New, with a question about a DC

[AmberGizmo]

Hi! I'm really excited to have found this site, it seems to be just what the doctor ordered. I've been Ld'ing forever it seems; ever since I was a child LDs have come naturally to me. It wasn't until high school that I really came to grips with that. I had thought that everyone had as many LDs as me, that everyone could fly when they slept. After that I started doing research on it, finding out that some people are more inclined to LD than others. It wasn't until earlier this year that I really began training myself to LD. It was in January, I forget the exact date; that I met Jack. As a writer and an artist I have dozens, maybe hundreds of characters living in the world that my imagination has created for them. Jack was one of them; a character for a story that I've yet to write. Like all of my principal characters, he had his own room in the "main hall" which -at the time- was an endless hallway of doors. Like all of the figments, he was like a puppet at first; saying and doing what I subconsciously told him to, acting out scenes from the story with the other characters etc. I only saw him when I was awake, daydreaming or picturing a scene; never in a dream. At that time I'd told him that he could do what he wanted with "his room"; change it to whatever he wanted (I know that I would have made the change, but it always helped me write when I thought of the characters as real people). He didn't seem to understand, didn't believe that he was a figment (they never do) so he left the room blank (white walls and floors; simple, white furniture and a large window filled so much with sunlight that whatever was beyond it was washed out.) It was in January then that he crossed over from my waking imagination into my dreamworld. That's when I first really met him. He acted like he always had, but it didn't feel like I was controlling him anymore. He'd changed his blank room into a sort of studio apartment, the window had moved to a different wall and now looked out at a distant city that -from subsequent dreams- is perpetually stuck somewhere between two and four A.M. We actually had a nice, lengthy conversation about his story during that dream. He's the only figment that's made the jump to my dreams, as such I "see" him all the time; awake and asleep. He's basically just a "voice" in my head while I'm awake, which is when we have most of our interactions. On a deeper level I know that he's me, a facet of myself; I know he's here to help me with something, he's told me that. But I haven't had a good, vivid LD with him since that first one, which is why I've started training. The thing is, we both know that he's part of me; we choose to ignore that. I'm afraid that if I go to far, if I get into the higher levels of lucidity; that the illusion that he's "real" will be broken. I'm not sure how we'll react to that, if my brain will try helping me by using a different representation. if it does, will Jack just disappear? That would suck, we've actually become good friends in the time he's been around. Sorry for the long winded post, but this has been bothering me for months and I figure that other Oneironauts might have some good advice. ~AG

[Philosopher8659]

Are you sure that this is what the doctor ordered? I would have suspected medication. I am not convinced that one can be lucid while dreaming, but not lucid when awake. Lucidity is not just a function of perceptual information--even with memory, it involves the judgmental capabilities also--one cannot have one without the other. Therefore, many think they are lucid dreaming, when in fact, they are not. In fact, there have been some, Plato, and the originator of scripture, even quotes from Christ, which all state, and quite rightly, that if the mind has not judgmental faculties, it is not awake. Ever wonder what "Let the dead bury the dead meant."? Every lasting piece of literature of any value differs in a fundamental way from other literature and you must learn to see it, if you can by a common fact. There are two ways to construct a set, enumeration and definition. Thus there are two categories of liturature. One class is just a heap of words, no matter how gratifying they might be, the other are words constrained by some form, some definition. They are not written to be pleasant or unpleasant--that is not part of the form. Sometimes this definition is called a principle. The greatest forms constraining one's words are those, of course, which maintain and promote one's life. The worst, those forms which destroy life. If one understands the truth of the matter, then the greatest forms of lit, may very well be the least popular.

[AmberGizmo]

That makes no sense for several reasons: 1. You're on a lucid dreaming forum, and don't believe in lucid dreaming? 2. For that matter I don't know how you can't believe in lucid dreaming as it's been scientifically proven, tested and studied for years. 3. Lastly; are you trying to give me advice about dreaming, or a literature lesson? now I'm just confused O_o ~AG

[Philosopher8659]

You certainly are confused--for if you gather that I know nothing of lucid dreaming from what I wrote, it is not me, but you who say you need help with literary interpretation. Also, if you can ramble on with non-sense, why cannot I ramble on with something that makes sense? Call it an example.

[AmberGizmo]

I'm sorry that my post didn't make sense to you, I suppose it was too much to hope that it would make sense to anyone. However, your medicine quip was hurtful. I've had people telling me I'm crazy my whole life, quite frankly, I'm sick of it. I didn't mean to imply that you knew nothing of lucid dreaming, I merely took your words at face value. If that wasn't your intention than I'm sorry if I seemed snippy; but whatever your deeper meaning might have been was lost to me. There seems to have been an overall misunderstanding, I never intended to ask for literary interpretation. I was really just expressing my concern about the higher levels of lucidity, probably should have changed the title with the way the post's body was written. ~AG

[Brunor2]

People say that you can, in lucid dreams, talk or interect with your subconcious mind. Have you tought this dream character could be a representation of your subconcious ? Since you put it like a special DC. And, be wellcome to Dreamviews, you are lucky to be able to LD so easly, people here are working hard to have at least some

[Philosopher8659]

I'm sorry that my post didn't make sense to you, I suppose it was too much to hope that it would make sense to anyone. However, your medicine quip was hurtful. I've had people telling me I'm crazy my whole life, quite frankly, I'm sick of it. I didn't mean to imply that you knew nothing of lucid dreaming, I merely took your words at face value. If that wasn't your intention than I'm sorry if I seemed snippy; but whatever your deeper meaning might have been was lost to me. There seems to have been an overall misunderstanding, I never intended to ask for literary interpretation. I was really just expressing my concern about the higher levels of lucidity, probably should have changed the title with the way the post's body was written. ~AG I have a very clear notion of sanity and render it by definition. One's distinction between the real and imagined is a range between complete dysfunction and complete function of the human mind. One displays their place in that range by how they express themselves. And how one responds to imaginary things, is an expression. It is not what people call a thing that determines what it is, what it is is how that thing responds to the environment. You should be less concerned about being hurt by words and more by what is happening in your mind.

[luciddreamrc]

Well his first part of the post is saying it's not enough to just become lucid and only DO things in your dreams and then remembering them. Your normal waking-life judging system must be implemented into your actions as well. And to your first post, you do seem like someone who would typically be called crazy and be asked to take medication but it really isn't your fault. Just know that almost everyone has a different perspective about life and everyday normal things than you do aand that when you start talking about some guy you see in waking life who isn't real, it can be quite queer to our eyes. Basically what I am saying is this isn't a forum where people can empathize with your experiences about Jack. That isn't to say you aren't welcome though, it sounds like you have a lot of interesting things to say. And to philosopher....I think what you are trying to say in the second half of your post would be lost by many people. Would you mind explaining it better?

[Philosopher8659]

Well his first part of the post is saying it's not enough to just become lucid and only DO things in your dreams and then remembering them. Your normal waking-life judging system must be implemented into your actions as well. And to your first post, you do seem like someone who would typically be called crazy and be asked to take medication but it really isn't your fault. Just know that almost everyone has a different perspective about life and everyday normal things than you do aand that when you start talking about some guy you see in waking life who isn't real, it can be quite queer to our eyes. Basically what I am saying is this isn't a forum where people can empathize with your experiences about Jack. That isn't to say you aren't welcome though, it sounds like you have a lot of interesting things to say. And to philosopher....I think what you are trying to say in the second half of your post would be lost by many people. Would you mind explaining it better? One thing though that I am curious about, as I have had some experience with it. Can her mind become more functional by what she learns by lucid dreaming? That has been a question I have longed to know for years. First she would have to realize something is wrong, and secondly have a deep desire to fix it.

[AmberGizmo]

oh I don't actually see him lol! now that would be crazy. what I meant by that is seeing him in daydreams and in my mind's eye. and when I say that he's a "voice in my head while I'm awake" I don't mean that I actually hear him. it's more like the voice in my head that I hear when I read, narrating the story as I read it. Now I understand why my original post must be so confusing! Also, I sure hope Jack is a visualization of my subconscious! Or else I might have to put a little more stock in what the shrinks said. ~AG

[Philosopher8659]

Nice dodge. I hide too, but I hide because I am on the other side of the bell curve.

