Thread: Some questions on how far along I am in the process and what the best way to continue is

Hello Bob,

to DV

I am also very excited about the movie "Inception" looks like an awsome movie. It is from the director of the Dark Knight, so yeah . Anyway sounds like you have your occasional lucid dreams from the DILD technique, where you realize that something isn't right and realize it is a dream. Something I would suggest is to try to get about 8 hours of sleep more often instead of 6. The last few hours of sleep is whenever we have the longest dream or REM periods. I don't have any experiance with WILDs so far, but lots of people have success with it so it is worth a try. DILD tends to be an easier alternative for busy people but it isn't as realiable as WILD (given that you learn how to do it) can be. My personal favorite technique is WBTB. For example, waking up for about 15 minutes after sleeping for about 6 hours then going back to sleep. That increases your chances of lucidity by a lot. I believe that length of a DILD depends on how early in that REM period you catch that it is a dream. But if you time a WILD right, then you get the entire REM period as long as you can stay lucid and not get to excited and such.

Your last question about whether WILDs are unhealthy, I am fairly sure they aren't because many members here at DV WILD very often and they still post here . Give it a try and just remember that SP can't hurt you it is natural.

Good luck and keep lucid!

The best method to start LDing is exactly what you've been doing: dream journalling. By writing in your dream journal, you pay more attention to your dreams, and start noticing dream signs, even subconsciously. This makes a lot easier to DILD.

Also, you might want to start reality checking. For example, count your fingers every time you walk through a doorway. This RC is the most reliable RC I've come across.

I haven't done any techniques like WILD yet, so I can't help you there. But if you work on DILD first, you have a frame of reference to work from.

Welcome to the forum Bob!

I would love to answer some of your questions for you. I know that I don't have the most posts for this forum but I'd like to think that I've become pretty knowledgeable on dreaming and LDing since I started learning in 2007.

You're very fortunate to be a "natural" lucid dreamer. I have read that people that have had natural lucid dreams usually will find it easier to become lucid on purpose. That's mostly due to the fact that they've been there before and it isn't such an abstract goal. It's pretty common for lucid dreams to fall apart when you haven't learned to stabilize them. It's an easy thing to do, just try spinning around the next time you find that you're dreaming. It sound crazy but it's extremely effective.

Your experience with falling onto the mattress and the panning colors sound very much like sleep paralysis. It's normal to feel motion like falling, to hear voices and sounds, and to see colors like you describe when you're entering SP. I remember one of my first WILD very vividly because it felt like I had melted and slipped off the side of my bed into an abyss. It's trippy but it happens every night.

One dream a night is pretty good... at least for where I started. It is very important to maintain a dream journal if you want to have those DILDs and if you want to remember them. As you wake up and before you move try to remember as much as possible. I've heard that light destroys the memories you have of dreams. Your brain naturally forgets dreams as the day goes on so do it early. If your consistent you'll be able to remember 3 or 4 an night. Dream views has an excellent place to store your dream journal online if you're interested.

There are a ton of methods out there for inducing lucidity. Personally I think they all boil down to variations on the classic DILD and WILD. I hear from a lot of people that have just started LDing that they're afraid to try the WILD and it makes me sad. WILDing is truly the holy grail for LDers. I had one just this morning and I assure you that your fears are much worse than the actual transition from our world to the dream world. For me, I feel a wave wash over me and slowly I lose feeling in my body. I see a couple of shapes and hear wings beating in my ear with a soft tone in the background. It's exciting and a little scary but it passes quickly and leads to quality lucid dreams. I think it's an experience that everyone should have. Try it a couple times at least. DILD are great too and very effective when combined with a WBTB. I think to get the most out of your sleep you should use both in tandem.

I really wouldn't worry about LDing tiring your mind. During normal REM sleep your brain is working nearly as hard as when you're awake. So DILDs won't wear you out. WILDs are a little bit more intensive because you're waking up in the middle of the night. But the best WILD's are about 6 hours after you go to bed. Even then it's just like a normal dream so you won't be causing any damage. Still I'd recommend WILDing and WBTBs on weekends so you can rest afterward.

Once again, Welcome and Good Luck!

