Thread: The extent of lucidity in any given dream.

The answer to all of your questions is "yes." Of course, I shall elaborate for your benefit.

1. Control varies depending on your state of mind, which itself varies from lucid to lucid.

2. There are people who have attained this level of mastery. I'm still working toward that point myself, albeit at my own leisurely pace. =P

3. You can do anything you can conceive.

The literal limits are the bounds of your imagination. Therefore, the possibilities are not entirely infinite. See 3.

Also, welcome to DV. XD

Ah, thanks Mzzkc, for the answers and the welcome!

Oh, one more question! When you wake up from a dream in the middle of the night (too early to actually get up), do you write it in your dream journal right then or go back to sleep in pursuit of a DEILD? I mean, which is better for achieving a DEILD?

That is up to you!!

If you wake up and have an awesome dream, I would write it down. If it's a crappy dream, you will want to sacrifice it for a DEILD. You might remember both. There is a chance of forgetting the dream, but not always. I chained successfully three dreams (lucids) in a row. I almost forgot the first one though. Just do not DEILD more than two times in a row (so three dreams total maximum) or you recall will be greatly threatened for those dreams, specially the first one)

DEILD is fun though, you must try it out!

Welcome to DV! Take a look over our guides, they are a lot of help!

Originally Posted by PercyLucid

Just do not DEILD more than two times in a row (so three dreams total maximum) or you recall will be greatly threatened for those dreams, specially the first one)

Yeah, even I have trouble with recall past 6 or so, but that still shouldn't stop you from going for broke, IMO. Worst case scenario, you'll remember the LDs with impact and forget the mundane ones.

Yeah... It happened to me for the first time in this dream:

Talking with a deceased family member - Dream Journals - Dreamviews Lucid Dreaming Community & Resource

The lucid had a lot of impact, so that might helped, but about recalling the dream chained before the lucid... not even a single word of a fragment, nothing... it was removed entirely from my brain.

Oh yeah, I've read a lot of stuff on here already (or so I think). I was curious about how you guys do the DEILD chain because, according to some of the information I've read, the REM cycles get longer as you progress in sleep. I hadn't considered the possibility of one earlier lucid dream being greater in quality than a later one. But I think your tendencies are logical.

Basically, two days ago I decided to look into lucid dreaming. That first night I had only read a few things I found on Google, mostly in respect to keeping a dream journal. That night I had a very detailed dream. Took about 35 minutes to type up. I'm not sure it qualifies as vivid, but I remembered many things with great clarity, although it was not lucid. I discovered this site yesterday, and read about some of the strategies. I tried to stay focused when I went to sleep, but failed, apparently. I woke several times during the night, grasping threads of previous dreams, and remembered the DEILD thing, trying to reenter them. Nonetheless, my efforts were fruitless, and when I got up for good, I had nothing to write down. I only vaguely remembered the blocky landscape of a Minecraft world, if you guys know what I'm talking about.

If I may ask one more question: I have a pretty ridiculous list of things I'd like to accomplish in my dreams. Tons of specific stuff. And I notice the lists of other users around here as well, many fairly incomplete. I'm not particularly worried about losing motivation at this point; the stuff fascinates me. But some things, particularly the difficulty many people have with simply maintaining a lucid dream, concern me. Is it possible to be too ambitious? I'm worried I'm about to put a lot of time into these things only to be disappointed.

I very much appreciate your advice guys. This place, I've found, has an excellent community!

Maintaining LDs isn't difficult if you've put enough effort into properly developing situational awareness. I don't know if anyone else has noticed the trend, but people with better IWL awareness tend to have longer LDs. Surprisingly, it makes a lot of sense if you look at the mechanics behind stabilization and what's needed to maintain awareness.

I say keep your ambitions high, but know that most Oneironauts have to work very hard to get to the point you want to be at. However, you may find you're an exception to this rule. You'll never know until you give it a shot!

Interesting. Practice, I will! Mind if I ask what IWL stands for? I searched it, but couldn't find it.

But that pretty much answers all of my questions. I really appreciate the help! All of this really sounds like a ton of fun!

IWL == In Waking Life.

Whoa, I never would have figured that. What is meant by such awareness? Just of what is going on? The senses? How the air smells, and the keyboard feels?

Sorry if I'm bugging you with the questions.

No, it's cool. I enjoy helping out where I can, especially when the questions are focused and well thought out.

Practicing awareness, at its core, means turning off auto-pilot and engaging in the world around you. Yes, taking in the subtle details life has to offer is part of that, but there's more to it than that. Honestly, there are members on this forum that could explain it much better than I could hope to *cough* Naiya *cough*.

