Hello Folks!

[Janissary]

Hi people! I'm pretty new here, and what a nice place this is ^-^ I would like to tell a little about myself first, and I've got some few questions, that I would like to ask. I'm a medical student and illustrator, living in Denmark. About a year ago, I saw something about lucid dreaming, which sounded pretty interesting. I started reading and studying about it, and would really like to try it (who wouldn't?). At that time, I started writing my dream journal, but only made it enough to write two pages, that is like 7 nights with a total of 16 dreams (most of them short, though - mainly beacuse I was writing just when I woke up, even during the nights). For some reason, I slowly forgot about lucid dreaming (never had a lucid dream), and few days ago, I started reading about it again. My few questions: 1) I've had tons of experiences with sleep paralysis, and have developed different methods to overcome it, and, in sort of way, control it. I know when I'm having sleep paralysis, and can, with a little effort, get out of it - sometimes it is happening a few times in a week.. It's very different. I would like to ask if sleep paralysis could be linked to lucid dreaming in some ways? Can you progress from sleep paralysis to lucid dreaming in a kind of way? 2) Just because I'm a little interested: to the ones who can control their lucid dreams: have you ever tried sleeping and dreaming during a lucid dream? If yes: are you having a lucid dream in that stage too, and how does it feel? 3) Can someone help me getting better at this? I hope you can and will help me ^-^ - Janissary

[Janissary]

Oh, and one more question: can you forget how to lucid dream, once you have learnt it?

[Brunor2]

Hello, Welcome. 1) I've had tons of experiences with sleep paralysis, and have developed different methods to overcome it, and, in sort of way, control it. I know when I'm having sleep paralysis, and can, with a little effort, get out of it - sometimes it is happening a few times in a week.. It's very different. I would like to ask if sleep paralysis could be linked to lucid dreaming in some ways? Can you progress from sleep paralysis to lucid dreaming in a kind of way? Yes. Look at the WILD technique, you'll be half way there in sleep paralysis. 2) Just because I'm a little interested: to the ones who can control their lucid dreams: have you ever tried sleeping and dreaming during a lucid dream? If yes: are you having a lucid dream in that stage too, and how does it feel? It would be a dream within a dream, I belive you would just jump from a dream scene to another, it'll feel as any other lucid dream 3) Can someone help me getting better at this? Sure, that's why we are here. Look at the tutorials section, if you need something, just drop me a PM. Oh, and one more question: can you forget how to lucid dream, once you have learnt it? It's like learning how to ride a bicycle, you learn once, and hardly forget; you can, for sure, have periods where you'll lucid dream more, and others less - like me, this last month I had only a few lucids, and since last week I'm not remembering any dreams.

[Janissary]

Yes. Look at the WILD technique, you'll be half way there in sleep paralysis. Once, I had a really violent sleep paralysis, feeling that I was being suffocated by some kind of monster - I'm able to overcome it now, when I know that it's just a sleep paralysis, but is it possible to proceed into a lucid dream when that sort of things happen? Sure, that's why we are here. Look at the tutorials section, if you need something, just drop me a PM. Thanks a lot What's the deal about "adopting"? How much did you practice, before you had your first lucid dream?

[Brunor2]

Check: http://www.dreamviews.com/f79/why-you-fail-wilds-96892/ And this one if you have an iPhone/iPod Touch or someway to set an auto-snooze alarm: http://www.dreamviews.com/f79/**craz...rial-**-87710/ Here for the WILD section: Wake Initiated Lucid Dreams (WILD) And this tutorial: WILD Tutorial - Dreamviews Lucid Dreaming Community & Resource Sleep paralysis, usually, bring hallucinations like the one you experienced. It's normal, nothing to have fear of, and you can use it for lucid dreaming. You proceed to a LD using visualizations or other techniques. I belive they are closing, or already did, the adoption program. It's like you keeping in touch with someone more experienced than you, so this person can help and track your progress. I heard about lucid dreaming on the half of 2009 I belive. I took almost a year to have my first ''true'' one (I heard about it, tough I didn't had any good source of information, only a crapy book in Portuguese about it, wasn't of any help, until I found DV, in beggin/first half of this year, from there it took me like 1 month or less).