Thanks for all the info, guys!

Spiderman_859, thanks for the detailed info on WILD. I do have one memory of when I was around 6 when I lost all feeling while falling asleep and seeing a boar/pig-like thing slowly walking at me. (although it looked weird, like it had been drawn on a chalkboard with multi-colored chalk) and when I really attempted to move it disappeard. the sights and sounds aren't that scary to me (I could always have someone else in the room with me) but what I worry about it the feeling. I've heard people say before they feel like their bodies are being ripped open and that kind of thing. Is this true? if so, how painful can these things get?

You're more than welcome Bob... Your memory sounds a lot like the kind of hallucinations that happen when you're in SP with your eyes open. I remember one time I woke up from a nightmare in SP. One of the creatures from the nightmare "followed" me out of the dream and decided to stand on my immobilized chest and speak gibberish at me. It was extremely frightening... but not painful. Every experience I've had with SP has been without a single bit of pain. It's a little trippy the first few times but if you realize that it's natural it's mostly exciting. I don't want to call your source a liar but if it were extremely painful you'd wake up in pain every night. Now you might feel weird things happen to your body, like when I "melted", but it won't hurt. Just keep a level head through the transition and you'll be fine!

Sounds good. The place where I heard about the body ripping thing was in the Beyond Dreaming forum, which upon looking at other topics seems to have a lot of stuff that I wouldn't consider reliable info. Just in case, though, is it easy to either wake up or go to sleep while in SP? And should I close my eyes when I eventually try WILD?

Just some more info that's connecting the dots in my mind: I usually get the feelings of SP in the morning when I wake up and try to go back to sleep. Maybe I have accidently performed something like WBTB simply because I was too lazy to get out of bed.

One reason I may have naturally occuring LDs is because from the time I was very little my mother taught me the relaxing muscle technique where you relax sets at a time, which I just realized is on one of the main pages as a way to help bring around a LD.

I think I will start with just DILD and WBTB and get used to that and then do a WILD much later on (In the daytime, so that it won't be all dark and scary if a T-rex suddenly runs at me!) Also, I'll probably have someone else in the room with me so maybe in theory if a T-rex is standing there, seeing a family member walk through it will lower the tension a little bit. Since I naturally wake up sleeping on my chest that probably also means that I won't see as much stuff because I will only see part of a matress.

Thanks for all of your help. This stuff isn't as mysterious and abstract as I thought. I may be able to actually do this!

Oh yeah... I respect all those people, I'm just not a beyond dreaming guy myself. I've only tried to break away from SP once, during that nightmare with the creature, and it was pretty easy to do. I was panicking obviously but it didn't take long. I've heard that if you want to abort once you're in SP you can start to breath deeply which signals to your body that your mind is awake. You could also open your eyes or try to move. I think all of that would be an easy way to break SP. It seems like it's hard enough to get to SP and I'm always afraid of breaking it when I get there so if you get scared you should have no trouble getting out of it. Just don't be surprised when stuff doesn't respond right away . If you're brave it's just as easy to follow it into a dream. SP doesn't last long for me. I think at the most it lasts a couple minutes so you won't lose consciousness during the transition. Yes, you'll close your eyes when you wild. Check out the tutorial section for all the details. The one tip I can give that I don't know if the tutorials emphasize as much is that you should try and focus on getting to sleep and not getting to SP or relaxing super deep. Just go into it like you were trying to go to bed. Did I answer your question?

I've heard of that happening to people. I think it's a pretty common thing where SP sort of hangs over a little when people wake up. I would say that what you did more closely resembles a DEILD than a WBTB. I know there's a little bit of a lexicon to LDing but bear with me hehe. A WBTB usually involves getting out of bed whereas in a DEILD you'll lie perfectly still after you wake up from a dream and quickly reenter the dream like a wild. DEILDs are nice if your lucid falls apart on you.

Oh that's pretty cool, I had some experience with muscle relaxing when I was younger but it was pretty basic and I didn't practice. I'll try to teach my kids that when I have them.

