Thread: Zodiac Changes

Awesome, thanks.

Tropical signs haven't changed, although having watched that it's clear they should have if astrology was valid. The only reason they haven't is that people dogmatically stuck to the same dates that were true 2,000 years ago without realising they'd ever change. It's pretty funny, really.

The only thing that bothers me about this Zodiac thing is the 13th "sign". 12 is the number of completion. 13 just creeps me out. Call me superstitious, but I don't like that.

Anyway, the changes don't affect those born before 2009 anyway. I've never been an avid follower of the Zodiac, but I do think Libra, my sign, does describe me pretty well. I just can't ignore the fact that a 13th "sign" has been (re)announced. o_o

Actually 13 is the number of completion. 13 times 28 days is 364, which is exactly a year. 28 days is a moon cycle. Makes a lot more sense to me.

Originally Posted by KristaNicole07

The only thing that bothers me about this Zodiac thing is the 13th "sign". 12 is the number of completion. 13 just creeps me out. Call me superstitious, but I don't like that.

Anyway, the changes don't affect those born before 2009 anyway. I've never been an avid follower of the Zodiac, but I do think Libra, my sign, does describe me pretty well. I just can't ignore the fact that a 13th "sign" has been (re)announced. o_o

How can an astrological sign "describe" you?

Originally Posted by ChaybaChayba

13 times 28 days is 364, which is exactly a year. 28 days is a moon cycle.

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Wait... I swear I remember Chayba saying that like, 3 years ago.

No, your zodiac sign hasn't changed – This Just In - CNN.com Blogs

I hope I'm helping here. Saw this a couple days ago.

Well, at least the zodiac signs still mean absolutely nothing

Originally Posted by Xei

Wait... I swear I remember Chayba saying that like, 3 years ago.

Haha. Good memory. I've said it many times to see if anyone has any input on this idea, but only input I get is "??????", ie: a blank stare on the face.

If you use 13 months of 28 days each, you no longer need to have months of alternating 30 or 31, and you no longer need to have a special month each 4 years. Mathematically speaking, it makes more sense to divide a year into 13 months as this would lead to an equal division of 28 days for each month. And as it happens to be, a moon's cycle, is 28 days (or 27.5), not 30 or 31

Winter. Spring. Summer. Fall. = 4

Beginning. Middle. End. = 3

= 12 zodiac signs. The end.

Originally Posted by ChaybaChayba

Haha. Good memory. I've said it many times to see if anyone has any input on this idea, but only input I get is "??????", ie: a blank stare on the face.

If you use 13 months of 28 days each, you no longer need to have months of alternating 30 or 31, and you no longer need to have a special month each 4 years. Mathematically speaking, it makes more sense to divide a year into 13 months as this would lead to an equal division of 28 days for each month. And as it happens to be, a moon's cycle, is 28 days (or 27.5), not 30 or 31

A year is not "exactly 364 days", it is 365 days (on a non-leap year calendar, in theory it is ~365.25 days). I am astonished you got this wrong (multiple times apparently).

The synodic month, or moon cycle as you put it, is on average ~29.5 days long, not 28 days. 15 seconds of research on wiki will tell you that.

Yeah ok I don't really know about the zodiac signs I was kinda arguing about the moon cycles. Native americans used 13 moons for example, so did native europeans, it was with the colonization and the replacement of the religion by christianity that the 13 got replaced by 12 for the sake of breaking the logic in the native system. 13 Moon Calendar Tutorial

A moon cycle is 28 days, a womans menstruation cycle is 28 days. Exactly 4 weeks go into 28 days, 4x7 is 28. 13 times 28 is 364, exactly a year. No need for special years or alternating month lengths.

Maybe someting similar happened with the zodiac signs? That would explain the 13th sign.

Originally Posted by Spartiate

A year is not "exactly 364 days", it is 365 days (on a non-leap year calendar, in theory it is ~365.25 days). I am astonished you got this wrong (multiple times apparently).

The synodic month, or moon cycle as you put it, is on average ~29.5 days long, not 28 days. 15 seconds of research on wiki will tell you that.

Yes but a few more seconds on wiki would tell you that pretty much all the other months are 27.x days. Youre right about a year tho

Originally Posted by Wiki

anomalistic month 27.554549878 − 0.000000010390 × Y days
sidereal month 27.321661547 + 0.000000001857 × Y days
tropical month 27.321582241 + 0.000000001506 × Y days
draconic month 27.212220817 + 0.000000003833 × Y days
synodic month 29.530588853 + 0.000000002162 × Y days

Originally Posted by ChaybaChayba

Yes but a few more seconds on wiki would tell you that pretty much all the other months are 27.x days. Youre right about a year tho

The synodic month is the time it takes for the moon to go through all its phases (new moon to new moon). That's usually what people think of when you say lunar month. The other sorts of months are largely irrelevant to the common man and have to do with the moon's orbit and its celestial coordinates.

