I'm new with a question

[Gamegrl]

Hello all, I had a lucid dream "by accident" last year, but I managed to ask the dream figure a question about my waking reality. I'm wondering - how seriously should I take her answer? She answered me cryptically, but the answer still indicated the answer I wanted to hear. I have to be honest - I'm a bit spooked out by the exchange. If the figure is not a figure of my imagination (which is what I started thinking and then I started losing my "grip" in the dream), who or what is a dream figure? Because I was so surprised that I woke up while dreaming (I wasn't deliberately trying to lucid dream), I believed that she must be a "wise" entity. My main question is - has anyone ever asked a dream figure a question and saw it come to fruition in reality? Thanks for reading,

[Philosopher8659]

I would take the answer seriously, however, it is not cryptic, principles of langauge are being used. The root question, is the anwer important enough to get some understanding so that you can hear the answer. The ball was tossed back in your court. However, I suspect that you acquired that response because there may be hope in you, eventually. And yes, the questions I have asked started from the beginning, and though it took me time, sometimes a great deal of time and effort, I finally understood. If you desire to get started on principles of language, I suggest Plato. I have posted free ebook and audiobooks of various translations on the internet archive. search johnclark8659. Plato is a great deal deeper than any commentary you will read on him. And, the commentaries more often miss the mark by a few parsects. However, the dialogs were written for one purpose, to help you use your mind. It may interest you to know, by what is said in passing in the dialogs, Socrates was a lucid dreamer. The answer, how it was said, is a clue. But make no mistake, Whatever they are, they will not think or do the work of understanding for you. This is a different kind of school than you are use to.

[Gamegrl]

Thank you.... "Principles of language are being used" - this is so interesting. Can you explain (and if the explanation is too lengthy, do you mind suggesting authors, websites or reading materials I can refer to? Again, I never knew there was such a thing as lucid dreaming until I had this dream, so I'm truly a newbie. I feel like I have a new toy and a new passion I've become fascinated with dreaming. I don't quite remember what she said specifically, she did allude that "it's all like water." I asked her if I would be re-accepted to college and her answer was yes, "it's all like water." This is a cryptic answer to me. Based on what you know about language, what do you think this could mean? I have my ideas, but I'd rather hear from someone more learned. And if you can expound on what you said about "principles of language" I'd really appreciate it. I am hoping to be re-accepted to college (this was the answer I wanted to hear). The circumstances surrounding my withdrawal makes it a vague possibility - this is why I wonder whether I can act on this experience and get these results "in real life". Is it possible that I could have been remote viewing in this dream - because it did really seem like I was "there" (I usually don't have the sense of control that I had while dreaming.) I've had only one other lucid dream (and again, unintentionally). ----------------------- I find it very interesting that when I started saying to myself (because I could rationally "think" while dreaming) "this is just a figment of my imagination" I could not get an answer to a second question. My second question to her was whether I would be successful. Of course, I want to be wildly successful, but I found myself "straining" to hear her, if this makes sense. She faded away/I started waking up/I lost my grip (I write it this way because it seems all of these things happened simultaneously). Any thoughts on this? Please recommend books that I can learn from. Thanks

[Philosopher8659]

The meaning is clear. Search the internet, is the foundation of language known and taught? Or, does anyone know how words can and cannot go together? If not, is there any stability in what is said and taught in our schools or is it like water, that you cannot even hold in your hand? Besides what I am working on, I gave you the best reference possible. You must have a desire for truth and understanding and be willing to work. Besides, if someday someone would be sent to "cast the truth to the ground" do you think it possible if man knew already? It is very strange stuff, but then so is waking up,.

[Gamegrl]

Gotcha - and thanks!

