Thread: WILD - Wake Initiated Lucid Dream

Hi Sageous and Gab
I have been reading through both your threads recently along with Sageouses fundamentals thread questions and answers on Wild - which is wonderful but taking ages to get through ha ha wonderful stuff tho really really good! Seriously

In one of your threads on the wild Gab - I came across one particular moment where you were guiding A fellow dreamer in their Wild attempts. The advice you gave struck a chord with me and I wrote it down somewhere and now I cannot find it - something about when you have the hypnagogic images going on for a little while can you pick a point in there in your mind take a point and you say "I am there " ! And then you go to that point- And the dream begins...

This advice struck a chord because it is almost where I have been getting but not quite getting and ofcourse wish to get fully into the dream...
I knew your advice had something for me. I have had quite a few lucid dream so far in a short time but they were all Mild or Dild probably more like Dild as I am a beginner my Mild technique is in very,very early stages. So although this has been the case and I often do wake back to bed and I often get to stages passed my body being very relaxed and twitches stopping, sensation stopping and sometimes I have got to a point where I feel my dream body moving on contorting - like I may feel my jaw my jawbone has dislocated and changed shape this kind of thing. Then recently I definitely noticed the vibration stage, but sometime after this I usually fall asleep or go into a very mellow relaxed state but don't go into any dream. The times that I did have Dild are usually after these attempts at Wild ; sometimes taking up to 2 hours of lying very very still ...then finally when I turned over onto my side and try to keep the lucid dream idea live in my mind as I fell asleep I had most of my Dild successes like this.
Anyway this morning I had many dreams and I knew I had a day off so I had a late lyin bed - with 12 hours of sleep and maybe 5 or 6 recorded dreams but failing to get a Lucid Dream. So by my last dream in the morning I decided as I lay in bed quietly that I wondered what was doing wrong - maybe my perception of it or the way I was saying the mantra maybe my self awareness, but there was something I needed to pinpoint...At that moment I experimented with the way I said the mantra and I felt myself saying "I am dreaming I am dreaming "in a very close way ...where I was almost whispering it to myself within myself ( not speaking out loud tho ) and then I noticed another way of saying it where I was almost saying it to another person outside me ( still not out loud tho - just in my mind )so in other words saying it further away and then I was saying the mantra into myself again...
As I carried on saying the mantra pointing it inwards "I am dreaming I am Dreaming" was bring it into myself obviously in my mind - I started to notice the hypnagogue near points and your advice to the dreamer above I mentioned came into my mind and I should pick pick one of these points and say "I am there".

So I did this and I found myself travelling towards this point and the experience was like nothing I had before like a tunnel I was going towards his point then - Indian music started playing quite loudly ...a enjoyable sound. As it played louder and clearer -I went moving faster towards what point, which I imagined was the dream scene starting to emerge - uuuggghh for some reason I decided to experiment and pull myself back from it slowly so as to really get a feel for this surge that was happening...I felt a surge of going forward and the surge as coming out,and of course at this point I wanted to feel the search going back in again however it didn't happen. I was really annoyed with myself.... And of course happy about having the experience but really wished I'd got in and stayed in the dream scene!
Now I've managed to get that far to do it once do you think that I will be able to do it easily again - of course I want to trust myself that I can but I'm so excited about the fact that I actually managed to do something close what I've been reading about all these months can you give me some advice going forward?

Thank you both and to all at dream views - I'm so grateful to have this inspiring place to come and see these inspiring people like yourselfs sharing your experience and knowledge for others to learn - its wonderful

Originally Posted by Patience108

Now I've managed to get that far to do it once do you think that I will be able to do it easily again - of course I want to trust myself that I can but I'm so excited about the fact that I actually managed to do something close what I've been reading about all these months can you give me some advice going forward?

It seems like you've already carved a nice path for yourself, Patience, and the best advice I can think of is that you stick to your plan. You might not be able to do it more easily next time, but you still might be able to do it... and if you keep to your technique, with practice and experience it eventually should be a lot easier.

The only thing I can suggest beyond that is something you've probably read once or twice on my thread: try not to pay so much attention to the noise. Your failure above was probably directly related to your urge to check out that surge. Also, if you can convince yourself that there really is no vibration stage, or really any stages at all, you won't find yourself making those stages important enough that your WILD is spoiled by their absence or your excitement about their presence.