[Janissary]

I've been reading the links you have posted - thanks a lot. It sounds like a process, that will need time and experience. How important are dream journals? Do you still write down your dreams, even though you feel that you know how to have a lucid dream? I've read things like not to move when I get up at night (the link with the alarm-trick), but typical for those times with REM-sleep is, that you can remember your dreams way better at that moment. So what is the correct thing to do: try to initiate a WILD, or write down the things you remember from your REM-sleep? Nice pictures btw - I'm a photographer myself ^-^

[Brunor2]

Yes, I still write in my dream journal, and, in my opnion, it's a vital part of lucid dreaming. This last week I recalled almost zero dreams, and didn't had any lucids. Even experienced lucid dreamers stil write on their dream journal, you can see it here, on the site. It's you to decide: If you had a non-exciting, lame dream, I would suggest you to try to WILD (if you are not going to move, try the CAN-WILD or FILD). How frequent is your sleep paralysis experiences ? If you wake up in the middle of one, just go with it and WILD. If you had a lucid, then write it down, and then try to WILD if you have spare time. The REM sleep occurs in stages, those stages usually have 90 minutes (when you go to sleep, it's usually only 15 to 25 minutes of REM, the others are deep sleep, relaxation, etc), then the REM stage gan go up to 1 hour of complete dreaming in the later morning. Dreaming occurs in the REM stage (but you can dream in non REM stages, too, but they are not vivid as real dreams, usually in third person, just some images). Thank you. Really ? Do you have a Flickr account or something ?

[Janissary]

I'm pretty good at keeping up my dream journal because I've got pen and paper just next to my bed - problem is, that my handwriting is so bad (especially in the middle of the night) that I'm having a hard time reading it afterwards ^-^ The frequency of my sleep paralysis experiences are varying a lot. Sometimes I'm having multiple episodes a week, other times a few per month. The typical pattern is, that I wake up during the night, and realize that I am having a sleep paralysis episode. Lots of them are "superficial" without involving hypnagogic imagery, and often just consist of the inability to move - I only had the episode where I felt suffocated once, and since I've been reading about sleep paralysis, it doesn't scare me anymore. I've learnt a way to control the sleep paralysis. If first I am having it, I can make it disappear (which is not what we want here), and reappear again. If you would like to try, my trick to make it disappear is to start moving your finger (which can be moved) - then you start moving your hand, your arm, your shoulder and "plant" this wave of movement all the way up your head - eventuall, that will "rip" you out of the sleep paralysis. If you want to, you can reenter the sleep paralysis at that stage, by not moving. A problem that I am having is, that I often feel a hard time breathing during the sleep paralysis (because I am lying in a strange position), and if I can't manage to get out of the sleep paralysis (because I am too tired - the method I was talking about requires a deal of effort), I simply choose to fade into a deeper sleep. As I said, I have read the links you gave me, but couldn't really find a precise way to initiate a WILD: is it to focus on relaxing the body while still trying to be conscious and repeating that you are dreaming while counting, for instance? I am setting my alarm to trigger 6 hours inside the sleep, which should be the period where the REM-sleep lasts longest (I've been studying some neuroscience few years ago). Yes - only problem is, that I haven't been updating it the last few months ^-^ (I tried to post the link, but the page just freaked out and erased my post while saying, that I can't post links before I've been here for at least 7 days :S) - I'm sending my Flirckr with a pm, if that is possible

[Brunor2]

Just received your PM, replied. I never had SP (sleep paralysis), well, I did attain it some times trying to WILD (trying, never succeeded), but not to the point of being paralysed, just to the point of seeing some patterns and a loud noise. About your SP, you said that, to get away from it, you start moving your finger, did you look up at the FILD technique I metioned before ? I had so many success with this technique, when you wake up in the night, remain still and move your index and middle finger (of any of your hands) alternatively, very slightly, and fall asleep, in less than 30 seconds you'll probably be in a lucid dream. Other way, is to WILD as soon you see you are in SP, usually, WILD requires you to wake up and take a little break (WBTB - Wake back to bed), then you WILD. The steps of WILD, I would say (by what I have read, because I'm lame at WILD) is: 1- You relax your body, lay in a confortable position - usually on your back, and remain perfectly still, and wais for SP to kick in 2- When you start to feel numb and/or start seeing/hearing HI, start to imagine tactile sensations, like rubbing your hands, picking up something or imagine a dreamscene 2b- Alternatively, you can count your breath during the process I think the best for you would be WILD/FILD technique, as you can attain sleep paralysis naturaly, but if you want, try to look up at DILD (I suggest Puffin's DILD Guide), to increase your chances.

[Janissary]

I did indeed read about the FILD technique, but it seems strange because moving the fingers is my way of getting out of the sleep paralysis? Actually, I had a strange episode this night: I could feel, that I was just about to fall asleep, and started hearing a noise (the noise that you might hear when yawning - a kind of noise inside your head) - when I hear that noise, I know that I am about to fall asleep - sometimes I can even provoke getting to that stage (just when you are about to fall asleep). I kept on focusing without getting too hyped, and tried to fade to the next stage, and then, all of a sudden, I felt strange: the noise simply overwhelmed me, and I felt like being dragged into my bed. My head sort of got heavier - at the same moment, the tinnitus started. I got very excited, and told myself not to quit and tried to continue, but I must have got too hyped, because suddenly it all stopped. This episode happened when I went to bed, and not when I woke up in the middle of the night. Would you call that a sort of progress?