DILDs and WBTB's are the right place to start. It would be disappointing if you performed a successful WILD, which isn't easy, and then had trouble controlling and maintaining your dream. When you do come to WILD I'll tell you that it won't be easy to pull off a day time WILD. But no worries. You'll learn all of that. I recommend picking up a copy of Exploring the World of Lucid Dreaming by Stephan LeBerge. It's a pretty quick read and it has everything you need to know about everything. And also checking out the tutorials section. It may seem like a lot to learn but it's really not.

You're very welcome Bob. I think I've found the place on this forum where I can be the most help. I had the same impressions of mysterious hippie stuff when I first discovered lucid dreaming but it's all based in science and concrete explanations. I like that about lucid dreaming. And you absolutely can do this! All you need is determination and a willingness to experiment. When you mess up, come to the forum. It's what we're here for. Good luck!

Well, I went to bed ad 12:30 AM last night and woke up at 10 AM, so I didn't get a very good night sleep. I didn't think I remembered any dreams but around noon today I remembered one so I must have woken up in the night. I wrote the dream down through a word processor because often I have terrible handwriting and I think about it a lot when I write, so I might forget the dreams. I only remember a little bit of the dream but I don't remember becoming lucid; this doesn't bother me as I am just trying to remember the dreams for now. I will try to remember more about tonight's dreams. I haven't actively tried WILD although I haven't tried NOT to get WILD while I sleep. Right before I wen't to sleep I felt some very very small vibrations although it wasn't nearly the normal ones I've gotten before. I fell asleep though, so I didn't feel anything else.

Just Curious...When WILDing, how does it look/feel when the dream starts? Is it just like a movie starting to play, or is it like you open your eyes again?

That's an interesting questions... for me it depends. Sometimes it's like I like I'm pushed out of a dark tube into the world and other times it's like the world forms around me in a colorful rush. To be honest tho I haven't paid much attention until now.

Intersting. Sorry if I have so many questions; this is all new stuff to me.

Once you know it's a dream, how do the other people in your dream act? Does your mind make them know they are in fact in a dream, or do they say "You crazy person!" in an attempt to make you go back to not being lucid? And how vivid is a lucid dream? I seem to remember my dreams being vivd at the time but they get kind of foggy later on. Right now my dream from last night is as vivid as my memory of, say, 2 weeks ago.

Haha, no problem man. I don't mind answering them.

Well for me all of my DCs, dream characters, are oblivious to the fact that they're figments of my imagination. The thing about DCs is that they're going to act how you expect them to act. So your parents will act like your parents and your friend will act like you friends. I guess the best answer to your question would be to tell someone you know really well that they aren't real and see what they do hahaha. I remember that a task of the month (like a little challenge they give you on the forum) was to ask a DC if they knew that it was a dream. I asked my mom and she said she knew. It was like she was an actress in a play hah.

Lucid dreams can be as vivid as real life. The cool thing about dreams is when you really focus in on something to observe it's details it becomes more detailed because you're paying attention to it. It's very different than real life tho. Words don't stay the same, clocks don't stay the same, hands don't stay the same. It's constantly changing but you'll never notice. And that's the thing about dreams. You can have a super clear lucid dream and if you wait to long to record it it becomes foggy and distant. It gets worse throughout the day.

Keep asking man, I want to get you ready to go .

Thanks! I may have had a lucid dream last night. The last few days I've been doing reality checks about like 50 times a day. ("I do the count my fingers on my hand", "try to breath while plugging my nose", and "doing double takes at digital clocks" stuff). Last night I had a dream and I slept through the night so I don't think I woke up. I don't remember anything about it except for a quick scene (looking for a shirt in my closet) and remembering that in the dream I was thinking about lucid dreaming. I don't know if I actually went lucid or just thought about it although in real life I usually do a reality check anytime I think about Lucid dreaming. Whether I had a lucid dream or not, I don't remember it so I'm not counting it.

However, after waking up at 7:00 I went back to sleep and had a dream that I remembered pretty well. I was able to get about a 5 or 6 sentence summary down as opposed to yesterday's 2 sentence summary, so I'm happy with the little progress with dream recal, although I'd still like to remember more. I am continuing reality checks so hopefully I'll become lucid soon. My problem is still the dream recall. Hopefully practice will make perfect.

