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    1. #26
      Member blackjack's Avatar
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      hey im black and ima carib we don't whine , but yeah i agree some people don't try and expect to be hand fed
      I have a dream...

    2. #27
      widdershins modality Achievements:
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      Quote Originally Posted by nitsuJ View Post
      guerilla, what he meant i think is that most people views the whites as the "only" racist groups in the world. it seems ok for blacks and others to do racial things and most ignore the fact that it's racist in nature, but as soon as a white person does something racial you have to stop the presses and order a hit on the white person.
      If you actually interact with intelligent people of a variety of races, you'll find they recognize racist assholes of their own race as well as whites. For that matter, most black people I've known in white-majority institutions (college, work places, activism) radically underestimate the prevalence of racism in whites, both within the institution and generally. I cannot tell you how many times I've heard white people, whether the poor ones I grew up with or the middle class to wealthy ones I've made my living on, make stomach-turning, faith-in-humanity-demolishing generalizations and analyses of any and all of "those people."

      As for anti-white racism, I encounter it most often from middle class whites directed at the poor and working class: white trash, rednecks, hillbillies. Black and Mexican and Puerto Rican people would not think of saying these things to my face out of basic respect, but white and Asian people say it without blinking.

      Regarding the recent studies, by the way, whites will be reduced to a mere overwhelming plurality by 2042--46% by the NYTimes numbers.
      If you have a sense of caring for others, you will manifest a kind of inner strength in spite of your own difficulties and problems. With this strength, your own problems will seem less significant and bothersome to you. By going beyond your own problems and taking care of others, you gain inner strength, self-confidence, courage, and a greater sense of calm.Dalai Lama



    3. #28
      Call me Dw Dreamworld's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by nitsuJ View Post
      no it's a factual statement, they cry, yet they were treated better than native americans.



      no they don't exist anymore, and as was already stated there's no need for reparations to be paid to the african americans because slaves aren't owned anymore and none of them lived through slavery.

      EDIT: Mes Tarrant, what is "QFT"?
      They were not treated better than native americans.. they were killed with disease, etc. Not all black people think that way..

    4. #29
      Omnipotent Being. nitsuJ's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Taosaur View Post
      If you actually interact with intelligent people of a variety of races, you'll find they recognize racist assholes of their own race as well as whites. For that matter, most black people I've known in white-majority institutions (college, work places, activism) radically underestimate the prevalence of racism in whites, both within the institution and generally. I cannot tell you how many times I've heard white people, whether the poor ones I grew up with or the middle class to wealthy ones I've made my living on, make stomach-turning, faith-in-humanity-demolishing generalizations and analyses of any and all of "those people."

      As for anti-white racism, I encounter it most often from middle class whites directed at the poor and working class: white trash, rednecks, hillbillies. Black and Mexican and Puerto Rican people would not think of saying these things to my face out of basic respect, but white and Asian people say it without blinking.

      Regarding the recent studies, by the way, whites will be reduced to a mere overwhelming plurality by 2042--46% by the NYTimes numbers.
      yes, intelligent people will know that they have racists of their own race, but the majority of the time it does seem that only whites can be racist, usually to from my experiences it's more "acceptable" for someone else to say/do something racist than it is for a white person.

      there's some chain letter that bounces around a lot on the internet that has some pretty good little sayings in it that i find would be true, i don't know where it's at but one that i can remember states something like this:

      it's ok for there to be a BET (black entertainment television) channel, but if there was a WET (white entertainment television) channel it'd probably be considered racist television.

      where i live is a rural part of tennessee and there's a lot of racism here, mostly whites and blacks, among teenage kids, i'm white myself but i find racism to be retarded. about 3 years ago it got really bad for a while when i was in school because some white kid called one of the black kids a "nigger" which from that ensued fights, i was present at both of the big fights, i was friends with the black kids at the time and still am but at one of the fights it was about 5 white kids and 5 black kids fighting and the black kids beat the shit out of them, about 2 weeks after that another white kid once again calling the blacks "nigger" got jumped by about 7 black kids and they nearly killed him, i think they actually were until someone yelled that they had called the cops at the fight.