[Brunor2]

It's just normal sleep paralysis, this noise and feeling of being dragged into your bed are hallucinations that, usually, comes with the SP. Normal to happen. You should have started a visualization technique and focusing on your consciousness, you would probably slip into a lucid dream if you remained calm. Every try is a progress, you get SP easy, so reading all you can about WILD could be your best bet.

[Janissary]

It didn't feel like sleep paralysis - I'm usually pretty sure when I'm experiencing SP (I can't move, even if I want to). I will try to keep my focus the next time. A funny thing that I'm noticing while reading my DJ: I'm having around 3-4 different dreams per night, and they are usually pretty short. I've been reading some of the DJ's here, and some of the dreams are very very long. Is it unusual to have short dreams, and can you prolong your dreams with methods?

[Brunor2]

It was definitely Sleep paralysis, but you felt only the hallucinations. It was probably it's onset. Take a look here at DV and you'll see that what you felt is well known. It's normal to have short dreams, they are usually long, but you only recall a pice or pieces of it. People usually post only their longest dreams here at the site. My dreams, I usually recall some parts of it, there are dreams where I recall with great details and length, but they are few and don't happen regularly, It's usually lucid dreams that I recall better. You can only work on your recall to remember them better.

[Janissary]

I had the before mentioned experience again this night (SP) - I kept focusing, even though the hallucinations were pretty extensive - I was kind of whirled up in the air while twisting around, and saw something fairy-like and lots of colors. I had only been sleeping for 15 minutes before it started, and it disappeared after some time - don't know what went wrong, but I guess I got too excited again.. I didn't dream anything afterwards though.. My question is: how far away from lucid dreaming are you, when the hallucinates appear? How am I doing regarding progress? Is it natural to get those hallucinations in only 3 days?

[Brunor2]

I have never had a WILD, you should check the WILD links that I put in my post before. You are very close to entering the dream when the hallucinations appears, you just need to find you way to transition to the dream. It's natural for you because you attain SP easly. You are one step away from a LD, you just need to transition. Sorry for any mistakes, I'm posting from my iPod.

[Janissary]

I guess I messed it up during the transition - the WILD thread describes the flying-like feeling and the patterns and colors as the transition phase. I have a question: how do you intentionally wake up while having a lucid dream? Is it just something you think of? Can you have a hard time waking up from a lucid dream?

[Brunor2]

For each person the hallucinations can be different: you can see patterns, the feeling of sinking or flying, see monsters or a bad presence in the room, etc. Belive me, the first thing you'll probably do when you have your first LD is wake up. People tend to think of their body on their bed, some can even feel their real body, and soon wake up. I have heard of people who got caught in a chain of false awakenings, but, usually, you can wake up from a lucid dreaming just by wanting it, trying to move your real body, etc, if you close and open your eyes you can either wake up or teleport/get a false awakening.

[Janissary]

Those false awakenings sounds pretty disturbing - but on the other hand, you can just perform a reality check if you aren't sure. If you keep waking up during the first LDs, how are you going to have a LD then? Are you waking up because of the excitement? By the way: how many LDs have you had yourself?

[Brunor2]

I have 35 on count. Before last month or so, I used to have one each week, sometimes two, the last two weeks I have been in a dry spell, barely recalling any dreams, I'm 11 days without a LD now. Most of my LDs were short lived and not so vivid (the most vivid ones were the FILDs ou CAN-WILDs), I'm still waiting for that long lucid dream. To don't wake up, you stabilize the dream: Pay attention at your surroundings, and quickly touch tometinh (rub your hands, touch the ground or walls, etc), pay attention to sounds, everything. You can spin your dream body too (not too quickly, just so you can see everything arround you) - this don't work for me tho.

[Janissary]

I guess stress and sleep pattern is very important.. If I don't get enough sleep, I never dream - the last few hours with REM sleep is very critical, I guess. When do you have your LDs? In the beginning of your sleep, just spontaneously in the middle, or after your set alarm goes off and you wake up and sleep again? The before-mentioned episodes of mine only appears just when I go to bed - I haven't experienced anything in the middle of my sleep yet. I've been reading about the spinning and hand-rubbing, and will try to keep it in my mind - right now, the issue is to pass the transition-stage: I haven't tried counting yet, and if I can keep focusing, I will try it tonight and see if it works. The main problem is just the excitement - I'm getting all hyped when being in the transition-stage, which usually ends in failure..

[Brunor2]

Excitement will for sure lead you to failure. I have noticed that my LDs were at like 4-6AM or 8-11AM (on weekends and days like those) or at naps (I got 2 lucids and 1 semilucid with the CAN-WILD the time I succeeded). That's it, just don't get excited and experiment with the best visualization/focusing techniques. I know lots of them, never had a WILD tho, if you need, I'll tell you others if you fail the ones you are trying.

[Janissary]

Thanks a lot, mate - I'll give it a try this night, and explain things tomorrow