Introduction and ... a common problem with a new twist.

**macfiddler** · 05-13-2006 09:09 PM

Hello all,

I've been interested in Lucid Dreaming for over a year now, ever since I noticed references to it on websites selling light/sound devices, and discovered that it wasn't just what its name suggested, i.e. clear, vivid dreaming, but actually 'conscious dreaming'. I for one vote for a rename; I nearly missed out on it altogether because its semi-misnomer failed to make an impression on me. I think of it as 'Conscious Dreaming', or sometimes 'Aware Dreaming', although the latter doesn't have quite such a ring to it. Shakespeare (or Bacon) didn't have the Internet at his fingertips when he wrote "A rose by any other name ...".

So, here I am, trying not to be defined by my 'occupation': Invalid. Unfortunately, apart from not being even remotely a natural at Lucid Dreaming (and despite having a husband, best friend and son who are all naturals but none of whom are interested in experimenting with it (!?!)), some of my most persistent and substantial obstacles are caused by symptoms. I have an incapacitating illness which contraindicates or invalidates some of the lucid dreaming techniques I've read about which sound as if they could be very effective if only I could use them; unfortunately, symptom control must take precedence. My aim is to find a way which gets around these obstacles; not much success so far.

A simple model of my illness is essential to an understanding of my problems, so I will try to keep it short. I have an auto-immune neurological condition (anti-nerve antibodies) of 20 yrs standing. It's too rare to have a name, but it is similar to Multiple Sclerosis except that in my case the Anti-nerve Antibodies directly attack my brain and other nerve cells and cause inflamation, which causes hypersensitivity (and a lot of other things). I'm also a lifelong insomniac and nightowl (what other kind of owl is there?).

In the year during which I've been trying, by means of reading everything I can get my hands on within my price range (three books, lots of websites and various topics on a number of forums as well as this one so far), reality checks, dream diary (Sony MiniDisc dictation; my co-ordination is not good enough to allow me to control a writing implement for a few hours after waking), meditation on intentions whilst dropping off, a Stephen LaBerge induction CD and sundry mp3s, trying to 'bring the feel of a dream state' into everyday reality, etc., in bursts of dedication followed by periods of inactivity and frustration due to lack of success, I've noticed a few things:

I'm a deep sleeper (though whether this has anything to do with it, I don't know), and only have managed so far to experience vague (very 'un-lucid'!) 'in dream awareness' either during drifting off in the 'evening' (could be any actual time, but it's after I've had an approx. 18 hr 'day' of awakeness), or on waking in the 'morning' (after my 'eight hours'). I never have moments of lucidity during proper dreams at 'night' (when I'm asleep). (I should mention that my illness prevents me from keeping regular hours.) Do deep sleepers tend to have problems like this, or is there no relationship?

Like many beginners (I've only become lucid seven or eight times, and then only vaguely, with budding awareness and no control - no time to control), I've tended to wake up suddenly from the thrill of becoming lucid finally. Unfortunately, drifting off to sleep again can be, and almost always is, problematic; either I get a bout of insomnia, or if it's 'morning', my nervous system (having become relaxed during sleep) often goes into a sort of spasm, where my bladder, and sometimes my bowels, spasm agonisingly and persistently until I must get up to go to the toilet, I feel a painful 'electrification' over all my nerve endings, often a strong fear, and general neural chaos, which can continue for up to half an hour. No amount of 'relaxation' will calm it down, and I need to sit up and take my anti-seizure medication (the symptoms are similar to a seizure in their mechanism) and then wait half an hour for it to start to take effect. No amount of spinning and/or focussing will bring back a dream state. Obviously, techniques like setting alarm clocks for particular periods of REM sleep (the noise of which would send me through the roof, apart from the likelihood of my insomniac tendencies making timing impossible), and any techniques for dream recall which involve being woken up ( which invariably sends my nervous system into panic stations) are out of the question.

As I've had no luck at all with MILD techniques, and what experiences I've had drifting off seem closest to WILDs, I am trying to refine these techniques to suit myself whilst waiting for any MILD success. As they hardly ever happen (five or six this year), any suggestions would be appreciated.

Also, I must convey the importance of Lucid Dreaming to me. The injunction on the home page of this site not to try to live in dreams as an escape from 'the real world' is one which, as someone who spends most of her days alone and bedridden with an extremely circumscribed life which includes frequent 3-5 day migraines and protracted seizure-like activity which requires days of lying still (not even able to hold a book), I choose to ignore; I have very little 'real life', have had very little for over twenty years, and what I have is crushing me psychologically because the physical and emotional suffering which I find difficulty in controlling or enduring is exhausting my resources. Much of the time, my dreams are the closest thing I have to a respite.

If I could really 'live' within dreams, then I might at least go mad more slowly, because I could have access to some freedom and maybe pleasure with which to counterbalance the heavy load which I so often carry during my waking hours. In addition, I hope to do as much emotional healing as I can once I manage to actually DO some proper Lucid Dreaming. This is one of my main motivations.

I ran these problems past the people at LD4All about a year ago, but they were outside the ken of everyone there, although I received much encouragement. Maybe someone here might have some useful insights into my situation.

Nice to meet you all, anyway!

pj · 05-13-2006 09:19 PM

Greetings, and welcome to DreamViews!

I'm not even going to try to address your fascinating set of special circumstances... but want to get a "ping" in here and watch the folks who know what they're talking about do their thing.

Regarding

(what other kind of owl is there?). [/b]

, there is the Snowy Owl, which is not nocturnal! (I just learned that a couple weeks ago, as a nearby farm has a snowy owl hanging out near it... very unusual for these parts.)