      as far as i'm concerned racism is stupid, but another thing i find stupid is getting offended by a word such as "nigger", i know it's a derogatory term but from the fact that blacks call each other openly "nigger" or "nigga" or "nukka" or whatever other form of it you can think of and then get offended when someone of another race says it (most of the time because some don't really care) is also stupid.

      just to state another fact here, my school, which consisted of probably.. 1,000 students, i'd say there was about.. 20 blacks, 1 asian (korean to be exact), and 2 mexicans, that leaves appox. 977 white kids. i will admit around here if you're friends with the blacks, like i am, they don't really care if you call them "nigger" or some form of it because they know if you're being racist or not, as for the korean he didn't care if his friends called him "chink" or some other form of it, the mexicans i don't really know about because i never saw anyone call them a derogatory term but i'm sure they wouldn't really care either.

    5. #30
      Omnipotent Being. nitsuJ's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Dreamworld View Post
      They were not treated better than native americans.. they were killed with disease, etc. Not all black people think that way..
      well considering the white people came to america and forced the native americans to move and they were massacred and they were killed with diseases and enslaved and treated like shit and were forced to march across the nation in which many more died from being beaten, killed, and from diseases and starvation, etc. etc. i suppose you're right.

      as in comparison to the now african americans who were sold by their own people or forced to get on a boat, but not the entire african population, and came to america and were beaten and forced to work, and probably even died from dieseases.

      let's compare-

      native americans:
      enslaved
      killed by diseases
      killed by beating
      killed by starvation
      killed by massacres
      killed through wars
      all forced to leave their homelands and have no freedom
      all forced to march across the entire nation

      african americans:
      enslaved
      killed by diseases (possibly)
      killed by beatings
      killed by starvation (possibly)
      killed through wars (if they participated in the civil war)
      some forced to leave africa


      i still think native americans had it worse.

    6. #31
      Legend Jeff777's Avatar
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      Jesus Christ you guys are some dumb fucks. One idiotic asshole of a troll makes ONE comment not specifiying his race and all of a sudden it's like a verbiage of targeted remarks toward the black race. Before that guy made that comment about whites...the thread was going just fine. Stop feeding the god damn trolls. You know who you are.

      Quote Originally Posted by Seismosaur View Post
      I might be pushed into making a porch monkey comment, but I won't.
      Grow up you little shit.
      Last edited by Jeff777; 08-15-2008 at 04:17 AM.
      Things are not as they seem

    7. #32
      DEATH TO FANATICS! StonedApe's Avatar
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      Native americans defenitly had it worse. THere are still african tribes. Indian tribes have been incorperated into society and now run casinos. I know some people think society is better but both ways of life have advantages and disadvantages. How do we know that society is better when we have not experienced their lives?
      157 is a prime number. The next prime is 163 and the previous prime is 151, which with 157 form a sexy prime triplet. Taking the arithmetic mean of those primes yields 157, thus it is a balanced prime.

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    8. #33
      Omnipotent Being. nitsuJ's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by stonedape View Post
      Native americans defenitly had it worse. THere are still african tribes. Indian tribes have been incorperated into society and now run casinos. I know some people think society is better but both ways of life have advantages and disadvantages. How do we know that society is better when we have not experienced their lives?
      true, i'd say the native american reservations have both pros and cons when compared to non-reservation america.

      both the native americans and africans were treated bad but when it all comes down to it i believe the native americans had it worse.

    9. #34
      used to be Guerilla
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      Quote Originally Posted by nitsuJ View Post
      guerilla, what he meant i think is that most people views the whites as the "only" racist groups in the world. it seems ok for blacks and others to do racial things and most ignore the fact that it's racist in nature, but as soon as a white person does something racial you have to stop the presses and order a hit on the white person.
      Oh okay I see, thanks for explaining it rather then calling me an idiot like seismosaur is so quick to do with everyone

      He really crossed the line with that monkey comment imo.
      I would rather die on my feet then to live on my knees.

    10. #35
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      QFT means quoted for truth.