For now, just know that properly RCing is a great way to start developing awareness. Just be cautious of making it into a habit. IMO, RCing should never become habitual, because that defeats the whole purpose of breaking out of drone-mode and truly probing your surroundings.

Heh, in response to your awareness thing, I happily took note of my dog's likeness to corn chips in smell before going to bed.

And then I made an attempt at a WILD. My actual plan, as it stands, is to an attempt a WBTB tonight, as it sounds logical and effective. But I figured I'd try to achieve sleep paralysis in the least before then.

. . . But man, was that a futile attempt. I've read another thread on the subject, and people seem to have similar problems as I. Swallowing saliva, mainly, although I did find that laying on my back helped, where I normally sleep on my stomach. Nonetheless, I could not paralyze myself. Once my leg seemed to have a vibrating sensation, but that was it besides a feeling of being filled with concrete. After counting sheep, repeating sentences, and simply counting, I decided to simply see what time it was, as I had not felt any significant change.

Anyways, I had spent an hour in my face-down position with no results. I then made an attempt in the face-up position, which seemed better because I did not have to swallow at all. I'd say that's progress, but now I can't sleep and it's 2:50.

I also tend to have other things on my mind going with my attempts at concentration. I'll be counting, but with music from, at one point, the Battlestar Galactica soundtrack going with my counting. Is this just a problem I'll have to work to overcome?

First off, it's a terrible idea to try to WILD without racking up a decent amount of sleep beforehand. This is because you are nowhere near REM right before bed. Google "stages of sleep."

Also, I suggest you take a look at the WILD link in my sig before you make any further attempts. It might save you a lot of un-needed frustration.

Ah, that did answer many questions that did come up on the first attempt. Your strategy on falling asleep for some time and then attempting a WILD is what is known as a WBTB, right? Or is that totally different?

I thought it was a true WILD if it was done before any sleep. I also thought it was possible, but difficult, which is why I figured it wouldn't hurt to try.

I'll take that information to heart!

Yes, it's a WBTB, and it's almost necessary for most people to achieve a WILD. Yes, it can be done right before bed, but again the closest REM period when first falling asleep is often over an hour away, and it doesn't last very long.

"Why is REM so important when WILDing?" you might ask. I'll quote myself on this one: "Your most intense, vivid, and memorable dreams occur during REM. I don't know why you'd want to be lucid anytime else. Even if you managed getting lucid from a non-REM dream, stabilization would be tricky at best, and it's likely the dream wouldn't last longer than a minute or two. But if you want crappy LDs badly enough to go through the hassle of a WILD attempt right when going to bed, all the more power to you. I'll stick with my lengthy and quality LDs, thanks."

Just wanted to let you know of my experiences last night, along with a weird problem I've had.

I decided I'd try a WBTB last night. So I went to bed, determined to have a lucid, but not focusing as hard as one would if trying to WILD. I fell asleep some time later, and dreamt. My alarm woke me up 5 hours and 45 minutes later, and I proceeded to type up my dreams. Here they are, below, if you're interested.

Spoiler for dream:

Non-dream
Dream
Lucid
----------Tallies----------
Lucid: 0
Lucid-control: 0
WILD: 0
DILD: 0
DEILD: 0
WBTB: 0
----------Tallies----------
July 20th, 2010 – 0447
[Redacted: band director] is involved in some sort of concert somewhere. We are in a huge concert hall. The stage is set into a corner, as if one square in an intersection of two, with the seats in the other square sloping down as is normal. The hall does not seem very musically inclined; as the surfaces are bare. Nonetheless, the hall is clearly of great importance. [Band director] needs help setting up, and I am going to help him. This involves removing all of the pipes from a marimba and distributing them correctly. I just take the pipes off and hand them to the person looking for that type. Once the job is done, I am paid about $35, just as everyone else is. As everyone goes off for the concert, I stick around to work in a nearby closet. [Band director] notices this, and through [redacted: band kid 1], sends me $100. [Band kid 1] and I are both pretty shocked. Soon, several other band members and [band director] descend upon us. But I find myself entering a different world. There is a small, circular house. It has only one room, and resembles a short, fat mushroom without a cap. In fact, it’s painted exactly as a mushroom. It looks like something out of the Smurfs. Anyways, the world around me is magnificent and grand. The air has a green tint to it. The house sits on a piece of land, almost cliff-like, about ten feet above an ocean or lake. In the distance, I see huge waterfalls on giant pieces of land that rise impossibly high with their blocky shapes. I enter the house, band people following. On one side is kitchen material. A table is to the left, for eating. A bed sits off-center, to the left. The center is dominated by another, larger table, which is circular and looks like a mushroom itself, albeit a wooden brown. Next to the door, a small TV sits on a chest. Windows are place at 90 degrees, except for two windows on either side of the door. I discuss the layout of the house with the other members. I definitely remember [redacted: band kid 2] and [band kid 1] being there, with [band director], with whom I am primarily conversing. We discuss some politics, along with how the TV is “bringing” death to Asia and its oppressed peoples. The leaders of the oppressors do not like this, but the TV is invading. I lose consciousness of that area as a HUD shows me documentation on the preservation of the spine with age, so that people may grow old and remain independent. A spine rotates within the confines of the rib cage, different sections being highlighted as a narrator drones on about their functions. Research data flows down the sides of my vision, along with code or text that is otherwise trash. (July 20th, 2010 – 0501)