Anyway, good luck... I'm looking forward to seeing what kinds of responses you get.[/url]

**Asclepius** · 05-13-2006 09:37 PM

Hi MacFiddler, welcome to DV

MILD usually requires ability to recall at least one dream a night, and is often combined with WBTB. So WILD sounds better approach for you.

You might also be interested in HILD and VILD. How are your visualization skills?

7 or 8 lucids is a great start.

Overcoming initial excitement and stabilizing is challenge to most. Best advice I have read is to focus on environment when you become lucid. Look around slowly and touch things. If dream is fading - you can rub your dream hands, or some people visualize falling backwards, or spinning. Its good idea to mentally rehearse these ideas while awake so that you will be more likely to use them in an LD.

**macfiddler** · 05-21-2006 08:04 PM

Originally posted by Asclepius
Hi MacFiddler, welcome to DV

MILD usually requires ability to recall at least one dream a night, and is often combined with WBTB. So WILD sounds better approach for you.

You might also be interested in HILD and VILD. How are your visualization skills?

7 or 8 lucids is a great start.

Overcoming initial excitement and stabilizing is challenge to most. Best advice I have read is to focus on environment when you become lucid. Look around slowly and touch things.

If dream is fading - you can rub your dream hands, or some people visualize falling backwards, or spinning.

Its good idea to mentally rehearse these ideas while awake so that you will be more likely to use them in an LD.

Sorry about the late reply: everything I do and when I manage to do it is 'health permitting'. Btw, I have a distinct memory of answering this post before. Is my memory playing tricks, or is it the board? I think it must be the board; I just received two e-mails telling me that I had two more replies, which I manifestly don't have. And my previous answer (assuming I penned it) is missing.

I am good at visualising, so I'll look into HILD and VILD: never heard of either of them ... I think I'm developing AOD (Acronym Overload Disorder).

Ahem ... "7 or 8 " makes it sound as if I actually carried them off, rather than being ejected from them with force after a second or so when I'd only become barely aware.

As for your suggestions, which I have tried in the past ... the orchestra of electric shocks to the nervouse system, bladder (and possibly intestinal) spasm (both excruciating), hypersensitivity to sound ( even through earplugs) and light (even through closed eyelids), a mouthful of foul-tasting fluid (which must be spat out and replaced with a dash of toothpaste), and terror reaction which accompany anything approaching wakefulness completely obliterates everything else. And anyway, I wake up so quickly that I'm much too far out of the dream to be able to do anything within it, which is not for want of trying. But no-one could keep a dream alive through what assails me when I start to wake up. At times it goes through periods of such severity that I dread having to go to sleep, knowing what the next thing I'll experience will be.

I've tried soothing myself back into a state of drowsiness (only possible occasionally, and only after a short afternoon nap, not after a night's sleep, in which my nerves get so relaxed, and therefore sensitised, that waking up is a sort of explosion). But if I try to get back into a dream by running through my memory of it and trying to retain or bring back the feeling, I always find my nerves are so jumpy that anything jolts me out of it, even my own mental chatter, which is often about frightening or upsetting things (I had a pretty traumatic childhood, and semi-wakefulness is conducive to the inner demons, I find).

Spinning is the only thing I ever remember to do, but minutes of it still doesn't work; I'm simply not asleep anymore, more's the pity. If I could only get MILDs to happen ... then none of this would be a problem. But despite much effort, then leaving off for a while, then more effort, no luck. I've ordered one of those lucidity induction masks which detect REM sleep and flash lights at you, but it hasn't arrived yet. I dare not place too great an expectation of success on it ... but I am, and will remain, hopeful.

I've never seen my hands in dreams. And sight is the only sense I have in dreams. Do other people feel, smell, hear, taste etc.?

I did rehearse spinning, which is why I always remember to do it.

As for my question about being a deep sleeper and wondering whether being a deep sleeper made one less likely to become lucid within dreams, surely this has been explored? Has anyone any thoughts or experiences (or hard data) on the topic?

**DJ Dead Llama** · 05-22-2006 07:13 AM

During a dreamstate it depends on what has importance to me in the "Plot" of the dream, ie: i smelled hamburgers cooking, i was going to the park, i knew that previously in the dream, so my unconscious senses thought i was really smelling that.
Ive done this with alot of feelings, i can feel most every dream, i can hear in dreams most often, and i can taste things in a dream rarely.

I dont know if this helps at all, if not Good Luck!

**Asclepius** · 05-26-2006 12:40 AM

Originally posted by macfiddler

I've never seen my hands in dreams. And sight is the only sense I have in dreams. Do other people feel, smell, hear, taste etc.?

As for my question about being a deep sleeper and wondering whether being a deep sleeper made one less likely to become lucid within dreams, surely this has been explored? Has anyone any thoughts or experiences (or hard data) on the topic?

Visuals seem to dominate dreams, but certainly many people experience dreams involving all of the senses. For me smell is the rarest, with few dreams having smell. Sound is fairly common as is touch. Taste happens fairly often for me as well as i dream about eating quite frequently

Being a deep sleeper may have some challenges. Some people have more LDs when they sleep more fitfully. But the key is really if you can recall any dreams. If not then you may become lucid, but be unable to remember it in the morning

One other suggestion is to read some books on lucid dreaming before you go to sleep. Immersing my mind in the idea of lucid dreams helped me have more dreams.

Some books - Exploring the World of Lucid Dreaming LaBerge. Creative Dreaming Garfield.

Thread: Introduction and ... a common problem with a new twist.

LinkBack

Thread Tools

Display

Introduction and ... a common problem with a new twist.

Deep sleepers and lucidity. Also,the 5 senses in dreams?

Re: Deep sleepers and lucidity. Also,the 5 senses in dreams?

Bookmarks

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions