Dreaming of Lucid Dreams?

[windcriesmary99]

Last night i had my first lucid dream, although i could not control anything. is it possible to have dreamt that you had a lucid dream, but not actually have one? if there is how can anyone be sure that they have a had a lucid dream.

[adamL28]

on the rare occasion that i do have a dream, my thinking about lucid dreaming before i sleep usually means there is some reference to Lucid dreams in my dream itself. This usually happens when i hear people talking about it in my dream, etc. I then wake up kicking myself for losing such a good opportunity EDIT: sorry didnt read your question properly....i think realising you're in a dream makes it lucid, but a little dream control would be needed. Is that what they call semi-lucid?

[Oneironaut Zero]

Realizing you're dreaming is a lucid dream. Realizing you're dreaming and controlling the dream is lucid dreaming while controlling the dream. [Edit:] Oh, and welcome to DV.

[Nunquam]

Last night, I tried to have a lucid dream for the first time. I wasn't successful, however, I did have very vivid non-lucid dreams - and within one of these dreams, I dreamt about having a lucid dream and then waking up from that dream and describing to people the contents of my lucid dream - all the while oblivious to the fact that I was dreaming (if that even made sense). So, yes, I dreamed a non-lucid dream about having a lucid dream.

[Oneironaut Zero]

Originally posted by Nunquam So, yes, I dreamed a non-lucid dream about having a lucid dream. This is actually a paradox. If you went to sleep, inside of a non-lucid dream, and switched to a 'dream sequence within a dream sequence,' and you're lucid in this "second dream sequence" that is a lucid dream, not dreaming a non-lucid dream of a lucid dream. You frame of reference is your own conscious perspective. If you know what is going on around you is a dream, whether you went to sleep in the dream before it or not, you're lucid dreaming. Even if you "wake up" into the dream you had before and you're not lucid anymore, that means you're no longer lucid, not that you "woke up from a lucid dream into a non-lucid dream," because you haven't really woken up. You just lost lucidity by creating the illusion of waking up.

[TygrHawk]

Originally posted by Oneironaut If you went to sleep, inside of a non-lucid dream, and switched to a 'dream sequence within a dream sequence,' and you're lucid in this "second dream sequence" that is a lucid dream, not dreaming a non-lucid dream of a lucid dream. My brain hurts.

[Nunquam]

Originally posted by Oneironaut This is actually a paradox. If you went to sleep, inside of a non-lucid dream, and switched to a 'dream sequence within a dream sequence,' and you're lucid in this "second dream sequence" that is a lucid dream, not dreaming a non-lucid dream of a lucid dream. You frame of reference is your own conscious perspective. If you know what is going on around you is a dream, whether you went to sleep in the dream before it or not, you're lucid dreaming. Even if you "wake up" into the dream you had before and you're not lucid anymore, that means you're no longer lucid, not that you "woke up from a lucid dream into a non-lucid dream," because you haven't really woken up. You just lost lucidity by creating the illusion of waking up. The thing was though, I was never lucid. I was simply DREAMING of being lucid. I wasn't aware that it was a dream until I woke up.

[Oneironaut Zero]

Then I'd suppose you have to clarify what you mean "dreaming of being lucid." Being lucid means knowing you're dreaming. So...if you were "dreaming that you knew you were dreaming," how do you differentiate that from knowing you're dreaming? What is it that you experienced that made you think you were "dreaming about knowing you were dreaming," but not really "knowing you're dreaming," as opposed to really just "knowing you're dreaming?" Is there a difference? This is where I think a lot of people confuse themselves. If you equate being lucid with having special dream powers, or having control over your own actions in a dream, THEN it is possible to dream about having control, without actually being lucid. "Dreaming of a Controlled, Non-lucid Dream." But, if you are "dreaming that you know that everything is a dream," you are lucid dreaming. Even if you don't Realize that you knew you were dreaming until After you woke up, that is Recalling a Lucid Dream, not dreaming of one. So I suppose by saying "dreaming of a lucid dream" you have to define what you mean by "lucid dream." If you define it as knowing you're dreaming, (the correct meaning,) then it is not possible to 'dream that you know you're dreaming, without knowing you're dreaming,' even if you don't remember that lucid dream until after you wake up. Get my point?