So apparently I found none of this strange, as I never became lucid. I guess I just need more time to get to the DILD thing.

I hope you'll forgive the lack of paragraphs. I like to use good grammar, spelling, and the like, but I'm not so determined with the paragraphs.

Anyways, are the three different "areas" different dreams? I cannot recall a transition between any of them. I was in one, and suddenly another. Concert, house, HUD film.

After completing the journal, I browsed around a bit on this website, reading more about WILDs. After having been awake (but not up and about--I had simply laid there the whole time) for about 30 minutes, I decided it was time to attempt a WILD/WBTB.

Laying there, I never noticed any significant change in the way I felt. I repeated a mantra at the back of my mind, but focused on falling asleep as you've said. However, I did try to envision the area in which I wanted to find myself, trying to "pop" in.

I kept doing this, but I never experienced sleep paralysis or any hypnagogic hallucinations. At some point, my location seemed hazy, but I felt I couldn't move or check in any way, in case I was not actually asleep and just disturbing the process. I couldn't tell if I was in my mind or not, and questioned my judgment.

And, 4.5 hours later, I awoke with no memory of dreaming whatsoever.

Comments?

EDIT: Oh, I just remembered another dream as I was making oatmeal. It wasn't lucid, but it was definitely separate from the other dreams. Still, it was extremely vivid. I'll add it to this post later.

Spoiler for other dream:

Non-dream
Dream
Lucid
----------Tallies----------
Lucid: 0
Lucid-control: 0
WILD: 0
DILD: 0
DEILD: 0
WBTB: 0
----------Tallies----------
July 20th, 2010 – 1106
I am living or working on a ranch of some sort. Life is happy here, and the guys are good. The one woman on the ranch is tough and fits in well, and everybody gets along well. The woman has a baby. All of the significant ranch buildings seem undersized, miniature, as well as cluttered together behind a wall anyone could jump over. One night, we are attacked. I find myself underground, in a spherical arena without seats for spectators. I and three others enter from a door on the underside of the sphere, and there are platforms and weapons here and there. We find ourselves tasked with defending the area from an onslaught of underground monsters. Their natures I cannot determine, but they can be killed. They come in waves. My cousin Nick is there defending as well, but he is dragged into one of the oblique tunnels from which the monsters enter. I go in after him. After fighting through the passageways, I save him. He is mostly unharmed. Upon returning to the actual sphere, we find two other men have joined – they had thought us dead. Once the attack ends, we return to the passage from which we came, entering an elevator, which takes us to a different room where our comrades are recovering. I suddenly find myself on the surface, cleaning up. There are no bodies or any other evidence of an attack. I look around. There are others behind me. I spot one of the ranchers – my friend, I know it (although I do not actually know him or his name) – in the playground, under the slide. A bullet struck him in the chest. His injury is glowing gold, and his blood appears as some sort of thick yellow sap on the ground. He will survive. Suddenly, it is revealed that we are not actually above ground. We are actually in a blue, very little-lit . . . catacomb. We pull our friend out, and the group heads upstairs, to an area above where we found him (which was actually in a very difficult-to-reach cranny passage). We find an opening above where he was, along with a little pulley. We raise something up . . . it is the woman’s baby! It is covered in blood, not moving, but suddenly it begins to cry. The woman freaks out and picks it up, but somehow I am then the only one there, holding the baby. Its face contorts, cycles between crying and smiling, trying to suck its thumb. The blood appears and disappears, as if it’s not actually been injured. Suddenly, I am back down at the passage-nook that the other rancher had been found in. A trail of blood is there, streaked, as if he had been dragged out. This time, the blood is normal, red. I crawl into the passage, putting everything together, and suddenly the truth is apparent. I find the basket at the end of the passage, in a yellow glow, and the dream ends. (July 20th, 2010 – 1119)