But don't you agree, that 4 times 7 days in a week making 28 days going into one month, and 13 times 28 days resulting in 364 days, making one year, is a way more elegant solution than the current system we have now? And if this was the original system we used long ago, why change this system, into a system which does not make mathematical sense? Also the argument about that the other months are irrelevant to common man does not make sense as common man, before the change of the system, used this 28 days going into one month as this was natural.

The very basic idea that the native religions shared was that everything goes in cycles. And that we as humans harmonize with these cycles. The womans menstruation cycle is for example 28 days. The very purpose of the christian system was to sabotage the inherent logic of the colonized countries for the sake of surpressing the masses. The romans did not only introduce a new religion when they colonized, but they also introduced a new calendar system, the gregorian calendar.

What I'm arguing here is that the calendar we use today is an artificial installation which was developed by the roman empire upon colonization of Europe for the sake of replacing the natural calendar of 13 months as this would break the inherent mathematical logic of cycles behind the native religion. And that is where the 13th zodiac sign might come from.

Originally Posted by BLUELINE976

How can an astrological sign "describe" you?

Just the description of the Libra personality I suppose. It doesn't describe me perfectly, but I doubt many peoples' signs do.

I just think Zodiac is fun, I'm not an avid follower. I don't base my life off of my horoscopes or anything.

The Hindis have been using sidereal astrology, which has always taken into account the procession of the equinoxes. They have known about this forever. Tropical astrology, what the west used is actually based on the seasons rather than the stars. The constellations are just illustrations for the story for them. For example: The sign aries is the first fire sign, signified by a spark, and it always falls on the Spring Equinox (which symbolizes the spark of life and seeds germinating), not when the sun actually moves into the constellation. Leo, the second fire sign, is signified by a bonfire at the height of summer. Sagittarius, the last fire sign, signified by embers, always ends at the winter solstice, the darkest time of year. So, Nina is right, in tropical astrology nothing has changed. And nothing has changed for the Hindu Vedic astrology either, because they have always known about this.

Why don't we post our Zodiac sign? I am a Gemini.

Originally Posted by ChaybaChayba

But don't you agree, that 4 times 7 days in a week making 28 days going into one month, and 13 times 28 days resulting in 364 days, making one year, is a way more elegant solution than the current system we have now? And if this was the original system we used long ago, why change this system, into a system which does not make mathematical sense? Also the argument about that the other months are irrelevant to common man does not make sense as common man, before the change of the system, used this 28 days going into one month as this was natural.

The very basic idea that the native religions shared was that everything goes in cycles. And that we as humans harmonize with these cycles. The womans menstruation cycle is for example 28 days. The very purpose of the christian system was to sabotage the inherent logic of the colonized countries for the sake of surpressing the masses. The romans did not only introduce a new religion when they colonized, but they also introduced a new calendar system, the gregorian calendar.

What I'm arguing here is that the calendar we use today is an artificial installation which was developed by the roman empire upon colonization of Europe for the sake of replacing the natural calendar of 13 months as this would break the inherent mathematical logic of cycles behind the native religion. And that is where the 13th zodiac sign might come from.

The Roman calendar started with 10 months, then changed to 12, then stayed at 12 when they started using the Julian calendar which lasted until the end of the Roman Empire. The Gregorian calendar, which we use today, was created in the 16th century. There has never been a 13 month calendar in the West that I know of.

13 is a horrible number because it isn't divisible by anything. With 12 months you have four seasons of three months, a half year of six months, three trimesters of four months, etc. The number 12 has a ton of factors.

I believe that the Jews use a 13 month calendar. Also, the Mayan calendar is very popular 13 month calendar right now. I propose that we make 8 days a week so we can all have a long week end.
Yes, we originally had 10 months. September, October, November, and December mean 7, 8, 9, 10. Julius Caesar added July, and Augustus Caesar added August.
12 months is very convenient for the seasons. The actual tropical zodiac would be a very nice calendar, based on the equinoxes and solstices. However, this is based on the sun, which a year should be. But the word month means moon, so months don't quite fit. There are not actually 13 full moon cycles in a year. If you don't believe me look at a moon calendar. There may be a blue moon somewhere in the year, but that moon cycle isn't brought to conclusion before the next year starts.
There is no convenient way to reconcile both the solar year and the lunar months. However, 13 months of 28 days and an extra day as a holiday (day outside of time) works pretty nicely, but then the months don't fit the seasons. The Mayans have made an art of this and reconciled it completely, but it is way more complicated than what we are used to.

Actually July and August existed before the Caesars as Quintilis and Sextilis, they just changed the names . The reason for the month names (october -> 8, November -> 9, etc.) is because the Roman calendar used to start in March.