[Amethyst Star]

Hey Gamegrl. I guess the question really is if you believe that one can foretell the future in some way. Your response to that will determine how you respond to what your DC (Dream Character) said. I'm not really one way or the other on the subject, but I would tell you to ask yourself this: Did she give you an accurate answer or an answer you wanted to hear? Dreams are highly subjective and depend on the individuals own experiences, so the only one who can really interpret your dreams is you. Does water play a role in your life? If so, how can you apply that to what her response was. Also, keep in mind that water can signify more than one thing as well, so try to look at things from more than just one angle. So, as for whether or not you should take your dream seriously, that's up to you. There's no harm in remaining optimistic, but it's more likely that she is a part of your own mind. It doesn't make her/you wrong, but don't be 100% shocked if things don't turn out exactly as you plan. On a non-dream related note, I hope that you get accepted to the college for which you're applying. I loved my experience (though I did the standard straight 4 years right after high school) and I hope that it works out for you as well.

[Philosopher8659]

PS, I dont think you would have been pointed in the right direction, if your question was not honest. That is interesting. The question is, do you see the answer?

[Gamegrl]

Well - I did want to hear "yes", but I believe I was somewhat "objective" when asking her. I don't really have a relationship with water. Upon awakening, I believed she meant that my acceptance works as water does. I understood this as a tide was coming in - and by the force of the tide I will be granted my desire. (exact quotation from my dream journal) Although Philosopher says this is "clear", it's still cryptic to me

[Philosopher8659]

Let us break the metaphor down to its simplest components. The earth is comprised of land masses and water masses. Which do you build your house on?

[Gamegrl]

land of course....

[Philosopher8659]

Do you know why metaphor is used? It is used because you must learn to think by abstracting the similar idea in the many examples, you must learn to think by definition. Until you do, you mind is not awake. This is not taught in schools yet. Food for thought. If you do not understand metaphor, how could your own mind use it to say something to itself?

[Gamegrl]

I am following the metaphor, and I feel comfortable with my interpretation - i'm just weirded out a little bit that I had a lucid dream in the first place. It seems that this dream must be "special" since it's lucid. And I took the woman to be an oracle (I saw her then decided to ask her a question because WOW, I'm awake!) So I don't know quite how to "take" the experience. I've kept a dream journal for years, so I'm not exactly new to dream interpretation. I am new to lucid dreaming, though, and I was hoping to hear other people tell me how or whether their lucid dreams "came true"

[Philosopher8659]

Well, I have said all I need to say. Good luck.

[Gamegrl]

I've been comfortable with dreams being dreams - but when I consciously made decisions in this lucid dream, my entire belief system of what dreams "mean" went out the window. This is why I'm asking (what seems to me to be a naive question) - can I make this dream "true"

[Philosopher8659]

No. Food for thought. If the function of the human mind is to predict the results of human action such that that action sustains and promotes the life of the body, what does it mean when you learn things to come, but could not have possibly made it happen? Is it a good thing that we see what we cannot do, or not?

[Gamegrl]

I've gotta go - I like this discussion. I'm trying to turn you into an oracle

[Philosopher8659]

I think I am almost already there. It has been a long hard trip. Mainly, because it is the one thing I never wanted to be. I have my own agenda. Now it is the end of my work day. The reason I said No above, is because you cannot make happen what is. The answer was not about the future, nor were you being told what to do--I have never seen that, even in life and death situations. That would be a violation of conduct. A real prophetic dream will be given in metaphor, but you will not have the experience to know the meaning until after it happens. This will erase all daubt that you could not have made anything happen, but it does give you the definition of the source of information. This is in regard to prophecy about your own life. About others, you may understand, but should have to good sense not to say anything. The reason for this, is because you are being trained to develop your own will, not become dependent on living the will of another, for this is against life itself. This is why, when it has been noted that those who could see, could never see for themselves. They missed the whole question.

[Gamegrl]

I guess I was romanticizing the lucid dream experience. The dream was odd because although I was "asleep" I had a measure of consciousness - willfulness, that is - that I have in waking life. I really just didn't know how to "take" the experience other than to see the dream as prophetic. I wasn't thinking about college when I had the dream. In fact, I was in distress because I was recovering from brain surgery. I think the surgery is the reason behind why I became lucid. I hope I didn't sound like a total neanderthal when I was writing earlier.