Your use of HI is an excellent idea, but if you make the HI more important than the dream (i.e., going back to check out that surge), you will probably not make it to the dream. Ironically, from your account above, I would say that you might have already been in your dream, and left it behind to check out the surge.

So: stick to your plan, it's a good one, but try to make the noise less important.

Thank you Sageous -

I did read through the tutorial on noise and thought about - realised I did want to lucid dream much more than I want to have the experiences on the way - so in the meantime I am doing my best to make the noise unimportant. Shall I go on to next Lesson?

I also have been reading through the fundamentals questions and answers and enjoying it immensely as my interest in self awareness has been there since I was a teenager and maybe befor - I think that the understanding of self awareness that I have been cultivating is very similar to what you speak of. One that involves being present, being aware of one's being - feelings, emotions, knowing clearly that they have an impact on those and stuff around and about - things simply do bounce back from past interactions to my future and into this present moment, the connection in undeniable - where I have my feet on the floor making an impact ...the sounds I can hear how i may get enjoyment or not. As I sit with my back feeling warm against the seat I know that this has been generated because of this connection of my being here! My friends smiling face looking at me - this is the connection we have kindled in this moment and past and if I wish we can go on . In this way It is evident at this moments pause, in this moment, that there is continuous flow of connection going on between myself and my surroundings

- however making sure I have the soft focus on myself allows me to feel grounded here and as you say to have some feeling of existence. This is kind of soft feeling of existence, a gentle touch - when I feel my breath coming to and throw I know there is a connection. Sure it is not always full of joy or excitement but nor is it bad - this simple act for me brings a feeling of knowing...and it's as if one knows where one is - whatever is going on one knows where one is in things.

I have been doing regular practice of the above RRC and then a quick RC i.e working on Memory with expectation and intention through looking a little back and into the future- looking into this Connection between me and my environment so bringing memory of what has happened in recent past is happening now or may happen in a short time in the future. Asking is this a dream? Could it be a dream? Then to kindle expectation with some visualisation. Then quick RC.

Is remembering to experiencing like this regularly through out the day enough to say I am practicing RRC?

So on my day off I did have lots of sleep- many dreams but not LD .Once again tho in the very very late morning after lots of sleep this morning - I began to notice the little snippets of dreams - following them gently on and then ...me finding myself awake in the bed then within the forming dreams again then back awake in bed..my awareness somehow was not strong enough to latch onto any of them moments to see them as lucid - but I feel on the verge in these moments....then there was one almost - like my last experience of almost "diving "into wild ( now I know the term dive!) ;

- I was with my mother and we are watching the television.So on the television there was a TV show host asking us,the public, if this has actually happened in real life and they showed a clip (like a gameshow) .So on the t.v they showed a clip of a machine printing out numbers and The game show Host asked - "in 1982 was there a bill asking The general public to change their Front door numbers to a new number (which ever number they were given) ?"
I said to my mother this is incorrect this is wrong it didn't happen - my mum said "no it's true!"
as I stared into the television I heard my mother's voice saying "it's true,it's true "
and as I heard her voice saying this I began to use the images on the TV has a HI.I started moving towards it drawing the images towards myself and before I knew it was becoming self-aware and remembering that this was a feeling that I had before when trying for wild, then started to go towards the HI more and more but... - I started to wake up and didn't quite make it through again tho

There were also some more attempts during the morning and other mornings this week that consisted mainly of wake back to bed - stayed up for about an hour. Then relaxing getting the HI but always seeming to drift off to sleep before actually reaching the dream I must find a better anchor maybe you could give me some help with this.I did find the 61 point relaxation you mentioned and have been doing this but still managed to drift off - then quite often I will wake up when I'm in the dream or just after and be slightly annoyed that I am in the dream ... It's like a kind of jolt of being in the dream then brings me back to being awake again.

Anyway sorry for the very long post but I don't get much time during the week and so here it is everything poured out in one go! Any help and suggestions most welcome
Thanks very much for your support ( all that you have done that helps us all now !) and input - its very much appreciated

Originally Posted by Patience108

I did read through the tutorial on noise and thought about - realised I did want to lucid dream much more than I want to have the experiences on the way - so in the meantime I am doing my best to make the noise unimportant. Shall I go on to next Lesson?