      Quote Originally Posted by Jeff777 View Post
      Jesus Christ you guys are some dumb fucks. One idiotic asshole of a troll makes ONE comment not specifiying his race and all of a sudden it's like a verbiage of targeted remarks toward the black race. Before that guy made that comment about whites...the thread was going just fine. Stop feeding the god damn trolls. You know who you are.
      Hey now. We're just speaking the truth instead of making racist comments. And we're also talking about the world in general, not only about what was said in this thread.

    11. #36
      Legend Jeff777's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by guerilla View Post
      Oh okay I see, thanks for explaining it rather then calling me an idiot like seismosaur is so quick to do with everyone

      He really crossed the line with that monkey comment imo.
      Well when you have trolling little pre-pubescent shits running around with unchanged diapers...people start pointing fingers, race wars ensue, insults fly...and eventually the fun is utterly ruined for the older, mentally developed, potty trained crowd.

      Quote Originally Posted by Mes Tarrant View Post
      Hey now. We're just speaking the truth instead of making racist comments. And we're also talking about the world in general, not only about what was said in this thread.
      I wouldn't be so quick to toss around the word "truth" in this thread. I've read a few historical inaccuracies so far.
      Last edited by Jeff777; 08-15-2008 at 08:38 AM.
      Things are not as they seem

    12. #37
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      Kill at the white man.

    13. #38
      widdershins modality Achievements:
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      Why don't we assign a point value to each murder, rape, village burnt to the ground, hour forced to work, generation forbidden to read, custom suppressed by force, and institution built on the bones of your ancestors, and deduct points for the complicity of nations that would later be judged "your own people," then we can decide which race co-opted to the cult of industry wins.

      In the event of a tie, thumb war.

      Whether or not it settles the question, the whole thing should prove entertaining to the 2% of humans who actually direct the flow of resources and for whom the conventions of race are so convenient.
      If you have a sense of caring for others, you will manifest a kind of inner strength in spite of your own difficulties and problems. With this strength, your own problems will seem less significant and bothersome to you. By going beyond your own problems and taking care of others, you gain inner strength, self-confidence, courage, and a greater sense of calm.Dalai Lama



    14. #39
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      Quote Originally Posted by guerilla View Post
      What do you mean?


      Like racism against whites? I just don't think current modern whites are responsible in any way for what their ancestors or great great grandfathers did years ago...we shouldn't take the blame. What everyone needs to do is move forward from the past and learn not to repeat the same mistakes such as seperation or segregation. Aren't we the HUMAN RACE? why does everything have to be about seperate races within our human race? lets just call people people, humans.
      Yeah, white racism. Comments towards whites don't seem to have an effect on me at all, but the principle is there regardless. I mean nowadays all you have to do is take offense and its counted as racism (whites don't count). I don't care if i'm called "white boy" or "whiny" but if the exact equal of those terms are applied to another race it suddenly becomes racism.


    15. #40
      Yes we can. harvey123456's Avatar
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      Wow, its so funny to read through threads like these, just to see how deterioration happens.

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      It doesn't last at least as long as the last forums I've been to but it's quite entertaining to see how the debate turns out.

      Yes, there's already a hugh changes in numbers of white people, I'd say.
      And if I had wheels, I'd be a wagon.

    17. #42
      Yes we can. harvey123456's Avatar
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      I read through some of the arguments, and I thought that this speech of truth by Rev. Jeremiah Wright could clear some things up. He really is a nice guy when you get to know him:

      Over the next few days, prominent scholars of the African-American religious tradition from several different disciplines -- theologians, church historians, ethicists, professors of Hebrew bible, homiletics, hermeneutics and historians of religions -- those scholars will join in with sociologists, political analysts, local church pastors and denominational officials to examine the African-American religious experience and its historical, theological and political context. The workshops, the panel discussions and the symposia will go into much more intricate detail about this unknown phenomenon of the black church -- (laughter) -- than I have time to go into in the few moments that we have to share together.

      And I would invite you to spend the next two days getting to know just a little bit about a religious tradition that is as old as and, in some instances, older than this country. And this is a country which houses its religious tradition that we all love and a country that some of us have served. It is a tradition that is in some ways like Ralph Ellison's "The Invisible Man". It has been right here in our midst and on our shores since the 1600s, but it was, has been and, in far too many instances, still is invisible to the dominant culture in terms of its rich history, its incredible legacy and its multiple meanings.

