waking life, such as flying, are recreated by putting together elements of other things you have experienced-- jumping, falling, wind, breeze, cold, moving fast, etc. With music, if you've never experienced it, that sort of thing would not be reproducable because it's something specific that corresponds to something else specific, you see? Does that make sense?

[slush]

Yes it does thank you for that

[Rainman]

Good You're welcome!

[slush]

Also, I'm very new to the idea of Lucid Dreaming. Do you think keeping a dream journal should be the first thing I start to do in order to obtain lucidity?

[Fabio-the-dreamer]

Also, I'm very new to the idea of Lucid Dreaming. Do you think keeping a dream journal should be the first thing I start to do in order to obtain lucidity? Yes, I do believe that practicing and intstrument in a dream could help with say, piano, or fretwork on a guitar. It could however be worse that useless for instuments like the violin or trumpet.

[Clamosus]

I think that playing instruments in dreams is as effective as in waking life, if you have played the instrument before i.e. you know how to play the instrument. My psychology teacher said that even watching the sheet music will be effective; the same neurons will be activated as they would when you actually play the instrument or something like that. Why not in dreams? So yes, playing in dreams will help, imo. Oh, sorry for bad English

[Sloth Face]

Usually whenever I find myself playing an instrument in dreams I'm really good at it. I play guitar often in waking life and write music sometimes, and I find it really annoying to remember dreaming of a song that was incredible but cannot possibly replicate it. Maybe music is just more powerful in dreams?

[FluBB]

i am also a 6 string bassist... i dont know if playing instruments really helps all that much. like it was mentioned before, you would have to have an amazing sense of your instrument and the piece you were working on to actually help. because how could it help if you play any note and it sounds good?

[Dannon Oneironaut]

It trains the mind. For example if you picked up the flute only once, or the guitar only once, and learned a few scales, but you have to think in order to play them. In the dream your subconscious mind is learning it so that when you are awake you won't have to think as hard. It will be more automatic. That is how I mastered bebop scales.

[jarrhead]

i am also a 6 string bassist... i dont know if playing instruments really helps all that much. like it was mentioned before, you would have to have an amazing sense of your instrument and the piece you were working on to actually help. because how could it help if you play any note and it sounds good? Interested in a 1999 Fender MIA Jazz 4? http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?t=610677 Im looking to fund for and SR5006. Great to hear aanother 6er! (Well, i'm a 6er, love 6s, etc. etc. etc. but I don't have a 6.) But yes, all that is true.

[FluBB]

oh no.. not an ibanez!!! one day you will see the light and get a carvin. i have a 15yr old LB76 and works like a dream. sorry i actually am interested in that bass but dont have the money ha ha. but back to the discussion.. It trains the mind. For example if you picked up the flute only once, or the guitar only once, and learned a few scales, but you have to think in order to play them. In the dream your subconscious mind is learning it so that when you are awake you won't have to think as hard. It will be more automatic. That is how I mastered bebop scales. that is so cool, i have only really thought of it as being a way to learn NEW songs, not practice regular old stuff like scales. it does make sense that people would be more comfortable with what they are playing if they play in in their dreams.

[MottusTa]

I don't have much experience LDing (just a few with very little control), but I definatley think that you can become better at any musical instrument by practicing it in a dream. Take guitar for instance...you have a piece of music that you know like the back of your hand..you know exactly where to put your fingers to play any certain part of the tune. You just want to practice to know the piece better. If you know a tune to this extent, what is the difference between practicing the piece in waking life or dream life? As you practice in your dream..it feels just the same as everyday normal practice and therefore becomes easier to play through in your waking life because it increases hearing, sight, and muscle memory. I think that this technique can work with any instrument. On a different note..I don't think that it is possible to actually write a song on your instrument and remember it when you wake up. You might remember where to put your fingers, or how the tune sounds...but the two won't match up unless you can write a tune in waking life without having your instrument in front of you. In a dream..the notes come out sounding how YOU want them to. Sorry to ramble..but in short - I think LDing can be a good way to develop cleaner playing; and also practice pieces and teqniques already learned...but it doesn't help much when used to try and learn new material in a dream.

[jarrhead]

one day you will see the light and get a carvin. i FluBB, can you tell me if this looks familiar to you? Steinberger XQ2 w/ EMG BQC preamp MIM Deluxe Jazz Sadowsky RV5 Carvin LB76 w/ Bartolini NTMB preamp Carvin BX500 Bergantino HT/EX 112's Mottus, as an accomplished bass player, I don't believe any of what you're saying is very true. There is a point where what you play is only to play it cleaner. However, you can't practice without the instrument. No matter how well you know the piece, the pressure you apply, your floating thumb, your action, your intonation, and the reactions to all that, will be off in a dream.