Sure. But keep in mind that this tutorial is not part of my DVA WILD class; feel free to ask questions on the Q&A thread on that forum, if you have any.

I also have been reading through the fundamentals questions and answers and enjoying it immensely as my interest in self awareness has been there since I was a teenager and maybe befor - I think that the understanding of self awareness that I have been cultivating is very similar to what you speak of. One that involves being present, being aware of one's being - feelings, emotions, knowing clearly that they have an impact on those and stuff around and about - things simply do bounce back from past interactions to my future and into this present moment, the connection in undeniable - where I have my feet on the floor making an impact ...the sounds I can hear how i may get enjoyment or not. As I sit with my back feeling warm against the seat I know that this has been generated because of this connection of my being here! My friends smiling face looking at me - this is the connection we have kindled in this moment and past and if I wish we can go on . In this way It is evident at this moments pause, in this moment, that there is continuous flow of connection going on between myself and my surroundings

I have been doing regular practice of the above RRC and then a quick RC i.e working on Memory with expectation and intention through looking a little back and into the future- looking into this Connection between me and my environment so bringing memory of what has happened in recent past is happening now or may happen in a short time in the future. Asking is this a dream? Could it be a dream? Then to kindle expectation with some visualisation. Then quick RC.

Is remembering to experiencing like this regularly through out the day enough to say I am practicing RRC?

Sure.

There were also some more attempts during the morning and other mornings this week that consisted mainly of wake back to bed - stayed up for about an hour. Then relaxing getting the HI but always seeming to drift off to sleep before actually reaching the dream I must find a better anchor maybe you could give me some help with this.I did find the 61 point relaxation you mentioned and have been doing this but still managed to drift off - then quite often I will wake up when I'm in the dream or just after and be slightly annoyed that I am in the dream ... It's like a kind of jolt of being in the dream then brings me back to being awake again.

The 61 points technique is actually a method for relaxation and not an anchor, so it seems to have worked just fine for you. My preferred anchor is a mantra, and I do have a session dedicated to them in my WILD class, here; hopefully that will help.

That jolt you mention should eventually be less of a problem as you accumulate experience. In the meantime, though, you might use a mantra that counters the jolt (like, "I'm dreaming; I'm calm), because with WILD you are very likely to bring your mantra right into the dream with you.

Thanks Sageous been working a bit with the 4th lesson of prep - working with the Schema - i have had a few near Wilds, will hit the spot one of theese days

So Sageous watching h.i but not taking too much notice of it - right? Had a few mornings of interesting times trying to take note of the chema as i notice the shapes and wonder what they could turn into ... is that right. This has moved into little scenes etc a few times and another time the Hi started to look like an animals Fur ... then later the dream was of a fury animals head, then another, then the animal itsself a little further away - knew I was dreaming and reached out to touch the fury head, coulnt find my hand - then tried to RC and woke up - came out of the dream ..

.Yes, working with staying calm ! Playing with various mantras that remind me I am dreaming and to stay calm as I am safe - is it ok to work with different Mantras all the time or should one find one that is used for a long time?

^^ First, Patience, please remember that this is not my thread, and is not attached to the DVA WILD class session you mention. I'm sure Gab doesn't mind this, but to avoid confusion and maintain the integrity of her thread, I suggest, again, that you bring these things up in the appropriate WILD DVA thread, probably the What Happened? thread in this case. But as long as I'm here:

Originally Posted by Patience108

So Sageous watching h.i but not taking too much notice of it - right?

Right!

Except that your entire report seems to be about watching HI:

Had a few mornings of interesting times trying to take note of the schema as i notice the shapes and wonder what they could turn into ... is that right.

Not quite, but close:

I'm not sure that what you described quite fit the bill for schemas. Schemas are what your mind creates perceptually from those furry heads, and not the furry heads themselves (I'll hold off on describing schemas further, since they are described in the WILD class session you referenced). I think perhaps that those furry heads were actually HI, or dreamlets, which meant that you were still straddling the fence between wake and sleep, so you weren't quite dreaming yet.

