How Can I Tell Where I Am In My REM Cycle?

**Finny** · 04-05-2018 05:22 AM

I’ve been LDing intermittently for 2.5 years. I have a question about REM cycles...

If you wake up during the night, how do you know whether you’ve just finished a REM period or if you’ve woken up in the middle of one?

I usually try and use my dreams as a gauge (so if I have trouble remembering my dream then I’m between REM periods, or if it’s still really vivid then I’m probably still in the middle of REM). Am I right, or are there other ways to tell?

I’ve tried using apps on my phone, but my phone picks up my partners movement therefore making the readings inaccurate! It’s quite frustrating!

So how do you tell what part of your sleep/REM cycle you’ve woken up in?

**BlueSunrise444** · 04-06-2018 07:47 PM

Welcome!

The only ways to know for sure are with some expensive measuring equipment or have someone watch you while you sleep to see if your eyes are moving.

Also from my understanding, if you naturally wake up during the night, it is very likely that you were just in REM sleep as REM is closest to waking state. If you were interrupted and feel grumpy, it was probably deep delta sleep.

**Finny** · 04-07-2018 08:26 AM

Thank you!
That’s very helpful.
I definitely get grumpy if I get woken up. I’ll take note of how I feel next time I wake up.

**TravisE** · 04-08-2018 03:44 AM

Is there a particular reason you're trying to determine this? All of the general LD techniques I've heard of don't really require you to know things like that precisely, and as far as I know, there really isn't a reliable way without sophisticated monitoring and measuring. If you're attempting DEILD, for instance, I think it's best just to go for it—you have nothing to lose. For WBTB, working out the timing often requires some experimenting and trial and error anyway. And so on.

**Finny** · 04-09-2018 02:56 AM

The only reason I want to know is to give myself the best chance of becoming lucid.
All the books I’ve read all say to look at your REM cycles to time your WBTB so it’s during REM and not deep sleep.
Seeing as my sleep cycles are pretty erratic (I don’t go to sleep the same time every night) I was hoping there was another way to tell if I’m close to REM.

I pretty much stick to DILD, as I’ve never managed to DEILD at all. I can’t just wake and go straight back to sleep (unless I’m in deep sleep early in the night, when I’m unlikely to LD). WILD doesn’t seem to work for me either... I have managed to get MILD to work once, and only once. So I just try and give myself the best chance to DILD (usually on a weekend when I can sleep in.)

**TravisE** · 04-09-2018 03:48 AM

Yeah, the thing with sleep cycles is that they follow a general pattern, but they won't be exactly the same every time. However, you have the best chance to be in REM at least four or five hours or later into sleep. For most people, REM cycles become longer and closer together the longer sleep lasts, so it's usually recommended to start somewhere around that point for WBTB and then sort of experiment to find the optimal point. In most cases, whenever you awaken naturally (without an alarm or some external thing waking you up) late in sleep, you're pretty close to REM, so this is usually a pretty good time, I think. Also, how long one should stay up during WBTB seems to vary for people, too. If you find you can't get back to sleep after WBTB, you might try either doing WBTB a little earlier or shorten the time you're awake. Likewise, if you fall asleep too quickly afterwards, try lengthening the wake period.

I seem to have trouble with DEILD, too. I frequently wake up naturally immediately after REM cycles, but I can't seem to fall asleep quickly enough most of the time. I have more luck if I can catch the dream just as it seems to be fading, before I'm actually awake, and try to hold onto it and stay in it a bit longer. Some people pick up and have an easy time with DEILD and WILD and say it's as easy as pie, but not everybody enjoys that experience. So keep experimenting until you find what works for you.

**Finny** · 04-09-2018 03:58 AM

I’m thinking I’ve probably worked out when I’m most likely to get lucid, unfortunately it’s between 6-7:30 am. The problem with this is that I wake up at 5:45am during the week!

I am a pretty light sleeper, and wake up at least once a night after a REM cycle (I’m assuming that’s when it is) and again if my hubby stirs. I used to get so worked up about the fact I couldn’t sleep a whole night through without waking up! But now I just don’t worry about it and use it as a chance to do WBTB or relaxation/meditation