[Amethyst Star]

I hope I didn't sound like a total neanderthal when I was writing earlier. Not at all It's really up to you to choose what you're going to believe. I do believe that some people have had prophetic dreams for one reason or another. I feel that some people exaggerate when they say their dreams tell the future, but not all people. Normally I would ask someone if this particular dream seemed out of place, unexpected, and personally significant, but I think the answer to that in this case is obvious. I'd say that regardless whether or not it is "prophetic," perhaps your mind is trying to draw your attention to something. I've found dreams to be revealing things we aren't aware of in our daily lives, so it's not strange to me that you're trying to figure out where it's coming from. Also, I'd suggest that you focus not just on her words, but on everything that happened during the dream. What did the girl you talked to look like? Did she remind you of someone or of some even or place? Where were you when you were talking with her? Don't get caught up on one detail and forget the whole picture. That might help.

[Philosopher8659]

Yes, do not feel bad. Part of the reason for using metaphor is to learn to master desire. In my case, I dont think I ever did. For me, prophetic dreams are the most open to misinterpretaton when they invovle the self and one has a great desire. This is because metaphor, working with class objects all have the same class definition. One choosed the object they desire, and not the topic object. I was actually taken by surprise with prophecy--It just happened, during a phase of my training, I could see things that were to come just by closing my eyes. They were still in metaphor, but I would ask about others. At that time I still thought I was exploring my own subconscious. However, I still took the experience as a question, By whose vision do we live? My answer was final, by my own and I stopped the practice. I knew I could not possibly see what was to happen, so they had to have some other kind of origin. Sure, they happened, but not by my will--therefore, of what concertn were they to me? However, asking about things, other people, does provide exercise in metaphor. I once had a temper tantrum about that in state, as I want plain english. I got my wish, however what was said, "how do you feel about your progress" crushed me. I woke up crying. I did not do that again. However, because of my desire, a very stong one, for a companion, I was never able to rid myself of hope. Well, so much for that. What I do have is plenty of work. My entire training in lucid dreaming, and all, has been about human will and what it has to do with the mind. Most people would find it quite boring. Still, it would have helped to have someone to argue with, it helps me think. There is a lot of stress in learning, often more than one wants, however, happy are they who have work to do. Example of prophecy: I once lived, while going to college, in a trailer park, with my then wife and next door another couple. One day she turned up positive on a preg test and by way of passing asked me what it would be. She had not even gone to the doctors yet. I closed my eyes, and seen two. A boy in the light and a girl in the dark. I decided to say that I saw nothing. This was obviously a dangerous situation. As time went on, she found she was to have twins. To make a long story short, The day of delivery, when her husband passed my in his truck, as he was pulling in from spending a long time at the hospital, I asked him what she had, He was sad, he said a son. An example of a prophetic dream, when I thought I was still working with my own mind, I asked if lucid dreaming itself had any real value. I found myself near Washington D.C. the white house in the background, and there was a sign. "Express C.M." Now for three days I was amazed, what in the hell did I know about the Common Market? NOTHING! So, I grabbed a dictionary at work, in there you find abreviations stand for many things. i.e. initials are a class pattern. Interestingly, one of them was Congregation of the Mission. One can say a lot with a metaphor.

[Gamegrl]

Philosopher - you lost me, but I want to understand. I don't see how the situation was dangerous. According to the above, it sounds like you did correctly see twins - but something happened such that your neighbor only had one child. Am I correct? Are you suggesting that the situation is dangerous because you did not want to put yourself in the position of being or sounding like an authority, when things could happen to prohibit the final outcome. If this is true, it seems that your dream was absolutely prophetic. ---------------------- I think I know why I had the lucid dream. I was recovering from brain surgery to correct epilepsy. I left college 10+ years ago (and I haven't been able to finish) because of a seizure disorder. Perhaps I realized at a very deep level that I could finish school now - and this realization manifested itself in this lucid dream. I am just incredibly surprised, because I had long ago accepted my disability. I was shocked to have a dream that was not only lucid, but it seemed (to the uneducated me) to have some components of astral travel. Leaving school was a great disappointment to me. This was a desire that I buried deep down, because seizures so took over my life. I think this is why I choose to believe that the dream is prophetic rather than metaphoric of something else. ------------------

[Gamegrl]