[Nunquam]

I think I understand what you're saying, but...I didn't KNOW I was dreaming even while it was occurring. Therefore, under your definition of lucid dreaming, I WASN'T lucid dreaming. It's kinda like this: You're having a non-lucid dream (one you don't know is a dream and one you can't control) and it seems like a normal dream. However, in the dream, you suddenly "transport" to your bed and believe you've just woken up - you still think everything is real and thus are not aware that you're dreaming. Now that you're "awake" in your dream, you going around and explaining to everyone you meet how you've just had a lucid dream - you're DREAMING of telling people of a lucid dream, without one actually occurring. I know it doesn't seem to make sense, but that's probably just because I'm not explaining it the right way. However, I KNOW for a fact that I never, at any point during the dream, was aware of the fact that I was dreaming. So, it couldn't possibly have been lucid, can it?

[Oneironaut Zero]

Originally posted by Nunquam You're having a non-lucid dream (one you don't know is a dream and one you can't control) and it seems like a normal dream. However, in the dream, you suddenly "transport" to your bed and believe you've just woken up - you still think everything is real and thus are not aware that you're dreaming. Now that you're "awake" in your dream, you going around and explaining to everyone you meet how you've just had a lucid dream - you're DREAMING of telling people of a lucid dream, without one actually occurring. That is a false awakening, which is very common. However, the part that you're confusing yourself on is that you "woke up" and decided to tell everyone that you had a lucid dream. Why? Did you do this involuntarily because your dream Forced you to tell people you had a lucid dream, or did you just have a little control and thought you'd just waken up from a lucid dream, and made the Decision to tell people it was a lucid dream that you'd woken up from? If it was the first, then you were just having a non-lucid dream, in which your dream self "woke up" into a false awakening (from a dream that you admit to knowing wasn't lucid) and just told people in your FA dream that you had a lucid dream, for no reason Or You thought you'd really woken up, (during the false awakening) and decided to go around telling people that you had a lucid dream, for no reason. The point of confusion is why, in the false awakening, you were telling people you'd just had a lucid dream, when you didn't, because the dream before the false awakening wasn't lucid anyway. I get where you are a little confused, but that scenario wouldn't be "dreaming of a lucid dream," it is more "dreaming of Telling people you had a lucid dream, when in fact, you didn't."

[Nunquam]

I don't know why I was telling people I just had a lucid dream - I guess it was because I was trying to have one and somehow this thought was incorporated into my dream; very strange, I know. I never thought it was a false awakening because I thought those only took place during lucid dreams; however, Wikipedia says "... false awakenings are not the same as lucid dreams because the dreamers do not always know they are still dreaming." So, this means that this is, in fact, a false awakening during which I told people that, during my previous dream, I was having a lucid dream, when I really wasn't. Once again, this is very strange, and I was extremely confused when I woke up for real. Sorry if I confused you - I even confuse myself.

[Oneironaut Zero]

Don't worry. It happens a lot. It's a confusing concept. Glad I was able to help.

[DuB]

Originally posted by Oneironaut This is actually a paradox. Psst... a paradox is something that actually does make sense, although it appears to contradict itself... Sorry, I think I was an English teacher in a past life Carry on

[Oneironaut Zero]

Ah. You're right. A paradox Would have some truth to it. "Dreaming of lucid dreaming" is just a misconception.

[TygrHawk]

Originally posted by Oneironaut A paradox Would have some truth to it. "Dreaming of lucid dreaming" is just a misconception. I'm glad somebody finally came right out and said that. It's what I've always believed to be the case, but I was always afraid that somehow I was missing the point or something.