[MottusTa]

Mottus, as an accomplished bass player, I don't believe any of what you're saying is very true. There is a point where what you play is only to play it cleaner. However, you can't practice without the instrument. No matter how well you know the piece, the pressure you apply, your floating thumb, your action, your intonation, and the reactions to all that, will be off in a dream. Hi jarrhead, it's great to find other musicians also interested in LDing! No disrespect, but I DO believe that you can practice a piece of music without your instrument. You say that the pressure, and reactions etc will be off in the dream. That may be true for some people...but in my case, I study guitar at a university where I am required to play the same pieces over and over again every single day. The focus is on playing the piece the exact same way every single time so that when you walk on stage in front of people, you won't be nervous, because you have played the piece the exact same way a countless number of times. If I already know how the pressure, reactions etc..will feel like in waking life (because they are the same every time), then they will also be the same when I go to practice the piece in my dream.

[jarrhead]

Hi jarrhead, it's great to find other musicians also interested in LDing! No disrespect, but I DO believe that you can practice a piece of music without your instrument. You say that the pressure, and reactions etc will be off in the dream. That may be true for some people...but in my case, I study guitar at a university where I am required to play the same pieces over and over again every single day. The focus is on playing the piece the exact same way every single time so that when you walk on stage in front of people, you won't be nervous, because you have played the piece the exact same way a countless number of times. If I already know how the pressure, reactions etc..will feel like in waking life (because they are the same every time), then they will also be the same when I go to practice the piece in my dream. Hey mottus, Reading music and doing repetetive motions such as scale shapes and mode shapes, could work. Since you are thinking are building your muscle memory. The results of playing a musical piece that is something other than just scales over and over and over again, but written out, will not be exactly the same. Therefore I find it highly unlikely. Let's say you were to practice your phyrigian shapes or some other mode. (I get lost after the second mode.) Then yes, you could practice. As you won't be focusing on the sounds, but your shapes instead. This is building up muscle memory for something relatively new to you.

[MottusTa]

I understand where your coming from J..and this makes a lot of sense. But If you are at the stage, in learning a piece of music, where you have it totally memorized...you can just pick up a dream guitar, play through the piece as you do in waking life, and improve muscle memory on the peice of music. Just the same as you could build muscle memory for scales and other techniques. When I practice in waking life...I pay attention to my finger placement, the sound produced, and every little sensation I feel to play every note or chord. In my waking life I can visualize a part of a song and imagine how all of those details would feel if I were actaully playing it. I think that if you can do this..it is possible to practice playing a piece you know very well in your dreams. But again you have to know the piece very well before you can do this I think. Just a thought: As part of my practice routine, my professor makes me put ear plugs in, and do nothing but look at the sheet music and imagine all the physical sensations you would feel if you were playing. It seems to me that dream practice can almost replace this part of my practice routine.

[Tiklish]

Also, I'm very new to the idea of Lucid Dreaming. Do you think keeping a dream journal should be the first thing I start to do in order to obtain lucidity? Yes, keeping a journal absolutely is the first thing you should do. I use a voice-activated recorder so I don't even have to move. I can just start talking. Then you can listen later and type it up if you want to.

[jarrhead]

But as a dream you may have distorted sounds. You're not fully conscious unless you're highly lucid. And if you're not lucid at all, there's still a chance the sounds will be off. Say you're building muscle memory, you're also building hearing memory. You know how aggravating it is before you learn to keep going when you hit a wrong note. In a dream, even if your muscles are working fine, you may be hearing off-key. Even if it's just by 2 cents, it adds up across the strings. I would say it is ALMOST impossible to get it down to the 440 frequency with each note.

[FluBB]

FluBB, can you tell me if this looks familiar to you? i'm afraid it doesnt, but i do like the gear you posted. heres what i think. you can obviously get a good idea for a new song through dreams. tons of artists claim to get a lot of inspiration in their dreams. but i think the fine line is that you could get a melody or a verse, but if you were playing it on a instrument, i believe that it would be impossible to duplicate it exactly. not many people have a perfect knowledge of their instrument. you would need to know every note on your instrument in and out. obvioiusly thats possible but not very common with the regular old musician... i have what they call "absolute pitch" and i still find the idea nearly impossible.

[jarrhead]

I have great ear-training abilities as well, and I still don't see this very likely. The picture & gear was taken from the profile of a guy who tried to trade me a 6 string carvin for my jazz. You're a 6er and a Carvin guy so who knows.