      The black religious experience is a tradition that at one point in American history was actually called "the invisible institution," as it was forced underground by the Black Codes. The Black Codes prohibited the gathering of more than two black people without a white person being present to monitor the conversation, the content and the mood of any discourse between persons of African descent in this country.

      Africans did not stop worshipping because of the Black Codes. Africans did not stop gathering for inspiration and information and for encouragement and for hope in the midst of discouraging and seemingly hopeless circumstances. They just gathered out of the eyesight and the earshot of those who defined them as less than human.

      They became, in other words, invisible in and invisible to the eyes of the dominant culture.

      They gathered to worship in brush arbors -- sometimes called hush arbors -- where the slaveholders, slave patrols and Uncle Toms couldn't hear nobody pray.

      From the 1700s in the North America, with the founding of the first legally recognized independent black congregations, through the end of the Civil War and the passing of the 13th and 14th Amendments to the Constitution of the United States of America, the black religious experience was informed by, enriched by, expanded by, challenged by, shaped by and influenced by the influx of Africans from the other two Americas and the Africans brought into this country from the Caribbean, plus the Africans who were called "fresh blacks" by the slave traders, those Africans who had not been through the seasoning process of the Middle Passage in the Caribbean colonies, those Africans on the sea coast islands off of Georgia and South Carolina, the Gullah -- (changing pronunciation) -- we say in English Gullah; those of us in the black community say Geechee -- those people brought into the black religious experience, a flavor that other seasoned Africans could not bring.

      It is those various streams of the black religious experience which will be addressed in summary form over the next two days, streams which require full courses at the university and graduate- school level and cannot be fully addressed in a two-day symposium, and streams which tragically remain invisible in a dominant culture which knows nothing about those whom Langston Hughes calls the darker brother and sister.

      It is all of those streams that make up this multi-layered and rich tapestry of the black religious experience, and I stand before you to open up this two-day symposium with the hope that this most recent attack on the black church -- this is not an attack on Jeremiah Wright; it is an attack on the black church. (Applause.)

      As the vice president told you, that applause comes from not the working press. (Laughter.)

      The most recent attack on the black church -- it is our hope that this just might mean that the reality of the African-American church will no longer be invisible. Maybe now, as an honest dialogue about race in this country begins, a dialogue called for by Senator Obama and a dialogue to begin in the United Church of Christ among 5,700 congregations in just a few weeks -- maybe now, as that dialogue begins, the religious tradition that has kept hope alive for a people struggling to survive in countless hopeless situations, maybe that religious tradition will be understood, celebrated and even embraced by a nation that seems not to have noticed why 11:00 on Sunday morning has been called the most segregated hour in America. We have known since 1787 that it is the most segregated hour. Maybe now we can begin to understand why -- (audio break).

      And maybe now we can begin to take steps to move the black religious tradition from the status of invisible to the status of invaluable, not just for some black people in this country, but for all the people in this country.

      Maybe this dialogue on race -- an honest dialogue that does not engage in denial or superficial platitudes -- maybe this dialogue on race can move the people of faith in this country from various stages of alienation and marginalization to the exciting possibility of reconciliation. That is my hope as I open up this two-day symposium, and I open it as a pastor and a professor who comes from a long tradition of what I call "the prophetic theology of the black church."

      Now, in the 1960s, the term "liberation theology" began to gain currency with the writings and the teachings of preachers, pastors, priests and professors from Latin America. Their theology was done from the underside. Their viewpoint was not from the top down or from a set of teachings which undergirded imperialism. Their viewpoints, rather, were from the bottom up, the thoughts and understandings of God, the faith, religion and the bible from those whose lives were ground under, mangled and destroyed by the ruling classes or the oppressors. Liberation theology started in and started from a different place. It started from the vantage point of the oppressed.

      In the late 1960s, when Dr. James Cone's powerful books burst onto the scene, the term "black liberation theology" began to be used. I do not in any way disagree with Dr. Cone, nor do I in any way diminish the inimitable and incomparable contribution that he has made and that he continues to make to the field of theology. Jim, incidentally, is a personal friend of mine.