So yes, those furry heads were random objects (HI, probably, maybe a dreamlet) that you could have used to form a dream scene (maybe bunching them together to form a wavy grass field, or a thick shag rug in your favorite room), but they were not dream schemas in and of themselves. To assume that they are your dream is to maybe jump the gun a bit, and throw you off your WILD dive. This would explain why your hand disappeared (you didn't have a dream body yet) and why you woke up (you weren't fully asleep yet). When the dream finally arrives -- or when you fully form one yourself, you will know it....be patient, Patience! (sorry, that needed to be done once)

is it ok to work with different Mantras all the time or should one find one that is used for a long time?

Certainly. I use a mantra that corresponds to my particular dream goal, so mine change often. However, I also have a generic mantra ("Here & Now") on which I fall back whenever I need an extra push or perhaps I change my mind about my goals mid dive (which I do a lot, but do not recommend!). I've been using this generic mantra for over 30 years now, and it has proven quite handy.

So I guess the answer here is that you can certainly change your mantra as frequently as you like, but added the tip is that you keep one familiar standard mantra in your mental pocket just in case your chosen mantra isn't working.

Hi Gab - Sorry for putting questions in wrongplace - but while you are here I actualy realy wanted to tell you something - it almost happened a 2nd time where I saw a very particular spot of h.i after some time of staying still and thought it was a " I am there !" Moment - I missed it but a split second after I thought it had been one of those moments... Can you tell me more about when you first started doing that?

Originally Posted by Patience108

Hi Gab ... it almost happened a 2nd time where I saw a very particular spot of h.i after some time of staying still and thought it was a " I am there !" Moment - I missed it but a split second after I thought it had been one of those moments... Can you tell me more about when you first started doing that?

Sorry, I just saw this : (

I came up with " I... am... there" after many attempts in which I was not able to enter a dream. I read so many tutorials saying "and then just enter the dream", but it never said how exactly. I WILDed, got to the point where I saw a fully formed dream but I didn't know how to "cross the line", how to put myself from "here" to "there", to become a participant in it instead of just observer. I just needed that one last step. Now I realize I was already in the dream, since I was already dreaming, but I needed the realization, the symbolic transfer from "watching the TV" to "being in the TV". Saying I am there and visualizing myself in some spot in the dream actually gave me physical sensation of movement, a "whoooosh" that moved me from my sofa to the dream.

Mind you, this is only one of the several methods of entering a dream. It used to be my favorite one when I was getting HH and dreamlets and saw a dream forming every time I WILDed.

After many LDs via this entry, I stopped having HH and dreamlets. They were replaced with me getting a very strong sensation of flying head first at warp speed. Most of the time I felt like being dragged on some bumpy surface, like when you watch airplane during turbulance. I usually don't see anything during this flight. But once I opened my dream eyes and I was flying in space near some beautiful pink nebula.

Another movement sensation/transition is me falling backwards. This is sometimes accompanied with image of falling into some deep space. I never hit the bottom and normally bungee back from there. I don't think I ever made entry into LD from here.

Even so, I love this sensation of falling backwards and still use it sometimes to get in the "WILDing mood", to kick start the process. I read this long time ago from post by our former Dream Guide Leader matte87. I had no idea how to do it. But it's really simple once you experience it. You just imagine you are falling backwards. After some tries you may even start to feel the sensation a bit, just like recalling sensation of being on a roller coaster. When you try this and you actually start falling backwards, you know you are in the transition phase.

I like this so much, that sometimes while in the transition doing something else, I find a chair or anything and fall backwards from it.

My current way of entering LDs is getting up from my sofa with my dream body. After realizing that I can see when I know I have my eyes closed, or just getting the feeling that I am dreaming, I stand up from my body and walk away into the dream. I used to have a distinct realization "I am lucid in a dream" after standing up. As if it clicked fully that I'm dreaming only after I stood up. Now I don't have that anymore, I know from the start.

Second way is to roll out of your sleeping body. This is soooo much fun. It amazes me every time and makes me giggle like crazy when I am so sure I'm gonna hit the floor and make a fool out of myself, but instead I land so softly as if landing on the cloud. The surprise of not hitting the floor is incredibly strong.

I still prefer to stand up, because here I don't lose vision like I do when I'm rolling out.

Next method is to levitate out of your body. You can do this same way as standing up or rolling out. By giving yourself a mental command to do so. Just simply think of standing up, rolling or going higher and it will happen.