@spiderman, when you say emphasis during WILDs should be on falling asleep, what then makes it a WILD and not trying to fall asleep normally? Just that little background awareness and the intention to WILD?

Hello bob.
By your first post, looks like you frequently wake up during the night. So, I would recommend you the FILD technique, works great for me.
http://www.dreamviews.com/community/...highlight=fild

hey great job Bob. It won't be long now... I knew that you were going to be a quick learner. Keep it up man!

@watching: I absolutely agree that you've got to realize the difference between falling asleep normally. It would be pretty ridiculous to think you could wild by just falling asleep. What I am saying however is that WILDing and falling asleep shouldn't feel too different from one another. When I wild I pretend that I'm trying to fall asleep normally so I can get the feel right. If you don't get that feel right it makes WILDing very difficult, at least for me. The times I've been the most successful at WILDing are when I get frustrated and try to go back to sleep haha. I think there is something to be said for that you know? I probably didn't phrase that very well above

Hey guys! Well two nights ago I had a totally unreal dream (I was surrounded by LEGO minifigure people) and become lucid, meaning I need to continue to perform reality checks until I do it like every 10 minutes in a dream.

I seem to have an issue in that I seem to only remember the last dream I had. But often my dreams transition and become something else but there's always a reason (for instance, in my dream 2 nights ago two people were flying a plane. I was not in the dream. They realize they can't fly it and panic and then suddenly I'm there. we're flying over Hawaii or something and I prepare to land. When I do, BAM! The other 2 are gone, and hawaii has been replaced with LEGO island. Everything is different except that I think I landed here even though there's no plane around me. Was that 2 dreams that faded into eachother or just a big one? Also, no matter how long I've slept my dreams only seem like 10 minutes upon remembering.

About the FILD, It sounds great for me and I wanted to try last night but I ended up staying up late so when I went to sleep I didn't wake until morning and I was too awake to go back to sleep.

About the "tingly" feeling the FILD gives you: How strong is it? is it uncomfortable? and in FILD will you feel SP. Even though I've felt SP before I'd like to avoid it if I can.

Originally Posted by BobBlusoe

Hey guys! Well two nights ago I had a totally unreal dream (I was surrounded by LEGO minifigure people) and become lucid, meaning I need to continue to perform reality checks until I do it like every 10 minutes in a dream.

I seem to have an issue in that I seem to only remember the last dream I had. But often my dreams transition and become something else but there's always a reason (for instance, in my dream 2 nights ago two people were flying a plane. I was not in the dream. They realize they can't fly it and panic and then suddenly I'm there. we're flying over Hawaii or something and I prepare to land. When I do, BAM! The other 2 are gone, and hawaii has been replaced with LEGO island. Everything is different except that I think I landed here even though there's no plane around me. Was that 2 dreams that faded into eachother or just a big one? Also, no matter how long I've slept my dreams only seem like 10 minutes upon remembering.

About the FILD, It sounds great for me and I wanted to try last night but I ended up staying up late so when I went to sleep I didn't wake until morning and I was too awake to go back to sleep.

About the "tingly" feeling the FILD gives you: How strong is it? is it uncomfortable? and in FILD will you feel SP. Even though I've felt SP before I'd like to avoid it if I can.

The technique don't last more than 30 seconds, usually; from the start of the fingers movement to entering the dream, everything happens fast, read the lastests posts of the thread, will give you an idea. You will not feel anything unconfortable, and will not get into SP.

I'll visit this thread always I can, if you have any question about FILD I'll try to help.

Cool thanks! Yeah I'm going to try it tonight. I read a lot of the link you gave me besides the technique and was wondering a quick thing. A lot of people say that once they know they are dreaming it's just black. some say to spin and change locations, some say to visualize the room you fell asleep in, and somebody said to think of the place you wanted to go while doing the finger thing. What do you do? And does it work (and do these other techniques work as well?)

Also I worry that as soon as I get into the dream I will become so excited I will just get out of it again.