[luciddreamrc]

Philosopher. Probably not. If anything, lucid dreaming is purely imaginative and wouldn't be helpful at all. After reading the post she posted right after yours, it seems like she just grew up with a very peculiar perspective of her own conscious. Amber, that 'voice' is just your conscious trying to make sense of itself. If you aren't seeing anything, I really feel your whole life your conscious has been perceived as another person by you. It might take a while to fully realize but this 'Jack' person is you and it is what everyone has intuitively. Oh and Jack being in your dreams....your mind just made this person up because it is only natural for you that he is there. Basically, he is just like any other person you would find in a dream but since he is important to you, your mind will continue to build on his personality and such. Just know that in your dreams, he is just a normal dream character and in waking-life, it is your conscious. There is no other person involved in any of this. It is just you

[AmberGizmo]

lol I know I'm crazy, everyone is a little crazy (or else the shrinks would run out of patients) But I'd really like to apologize Philosopher, I often forget that my vivid imagination is a gift. I forget that not everyone can go on a whirlwind journey through their imaginary world every time the right song comes on. As such, my explanations of what goes on in my head are often vague in the very place where I should be painfully specific. I didn't understand you, and in my ignorance I became defensive and lashed out; for that I'm deeply sorry. To luciddreamrc; I know that, you couldn't have explained it any better if you tried. I know that Jack is me, I choose to let him go on -to some extent- as if he is a separate person because it works better that way. It's how I'v always thought of my characters -dream or otherwise- if I think of them as facets of myself then I'm just writing myself into a story, I'm just talking to myself in a dream. ~AG

[luciddreamrc]

lol I know I'm crazy, everyone is a little crazy (or else the shrinks would run out of patients) But I'd really like to apologize Philosopher, I often forget that my vivid imagination is a gift. I forget that not everyone can go on a whirlwind journey through their imaginary world every time the right song comes on. As such, my explanations of what goes on in my head are often vague in the very place where I should be painfully specific. I didn't understand you, and in my ignorance I became defensive and lashed out; for that I'm deeply sorry. ~AG This sounds like something your shrink told you to do. 'Tis true, you shouldn't lash out at someone because you don't understand. Just remember, your perspective on things are very different from everyone else. Your imagination is not perceived as a gift by many. Your imagination is just a different type of imagination and if you can control it, then it would truly be a gift. When dealing with people, try to see from their point of view. Just play it over in your head, what would this person think If I did this. You will cut down on a lot of bullshit in your life this way

[AmberGizmo]

I only went to the shrink once, well... I went to a psycologist and a psychiatrist for some school program. I came back with a thirty page long write up on every tiny thing that was "wrong" with me. After that nothing happened. I was never legally diagnosed with anything, but they both suggested further treatment; but that didn't happen because I was on the waiting list for so long they just dropped me from the program. I always have to remind myself that my mind works in drastically different ways than most people.

[reci]

Sorry about the pessimism that comes from some people on this forum. Anyways to your question. Will Jack disappear if you "get into the higher levels of lucidity"? It is possible that he could, but it is recommended that oneironauts be just that: explorers of the dream world, not the ultimate controllers. If you keep yourself in a passive position in your dreams, you will be amazed at all of the creativity that pops up from your subconscious. Granted, it is expected for oneironauts to exercise their control over dreams, but not too much... But you may do as you please for the above is solely my opinion.

[AmberGizmo]

Thanks Prog, I had similar thoughts about that. I also figured that, in the early stages of learning control I'd probably stick to familiar areas of my dreamworld. My goal right now is, once I'm lucid; go to a specific place in my dreamworld, one I'm very familiar with. If I can manage just to get there and let the dream unfold from there, I can practice that a bit and then move on to another goal. ~AG

[MadMonkey]

Very interesting. I don't think Jack will disapear once you become more lucid. When your in a lucid dream, atleast a stable one, even though you realise that everything is being generated by your own mind it usualy dosn't dissapear. Lots of people purposley make DCs that are more direct manifestations of their subconcious called dream guides. I'm searching for mine now. Just don't wory about it to much. Also don't mind Philosopher. He always writes in a more complex way that most people arn't able to understand what hes trying to say and can be a bit arogant when they don't. His intentions are good. I don't think your crazy. You have a very vivid imagination which most people don't have. I'm sure it helps you a whole lot in writing books. Just be careful when wording that stuff to make it clear you know its your imagination. Also, welcom to dream views.

[AmberGizmo]

Thanks MadMonkey. I suppose the only thing left to do now is work on having a stable LD.