Once I thought "stand up" and I stood up on the end of the bed, without bending knees or anything. Like a log. That was freaky and surprising.

So, since I never know what will happen, either HH or movement or see through eyelids, I'm ready for everything every time I WILD. Without expecting anything.

I watch the back of my eyelids for visual clues, pay attention if I start to see my room, I wiggle my "inner" body from side to side to start the rolling out movement. I try to invoke the falling backwards sensation. I also go through my dream goals which are current challenges from task of the month thread Tasks of the Month & Year.

I also recite my mantra which is usually something I want to accomplish in the lucid and "I am dreaming" mantra.

Good luck and please ask for anything else

Hey guys i have been trying to WILD for 2 weeks now, I'm not sure if the technique i have been using is WILD.
My steps are:
1- Wake up after 4 hours of sleep ( I wake up without an alarm, my body just wakes up by its self )
2- I directly roll over to my back, relax my body, remove any tension from my muscles, try to stay still and clear my mind from any thoughts.
3- Usually after 40 minutes or so my body will be tingling and I'll feel very numb specially on my legs-arms. I'll feel very relaxed.
4- I roll over to my sleeping position, after 5 minutes or so I'll get to the hypnagogic stage. Usually I'll enter my dream from the hypnagogic stage directly.

Is this technique called WILD?
Is It possible to have an OBE during the hypnagogic stage?

Way my LD are so short ? My first LD was a RCILD or DILD and i get so happy about it i start laugh and stuff and i wake up ..
But with the WILD technique i find myself in the dream i do a RC and i say "cool this is a dream " and after i fly or run for 15-20 sec it's over ,,
ps : most of the time i use DEILD to continue my short dream and same thing happends an other 20 sec dream .

Originally Posted by sysssej

Hey guys i have been trying to WILD for 2 weeks now, I'm not sure if the technique i have been using is WILD.
My steps are:
1- Wake up after 4 hours of sleep ( I wake up without an alarm, my body just wakes up by its self )
2- I directly roll over to my back, relax my body, remove any tension from my muscles, try to stay still and clear my mind from any thoughts.
3- Usually after 40 minutes or so my body will be tingling and I'll feel very numb specially on my legs-arms. I'll feel very relaxed.
4- I roll over to my sleeping position, after 5 minutes or so I'll get to the hypnagogic stage. Usually I'll enter my dream from the hypnagogic stage directly.

Is this technique called WILD?
Is It possible to have an OBE during the hypnagogic stage?

It is WILDing. But you should add WBTB - wake, back to bed. http://www.dreamviews.com/wild/13205...-2-timing.html

But if your point # 4 means that you enter LD, then congrats!

Originally Posted by sakubal

Way my LD are so short ? My first LD was a RCILD or DILD and i get so happy about it i start laugh and stuff and i wake up ..
But with the WILD technique i find myself in the dream i do a RC and i say "cool this is a dream " and after i fly or run for 15-20 sec it's over ,,
ps : most of the time i use DEILD to continue my short dream and same thing happends an other 20 sec dream .

Sometimes the excitement wakes us up from a LD. After you had more LDs, you will learn to control the excitement and your LDs will be longer.

EDIT: Nevermind

Hey Gab ! I tried last night an alarm that's auto dismiss in order do WILD, so the alarm wake's me up (just mentally) i did not move at all, and i get this uncomfortable feeling all over my body and i resisted not to move like 10 min or so and then it get's to painful and i change position . After an hour of sleep i tried again and same thing .

- i think this is the part where the vibrations come, but i don't know how to do it
Tell me what to do/think/not think next time.
-peace-

Hi sakubal!

In order to WILD, you need to WBTB. 'BTB' means back-to bed. Meaning you need to get out of the bed, stay up for a bit then go back and WILD.

I recommend you read this WILD

I'm so glad I read this. I had tried visualising numbers in my head as I had thought this would be a good opportunity to practice visualisation.
Unfortunately I watched a video that told me I must clear my mind of all thoughts in order to LD, so I promptly stopped doing this.
This is fantastic if I can use the counting technique visualising the numbers with different shapes/backgrounds/colours etc (keeps me entertained) as I have done this counting in meditation practises before.

If I practise WILD as an early evening nap time and fall a sleep enough times or hopefully WILD then will my body clock not set itself so that I REM sleep
at that time each day?