      I call our faith tradition, however, "the prophetic tradition of the black church," because I take its origins back past Jim Cone, past the sermons and songs of Africans in bondage in the transatlantic slave trade. I take it back past the problem of western ideology and notions of white supremacy. I take and trace the theology of the black church back to the prophets in the Hebrew bible and to its last prophet, in my tradition, the one we call Jesus of Nazareth.

      The prophetic tradition of the black church has its roots in Isaiah, the 61st chapter, where God says the prophet is to preach the gospel to the poor and to set at liberty those who are held captive. Liberating the captives also liberates those who are holding them captive. It frees the captive and it frees the captors. It frees the oppressed and it frees the oppressors. The prophetic theology of the black church during the days of chattel slavery was a theology of liberation. It was preached to set free those who were held in bondage, spiritually, psychologically and sometimes physically, and it was practiced to set the slaveholders free from the notion that they could define other human beings or confine a soul set free by the power of the gospel.

      The prophetic theology of the black church during the days of segregation, Jim Crow, lynching and the "separate but equal" fantasy was a theology of liberation.

      It was preached to set African-Americans free from the notion of second-class citizenship, which was the law of the land. And it was practiced to set free misguided and miseducated Americans from the notion that they were actually superior to other Americans based on the color of their skin.

      The prophetic theology of the black church in our day is preached to set African-Americans and all other Americans free from the misconceived notion that different means deficient. Being different does not mean one is deficient. It simply means one is different, like snowflakes, like the diversity that God loves. Black music is different from European and European music. It is not deficient. It is just different. Black worship is different from European and European-American worship. It is not deficient. It is just different. Black preaching is different from European and European- American preaching. It is not deficient. It is just different. It is not bombastic. It is not controversial. It's different. (Laughter, applause.)

      Those of you who can't see on C-SPAN, we had one or two working press clap along with -- (laughter) -- the non-working press. (Laughter.)

      Black learning styles are different from European and European- American learning styles. They are not deficient. They are just different.

      This principle of difference does not mean deficient is at the heart of the prophetic theology of the black church. It is a theology of liberation.

      The prophetic theology of the black church is not only a theology of liberation; it is also a theology of transformation, which is also rooted in Isaiah 61, the text from which Jesus preached in his inaugural message as recorded by Luke. When you read the entire passage from either Isaiah 61 or Luke 4, and do not try to understand the passage or the content of the passage in the context of a sound bite, what you see is God's desire for a radical change in a social order that has gone sour.

      God's desire is for positive, meaningful and permanent change. God does not want one people seeing themselves as superior to other people. God does not want the powerless masses -- the poor, the widows, the marginalized and those underserved by the powerful few -- to stay locked into sick systems which treat some in the society as being more equal than others in that same society. God's desire is for positive change, transformation; real change, not cosmetic change, transformation; radical change or a change that makes a permanent difference, transformation. God's desire is for transformation, changed lives, changed minds, changed laws, changed social orders and changed hearts in a changed world. This principle of transformation is at the heart of the prophetic theology of the black church.

      These two foci of liberation and transformation have been at the very core of the black religious experience from the days of David Walker, Harriet Tubman, Richard Allen, Jarena Lee, Bishop Henry McNeal Turner and Sojourner Truth through the days of Adam Clayton Powell, Ida B. Wells, Dr. Martin Luther King, Rosa Parks, Malcolm X, Barbara Jordan, Cornel West and Fannie Lou Hamer.

      These two foci of liberation and transformation have been at the very core of the United Church of Christ since its predecessor denomination, the Congregational Church of New England came to the moral defense and paid for the legal defense of the Mende people aboard the slave ship Amistad, since the days when the United Church of Christ fought against slavery, played an active role in the Underground Railroad and set up over 500 schools for the Africans who were freed from slavery in 1865. And these two foci remain at the core of the teachings of the United Church of Christ as it has fought against apartheid in South Africa and racism in the United States of America ever since the union which formed the United Church of Christ in 1957.

      These two foci of liberation and transformation have also been at the very core and the congregation of Trinity United Church of Christ since it was founded in 1961, and these foci have been the bedrock of our preaching and practice for the past 36 years.