I don't think the Mayans really had to worry about seasons so close to the equator, it's not like they had winter or anything.

Originally Posted by Spartiate

The Roman calendar started with 10 months, then changed to 12, then stayed at 12 when they started using the Julian calendar which lasted until the end of the Roman Empire. The Gregorian calendar, which we use today, was created in the 16th century. There has never been a 13 month calendar in the West that I know of.

13 is a horrible number because it isn't divisible by anything. With 12 months you have four seasons of three months, a half year of six months, three trimesters of four months, etc. The number 12 has a ton of factors.

Did you even understand the argument I'm making here? Divide 364 by 13 and you end up with 28. Which is exactly one month. Pure coincidence? I don't think so. 28 days is 4 weeks of 7 days. Whereas if you divide 364 into 12, you end up with months of 30 31 30 31.. how will you fit weeks of 7 days into those months? It does not make any sense at all.

And yes, a calender of 13 months was the original calendar in the west. It doesn't mean you don't know of it that it doesn't exist. How about doing some research?
Celtic 13 moon calendar - Celtic astrology - tribe.net



Both in Europe and America they used a 13 moon calender before the replacement of the native religion with christanity. This is a historical fact. You can't argue with this. Yet you do. Amazing.

Originally Posted by Dannon Oneironaut

The Hindis have been using sidereal astrology, which has always taken into account the procession of the equinoxes. They have known about this forever. Tropical astrology, what the west used is actually based on the seasons rather than the stars. The constellations are just illustrations for the story for them. For example: The sign aries is the first fire sign, signified by a spark, and it always falls on the Spring Equinox (which symbolizes the spark of life and seeds germinating), not when the sun actually moves into the constellation. Leo, the second fire sign, is signified by a bonfire at the height of summer. Sagittarius, the last fire sign, signified by embers, always ends at the winter solstice, the darkest time of year. So, Nina is right, in tropical astrology nothing has changed. And nothing has changed for the Hindu Vedic astrology either, because they have always known about this.

Why don't we post our Zodiac sign? I am a Gemini.

Exactly right. I am also a Gemini.

Originally Posted by ChaybaChayba

Did you even understand the argument I'm making here? Divide 364 by 13 and you end up with 28. Which is exactly one month. Pure coincidence? I don't think so. 28 days is 4 weeks of 7 days. Whereas if you divide 364 into 12, you end up with months of 30 31 30 31.. how will you fit weeks of 7 days into those months? It does not make any sense at all.

Why are you so obsessed with 364, there are 365 (or 366) days in a year. Is it so difficult for you to live with alternating number of days per month? I much prefer that to having seasons that are 3.25 months long. Also as I have said before, a lunation is ~29.5 days long. Your month doesn't even follow the phases of the moon.

How is having 13 months of 28 days going to make... anything... better?

And yes, a calender of 13 months was the original calendar in the west. It doesn't mean you don't know of it that it doesn't exist. How about doing some research?
Celtic 13 moon calendar - Celtic astrology - tribe.net

The Celts were insignificant barbarians that were completely annihilated by the Romans, from which Western culture is based. Who gives a shit about what some tribe living in mud huts used millennia ago, their culture is dead today. As I have said, the Romans used a calendar of 10, then 12 months.

Both in Europe and America they used a 13 moon calender before the replacement of the native religion with christanity. This is a historical fact. You can't argue with this. Yet you do. Amazing.

I suppose you want to live in tipis and caves like natives did before civilization kicked in?

What's even more amazing is how consistently wrong you are. Civilized Europe used the 12-month Julian calendar (named after Julius Caesar) since the end of the Roman Republic (45 BC) to the Renaissance (papal bull of 1582). The Roman Empire adopted Christianity as its official religion in the year 380.

You argue a moon cycle is 29.5 days, so how does the gregorian calendar make sense then if it uses months of alternating number of days? On top of that, it is 27.5 days according to pretty much all other systems. So using 28 days makes much more sense. 13x28 is 364, you only need to add one more day, whereas the gregorian calendar is a total mess. What you are doing is defending an artificial installation which true purpose is to surpress the masses by hiding the fact that we are in synchronization with nature, to hide the fact that even womans menstruation cycles of 28 days are in synchronization with nature. It is to hide the inherent mathematical logic of the natural cycles on which the native religons were based, both in Europe and in America. That is the true idea behind the gregorian/julian calender introduced by our roman oppressors. You seem to think the calender is more "civilized" eventho it doesn't make mathematical sense.

How do you explain the number 13 then Spartiate? I'm still waiting for your explanation. Up until now you have completely ignored this point of the 13th zodiac sign, which is pretty much what this topic is about.

Anyway I'm talking about historical and mathematical facts here, I still fail to see how you can argue with this.