Originally Posted by BobBlusoe

Cool thanks! Yeah I'm going to try it tonight. I read a lot of the link you gave me besides the technique and was wondering a quick thing. A lot of people say that once they know they are dreaming it's just black. some say to spin and change locations, some say to visualize the room you fell asleep in, and somebody said to think of the place you wanted to go while doing the finger thing. What do you do? And does it work (and do these other techniques work as well?)

Also I worry that as soon as I get into the dream I will become so excited I will just get out of it again.

Ya, really forgot to mention the black start. Well, the two times i've done this technique - and worked awesomely - (and I'm trying again, but I need to adjust my alarm correctly or just wake up on the right time), it starts black, but I just try to stand up (the dream with FILD, for me, always starts on my bedroom, and I'm laying on my bed), my bedroom will, eventualy, appear. I always rub my hands together as soon the reality check works, even if it's all black, it make the scene apears faster. I don't know if it happens becouse I just expect to be in my bedroom, I've never tried to visualize another scene, I just leave by my bedroom's door or fly through the window, hehe. But it's important to try to stabilize at the time your reality check worked - rub your hands, spin, etc ; there are other ways too, if you want check the "Dream Control" section on the forums.

You probably will wake up at some point, since you are a beginner at inducing just like me. But focus on the dreamscene, stabilize with a technique that suits for you (mine is rubing my hands and sometimes shouting words). That's it, try to focus and you'll do a very fine lucid dream for the first time - don't panic.

Ah that make sense. I keep forgetting when I wake up in the night and I jusst go back to sleep without trying, so I think I need an alarm or something in order to do it. I'll try to try that tonight. If it works, I think I'm going to try waking up in another bedroom, so I can really tell the difference between real and dream.

In theory, if I waited until right when I was about to fall asleep, couldn't I do this technique without sleeping for 4 hours first?

Originally Posted by BobBlusoe

Ah that make sense. I keep forgetting when I wake up in the night and I jusst go back to sleep without trying, so I think I need an alarm or something in order to do it. I'll try to try that tonight. If it works, I think I'm going to try waking up in another bedroom, so I can really tell the difference between real and dream.

In theory, if I waited until right when I was about to fall asleep, couldn't I do this technique without sleeping for 4 hours first?

I've tried doing it when going to sleep, and I would tell that it's a very, very difficult thing to do, since your brain need to be using REM waves in order to the technique to work, and it does not happens when you go to bed, only after like 20 minutes or more (I don't know exactly how much time) after you fell asleep. The two times I tried this technique and it worked I had woke up in the middle of the night or beginning of the morning.
I've set my alarm to 7AM last night, I woke up but I was so sleepy that I forgot to turn off the alarm an try the technique - it was the best time to try it, almost instant success hehe.

Well last night I once again failed to FILD because my alarm sound was too calming and I slept through it. I finally found a perfect alarm for me- the theme song to Curb Your Enthusiasm...Calm and not ominous but loud. I am going to try it again tonight. Today I picked up The book "Exploring the world of lucid dreaming" by Stephen Laberge just to see if it has any interesting info.

I noticed that the last two nights I didn't recal barely any dreams. I usually have fairly good dream recall. These past 2 nights I stayed up very late and woke up a lot in the night. Usually if I wake up I go right to my computer and write my dreams down but I just went back to sleep because I was trying to to the FILD thing. Can these factors account for this? If I go back to a good night's sleep will my dream recall be good again?

People say that a consistent night of sleep, like sleeping at the same time everyday improves the recall. I don't think it applies to me, I'll have my normal recall if I sleep enough time, don't matter if I went late to bed or not, but everyone is different. It's normal to have some nights where you can't recall any dreams.
My alarm is being a complete failure to me, too. Or I sleep through it, or I fail at FILD. Guest it's better to me wake up during the night with any help, just by myself, looks like works better to me hehe. I'll try to combine a type of MILD to wake up during the night and try FILD, it worked in the past times.

A tip - have a small notebook or notepad by somewhere close to your bed, when you wake up during the night and remember any dreams, write some keywords, and when you read those keywords during the morning, it will trigger your memory and you'll be able to write on your computer with more details.

Thanks. People say that you can feel vibrations in your sleep so maybeif I set my alarm on vibrate and put it on like my wrist or something it would trigger a wake up without the loud noise