      Our congregation, as you heard in the introduction, took a stand against apartheid when the government of our country was supporting the racist regime of the Afrikaner government in South Africa. (Applause.) Our congregation stood in solidarity with the peasants in El Salvador and Nicaragua while our government, through Ollie North and the Iran-Contra scandal was supporting the contras who were killing the peasant and the Miskito Indian in those two countries. (Applause.)

      Our congregation sent 35 men and women through accredited seminaries to earn their master of divinity degrees with an additional 40 currently being enrolled in seminary while building two senior citizen housing complexes and running two child-care programs for the poor, the unemployed, the low-income parents on the south side of Chicago for the past 30 years. Our congregation feeds over 5,000 homeless and needy families every year while our government cuts food stamps and spends billions fighting in an unjust war in Iraq. (Cheers, applause.)

      Our congregation has sent dozens of boys and girls to fight in the Vietnam War, the first Gulf War and the present two wars in Afghanistan and Iraq. My goddaughter's unit just arrived in Iraq this week, while those who call me unpatriotic have used their positions of privilege to avoid military service while sending -- (cheers, applause) -- while sending over 4,000 American boys and girls of every race to die over a lie. (Boos, jeers.)

      Our congregation has had an HIV/AIDS ministry for over two decades. Our congregation has awarded over $1 million to graduating high school seniors going into college, and an additional one-half million dollars to the United Negro College Fund and the six HBCUs related to the United Church of Christ while advocating for health care for the uninsured, workers' rights for those forbidden to form unions and fighting the unjust sentencing system which has sent black men and women to prison for longer terms for possession of crack cocaine than white men and women have to serve for the possession of powder cocaine.

      Our congregation has had a prison ministry for 30 years, a drug and alcohol recovery ministry for 20 years, a full-service program for senior citizens and 22 different ministries for the youth of our church from preschool through high school all proceeding from the starting point of liberation and transformation, a prophetic theology which presumes God's desire for changed minds, changed laws, changed social orders, changed lives, changed hearts in a changed world.

      AUDIENCE MEMBER: Yeah!

      REV. WRIGHT: The prophetic theology of the black church is a theology of liberation. It is a theology of transformation.

      And it is ultimately a theology of reconciliation. The Apostle Paul said, "Be ye reconciled one to another, even as God was in Christ reconciling the world to God's self."

      God does not desire for us, as children of God, to be at war with each other, to see each other as superior or inferior, to hate each other, abuse each other, misuse each other, define each other or put each other down.

      AUDIENCE MEMBER: Yes.

      REV. WRIGHT: God wants us reconciled one to another, and that third principle in the prophetic theology of the black church is also and has always been at the heart of the black church experience in North America. When Richard Allen and Absalom Jones were dragged out of St. George's Methodist Episcopal Church in Philadelphia during the same year, 1787, when the Constitution was framed in Philadelphia, for daring to kneel at their altar next to white worshipers, they founded the Free African Society, and they welcomed white members into their congregation to show that reconciliation was the goal, not retaliation.

      Absalom Jones became the rector of the St. Thomas Anglican Church in 1791, and St. Thomas welcomed white Anglicans in the spirit of reconciliation.

      Richard Allen became the founding pastor of the Bethel African Methodist Episcopal Church. And the motto of the AME Church has always been "God our Father, man our brother, and Christ our Redeemer" -- the word "man" included men and women of all races back in 1787 and 1792 -- in the spirit of reconciliation.

      The black church's role in the fight for equality and justice from the 1700s up until 2008 has always had as its core the non- negotiable doctrine of reconciliation, children of God repenting for past sins against each other. Jim Wallis says America's racist -- sin of racism has never even been confessed, much less repented for. Repenting for past sins against each other and being reconciled to one another -- Jim Wallis is white, by the way -- (laughter) -- being reconciled to one another because of the love of God, who made all of us in God's image.

      Reconciliation, the years have taught me, is where the hardest work is found for those of us in the Christian faith, however, because it means some critical thinking and some reexamination of faulty assumptions.

      AUDIENCE MEMBER: That's right.