Not at all Also, I'd suggest that you focus not just on her words, but on everything that happened during the dream. What did the girl you talked to look like? Did she remind you of someone or of some even or place? Where were you when you were talking with her? Don't get caught up on one detail and forget the whole picture. That might help. Please tell me what these details might reveal. The woman was a typical preppy type. I used to hang out with actors and other literary types at school - that's who she reminds me of. I have a question about lucid dreaming. When I discovered I was on campus I told myself "I need to talk to someone" and then she appeared. The more I write on this board, the more it seems as though this dream is a product of a wish I had buried years ago. I'm really trying to come to terms with it. Epilepsy has been such a stumbling block to me, perhaps the truth of my new "seizure free status" worked like yeast through my unconscious. My desire to "go back to school" was birthed when I woke up from the lucid dream. ----------- Although I began this post asking you to tell me what it might reveal, I'm reminded of my love for literature and learning. The woman reminded me of the "breathless literary type" that I admired when I was a co-ed, and with whom I loved talking books. Thanks for the suggestion - it's helped me to think a little bit more critically. She was otherwise a stranger to me.

[Philosopher8659]

First of all, at some point you might learn that one can be communicated to at any time by whatever it is. The communication was to you, and you alone. It was dangerous because, if it were mentioned, one could say that it was you who caused the stress that made the event happen. Seccond, no one could possibly believe you unless they were mad. One can only truly believe that which they experience. I find myself in a very precarious position. Perhaps I should leave the forum. I have a lot to do.

[Gamegrl]

Thanks, Philosopher. Please forgive me for my questioning. I'm coming from a skeptical but hopeful frame of mind. I'm using this board for answers and clarification. I hope that my dream is prophetic, but I don't really believe in the prophetic. I hope my question was not disrespectful - I didn't mean for it to be. My underlying question has always been "how strongly should I believe this"? But in my case I think I'd better just gather my reference letters and petition the college to let me return. I admit that I was looking for a little magic. It would be "nice" if my road back to college required no effort on my part, just a prophetic word from a dream. I appreciate and thank you for talking with me, Philosopher.

[Philosopher8659]

I was born with a very high IQ. I did quite well in what college I did attend, even won writing awards. I felt gulty for droping out, it was said I could have been anything I wanted to be. However, if I would have continued, I would have to deny the very thing that makes me different. I would have to exercise my memory at the expense of reason. I would have to ignore the simple fact that perhaps, I can contribute something of real value. To change the world for the better, one must first learn, and then teach man how to think. At first he will only understand by rote, but eventually, repetition after repetition, he will come to understand. I think it is directed evolution. Or maybe I am just fooling myself, but let me explain. The psych books are quite right, very high IQ people do think differently, however they could not exactly comprehend it. You learn, in elementary Set Theory, that there are 2 and only 2 methods of constructing a set--enumeration and definition. You also learn, that enumeration has no rule it has to follow, no law at all. But, definition is a standard that determines class membership. These are the two possible ways of founding human psychology also. You wonder why there are masses of people who gladly become cannon fodder? Why morals and love, etc come and go? Enumeration is memory. Nothing more. Learning by rote. Even their grammar systems looks like something ate by a blender. The other psycholgy, as you learn as Kohlbergs highest level of moral achievement, is based on definition. There really are only these two fundamental divisions. But imagine being borin in a world where you are drowned in type 1 psychology. There are no schools to aid you, no real understanding from your peers. Thankfullly, the Scripture is based on it, however, it is very advanced. The works of Plato is based on it, but none have suspected. A child of type 2 psychology could devestate Einstein, but would have a challenge in Plato. The principles of the grammar system for type 2 psychology have never been developed. Type 1 can never understand them. And, as history points out, type 2 generally dont understand what is wrong, and they end up dead. Lucid dreams and visions use type 2 abilities. More importantly, the Scripture, not as a religious document, indicates that humanity itself will evolve into a type 2 psychology--but it will not be pretty--and it will take a long time. Hopefully, I can come up with something useful. The real magic is understanding what is implied in my words, but there is no magic that can make a man different from himself.