Thanks again DV i'm finding this community a total goldmine of information.

Originally Posted by MeohMyoh

If I practise WILD as an early evening nap time and fall a sleep enough times or hopefully WILD then will my body clock not set itself so that I REM sleep
at that time each day?

I am not 100% sure on this but it seems to be that LDing works best when you do not NEED the sleep. I find naps in the first 5 hours of being awake are great for hitting REM, but the later/tireder I try the less it works. A nap a couple hour before bedtime, is basically the same as trying at bedtime.

Can someone please tell me if it's still considered WILD if you feel sensations, enter a dream, but feel that you may have lost some consciousness for a few seconds before doing so? Or is WILD no loss of consciousness at all when entering a dream?

^^ WILD is indeed the transition from wake to sleep to dream without losing waking-life self-awareness (consciousness), so if you lose consciousness during a WILD attempt, then you didn't do a complete WILD. However, you did wind up lucid, no doubt thanks to all the things you were doing when attempting the WILD, so who cares, right? Lucidity is the goal here, and in the end it really doesn't matter how you got there.

another weird thing happened to me. i woke up about 4-5 hrs later for a wbtb and stayed up for about 2 minutes. i then went back to sleep and got comfortable to do an ssild. but before i was even able to start, weird stuff started appearing in the blackness of my eyes. i looked at what it was and they where images. there were about 8 of them. they then vanished and one big image was all i could see. somehow, i ended p getting sucked up into that image but i couldn't do anything. i wasn't able to control myself or do anything at all, even just move. im guessing this was a wild, but i don't know why i wants able to do anything.

Ok, I read the thing. But I don't get if you are supposed to stay up until REM starts, or wake up before it starts. help?

P.S. theres no new podcasts on itunes since 2013

Please reply!!

^^ You really can't stay up waiting for REM to start, because it won't start while you are awake. If you are referring to how long you should do a WBTB, I recommend that you stay up for at least 15 minutes, but no more than an hour.

If you are doing your WBTB after 5 or so hours of sleep, your REM periods are pretty close together and -- given that you generally wake up right at the end of a REM period -- it's a good idea to stay up for a little while so you can start your WILD when the next period is about to begin, and not during NREM.

That said, I wouldn't worry too much about REM periods, or whether you are timing things well enough to catch one; it's really not as important as these forums make it sound. The other, and for me much more important purpose of WBTB is to give you a little time to gather some waking-life self-awareness before you make your WILD attempt while your body is still in general sleep mode.

So I guess the real answer is don't worry about REM. Just do your WBTB after several hours' sleep, stay focused on your dream, and you will likely find yourself in REM when you go back to sleep. Keep in mind, though, that it might take a few attempts before you find find that sweet spot of when to get up and how long to stay up.

I don't know anything about the podcasts, so I can't help you there.

Welcome to DV's, BTW!

Originally Posted by Sageous

Keep in mind, though, that it might take a few attempts before you find find that sweet spot of when to get up and how long to stay up.
!

If this were martial art the saying would be "100 times to learn it, 1000 times to get good at it." So, yes a few attempts. Be patient, it will come with enough intent and experimenting.

^^ I guess I was applying a bit of friendly understatement there, huh?

(sry by the advanced type of answere, quick answere didnt work for some reason, answere with quote either)

So im back guys to lucid dream after about 3 years,thanks for a spontan WILD<---sounds wierd,right?
Happened recently after a full afternoon sport activity, that my body was dead tired when i got to home.
Laid down, and it was an amazing feeling for my body, it was so good, so i told myself, i dont wanna fall asleep, i need to feel this until a get up, the sleep was not planned.

I was going into the dream directly with my mind aware of that.Before that i had experienced massive visual hallucinations (orange colored patterns, started with a couple i kept watching them, and with time it was a lot of patterns.It was like exectly like when u switch on the tv and no signal, except the colore was orange.)

I truly believe that, the chance is much better for a wild when u are exhausted.U dont even need to be very sleepy.
I induced even without trying it
so im back, although i will try another methods, since i dont live with sports activities very often any more.
i'll try the fild method, or deild or some kind of dild

ohh and sorry if my english was a pain for u guys, i've given my best
understanding better, not writing, but its much better than nothing.