      REV. WRIGHT: When using the paradigm of Dr. William Augustus Jones, Dr. Jones, in his book "God in the Ghetto," argues quite accurately that one's theology, how I see God, determines one's anthropology, how I see humans, and one's anthropology then determines one's sociology, how I order my society.

      Now the implications from the outset are obvious.

      If I see God as male; if I see God as white male; if I see God as superior, as God over us and not Immanuel, which means God with us; if I see God as mean, vengeful, authoritarian, sexist or misogynist, then I see humans through that lens.

      My theological lens shapes my anthropological lens. And as a result, white males are superior; all others are inferior. And I order my society where I can worship God on Sunday morning, wearing a black clergy robe, and kill others on Sunday evening, wearing a white Klan robe. (Cheers, applause.)

      I can have laws which favor whites over blacks, in America or South Africa. I can construct a theology of apartheid, in the Afrikaner church, and a theology of white supremacy in the North American or Germanic church.

      The implications from the outset are obvious. But then the complicated work is left to be done, as you dig deeper into the constructs, which tradition, habits and hermeneutics put on your plate.

      To say, I am a Christian, is not enough. Why? Because the Christianity of the slaveholder is not the Christianity of the slave. The God to whom the slaveholders pray, as they ride on the decks of the slave ship, is not the God to whom the enslaved are praying, as they ride beneath the decks on that same slave ship.

      How we are seeing God, our theology, is not the same. And what we both mean when we say, I am a Christian, is not the same thing. The prophetic theology of the black church has always seen and still sees all of God's children as sisters and brothers, equals who need reconciliation, who need to be reconciled as equals, in order for us to walk together into the future which God has prepared for us.

      Reconciliation does not mean that blacks become whites or whites become blacks or Hispanics become Asian or that Asians become Europeans. Reconciliation means we embrace our individual rich histories, all of them. We retain who we are, as persons of different cultures, while acknowledging that those of other cultures are not superior or inferior to us; they are just different from us.

      We root out any teaching of superiority, inferiority, hatred or prejudice. And we recognize for the first time in modern history, in the West, that the other who stands before us with a different color of skin, a different texture of hair, different music, different preaching styles and different dance moves; that other is one of God's children just as we are, no better, no worse, prone to error and in need of forgiveness just as we are.

      Only then will liberation, transformation and reconciliation become realities and cease being ever elusive ideals. Thank you for having me in your midst this morning. (Applause.)

    18. #43
      I LOVE KAOSSILATOR Serkat's Avatar
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      That's just perfect, on average dark-skinned girls aren't as attractive to me. (ZOMG RACIST)

      Also, Seismosaur, races do NOT exist. Race is a social construct that you can use to trace back specific genealogical origins. But people of a certain racial profile don't make up a homogeneous group any more than people of a certain hair color or hand width belong in a group.

      Your country analogy doesn't work because countries are entirely socially constructed without any basis in geography, whereas racism is supposed to be based in genetics, looks and other properties. Also, members of a country necessarily share specific properties on an individual level, because they are all part of the same political, economic and social system and usually have a basic common moral ground. A black man can become a hero and philanthropist or an asshole, partially depending on where he grows up and lives. Race doesn't have anything to do with it.

      Still, in either case, I would suggest that everybody just fuck the tribe and be an individual.

      Saying that humans are divided into races is like saying that micro-evolution is possible, but macro-evolution isn't. You're drawing arbitrary lines and saying that these are justified by some quality you claim to perceive as inherent in what you are judging. Which is why reparation money is total bullshit.

      Also, redheads getting extinct is mostly an urban legend. There won't be any substantial loss of redheads within our generation and afterwards.


      Yeah, and dumbass Jeremiah Wright is a pretty good example of saying openly racist things. Damn collectivists. "individual rich histories"? That's fucking bullshit. My history dates back 21 years, not to the goddamn 17th century. And his doesn't either. What an asshole. "black learning styles", that's the stupidest thing ever. Racism isn't about supremacy but collectivism and separation, i.e. any time you use racial adjectives to describe something other than the phenotypical result of genealogical history, evolution. Learning styles and religion are not encoded in genes, fucking no.
      Last edited by Serkat; 08-15-2008 at 10:48 AM.
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N1eP84n-Lvw

      Ich brauche keine Waffe.

      Ich ermittle ausschließlich mit dem Gehirn!

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N1eP84n-Lvw

    19. #44
      used to be Guerilla
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      Hooray for Serkat once again telling it like it is.

      I would rather die on my feet then to live on my knees.

    20. #45
      Emotionally unsatisfied. Sandform's Avatar
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      I haven't read the second page yet BUUUUUT!

      I'm going to let loose some racial slurs!

      Firstly

      Quote Originally Posted by dragonoverlord View Post
      Black People mug white people, robb liquor stores. Gays createed AIDS, Asians preform better then white people at intellectual type stuff so they steal ld jobs from white ppl. Jews control the worlds media and horde money for themselves. Native Americans are living in the Past. Slavic people are shrewed and untrustworthy. Irish are lazy violent drunks. Arabs make things go boom. Chinese people sell fake electronics to people without their knowledge. Mexicans have no respect for fences. Cats think they are all that. Dogs need to grow a spine. Pigoens shit on ppls brandnew cars.

      Ya i think there's a reason for why minorities are treated like shit...
      Secondly.

      Fucking AfriCAN'T get a jobs. Damn alcoholic Irish people Native Americans. The baby munching chinese people need to stay the hell away from our country! That country being AMERICA for those of you who are from some other lesser rat hole country, that being ALL other countries! Fucking foreigners. Don't even get me started on the fucking band with niggers!

    21. #46
      used to be Guerilla
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      Has anyone noticed how we totally lost track of the topic?

      The topic was about whites becoming the minority really, the topic wasn't meant for discussing who is to blame for racism or w/e

      But I guess its too late to turn back the thread now, a couple of Seismo's and other troublemakers are experts at de-railing and insulting.
      I would rather die on my feet then to live on my knees.

    22. #47
      Emotionally unsatisfied. Sandform's Avatar
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      Do you guys really want to know why white people are allowed to have racial slurs thrown at them?

      Because we aren't ashamed of ourselves...and we don't take it as insult if someone says we are "white." I'm not saying that other races don't like themselves, but the fact remains that if they really felt comfortable with themselves they wouldn't be so upset when someone calls them a slur.

      Seriously, is there a white person alive who gets upset at being called any number of white racial slurs? Who here is white and offended by cracker? We don't care, we're white and you pointing it out to us doesn't affect us in even the slightest way.

      I suppose we might get upset at the fact that they can call us cracker but we can't call them a darkie...

      http://images.google.com/imgres?imgu...US272%26sa%3DN


      The fighting whities anyone?

    23. #48
      ex-redhat ClouD's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by guerilla View Post
      Has anyone noticed how we totally lost track of the topic?

      The topic was about whites becoming the minority really, the topic wasn't meant for discussing who is to blame for racism or w/e

      But I guess its too late to turn back the thread now, a couple of Seismo's and other troublemakers are experts at de-railing and insulting.
      Oh God, how I wish I was an eggspurt.
      You merely have to change your point of view slightly, and then that glass will sparkle when it reflects the light.

    24. #49
      Yes we can. harvey123456's Avatar
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      But seriously people, you should't look at the issue in such a perturbed way. Races differ by how Jewish they are: Jewish people are 100% Jewish. White people 75% Jewish and so on e.t.c.

      Its very simple when you think about it.

      There was a stereotype demonstrated in this thread, that "Jewish people control the media/world e.t.c". Are you surprised? They are 100% Jewish and therfore ultimate (Murray, C. 1999 & 2007). Would one raise eyebrows over the dominance of Homosapiens over apes and chimpanzees? I don't think so.

      Understand the world, through the metaphor, people.

      If you are not that Jewish, don't worry its not your fault. But be content with your dead end job and ugly wife. Racial derivations and therefore conflict/racism occur due to difference in the amount of genetic Jewishness one posseses. It is that simple.
      Last edited by harvey123456; 08-15-2008 at 03:46 PM.

    25. #50
      ex-redhat ClouD's Avatar
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      Coffee doesn't take good without cream.

      You merely have to change your point of view slightly, and then that glass will sparkle when it reflects the light.

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