Free will or Fate?

[will.i.am]

So today in my kick ass philosophy class, we talked about free will and fate. Wow, it was great! An hour and a half of nonstop talk. I like the idea of free will but, I can also see fate's side. I know I'm going to die, so that is my fate, but I'd like to have free will on the way. I heard a lot of good arguments today but I can't quite make up my mind. Its hard to prove one side or the other. I mean how could you prove fate? I can prove free will when ever I have to make a choice. For example, if I were to choose between a ball and rock. I can either take the ball or rock, both or not take any of them. I have free will to choose, but has fate already desided my choice? For this example, I'll take the rock. I could have easily done any of the other options, but I chose to pick the rock. Was that due to free will? Has fate desided the future for us? I see fate as a stright line. Fate is every choice you make. You don't know it, but your path is already set. I personally like destiny better. I see destiny also as a line, but this time its curved. I can live with free will along the way to my destiny. But can you have free will and fate (or destiny) together?

[Seeker]

The world is essentially a quantum one, that means at intervals of approximately 10^-47 seconds, there is a chance for change. Go free will! The universe is chaotic, destiny does not exist!

[nerve]

I don't believe in fate, I don't believe in destiny...

[jacobo]

i suggest the movie donnie darko. it asks this question. while the movie definatly panders to the young "teenage" audience its a good movie none-the-less. plus im a teenager and its pandering to me, so why not. personally i dont believe in fate. for the same reasons i dont believe in god. but thats another thread.

[Aphius]

I think i'll take the Neo-Matrix stance on this and say, i dont believe in fate because i dont like the idea that i'm not in control of my life.

[YULAW]

The answer is always right there. you've mentioned it yourself. "Choice" the power to choose is far greater than what we give credit. You can choose your will to do whatever you want. But at the same time you may also choose your fate and destiny. Fate is within our reach on a level thats beyond understandment for our small minds but one thing we have in common is Free Will and its all controlable why does a person who is own thier death bed choose to fight and eventually lives another day? Is there in anyway concieveable that indiviuals time was set for that moment or did that person jump over that line of fate because he/she choosed to? Thats why De ja vue exsist, considering you already know the events that are to happen at that time does that mean you have to follow that path in its direction? If thats the case then it wouldn't be Deja Vue.

[Lucius]

Some things are destiny, you cannot avoid certain things to happen when you choose a certain path, for instance chosing the path will inevitably result in confrontation with the darkside. Also alot of things actualy are destiny in a way. As I belief in reincarnation souls chose a body(the soul if it has liven bad,then it is forced to be punished in a lesser body) when they are reincarnating. And they chose the body that is in the exact situation that your soul needs to learn the most from life and come closer to enlightment. For instance if your soul needs poverty to evolve and learn and so it will be,your are destined to be born in poverty(but not to live forever that life). Also the karma system is also somewhat of a fate one, bad karma brings you bad fate, its also inenvitable in the end. So I do believe some things are destiny indeed..but alot of things are free will aswell..its a mix of both..you cannot avoid certain things, it is destiny

[YULAW]

Well I guess if we had the ability to see into our own futures then it would make fate or free will that much more understanding. But if you have a precognitive dream of an event you still have in your ability to alter what happens once you've experienced that same thing in reality. Either way its always going to lead to the ultimate discussion which is based on Religion. Depending on what your beliefs are determine what your feelings are on this subject.

[Lucius]

Destiny is always enevitable,not matter what religon,for instance.. some people just have a certain talent or potential, this to, is a form of destiny. Free will all you want but you can never possibly achieve what they could if they would use their full potential.

[YULAW]

Talent isn't a form of Destiny. Some people have talent which I would call gifts and never utilize them to their full potential so then where is destiny in this case, the Choice is enevitable they choose not to. You can draw reference to someone having the ability to sing this is a talent right? But this ability can also become learned, polished, and achieveable if someone chooses to go that route. And one thing I do understand is not to limit oneself anything is possible if you put your mind to it You can achieve whatever anyone else achieves if you really want. But using the word never, can't and impossible only limits yourself. Think About It

[Erfeyah]

I agree with lucious that if someone has talent and work hard on it Someone without talent can't reach him. I am musician and i can see that as something obvious. I can say if someone has worked all his life hard for music but dont have talent. You can hear it in his work. Despite that i dont really believe in fate beacause i can see that all the new theorys(Kvanta, Theory of chaos) are very much concerned with random events. If we as humans can think and decide, we have opinion in our fates.

[will.i.am]

Wow, Its nice to see all this feedback! I'm glad I put this on here, I'll try and use some of your guys' points today in class.

[Serinanth]

Ok movie quote =) "A man does what he can untill his destiny is revealed to him. "

[Ev]

I belive in the "fate of choices" - at certain moment of your life you will have to make a choice. that's it. you can choose whatever you want or delay it, but eventually you will have to choose.

[Ginko]

Sure. Whatever. What if some 1 had a time machien. Dos fate and destiny still exsit. If i had a TM, and i saw my self in the future get on the computer and type FUK. I could i just go back to my time and not ever type it.

[YULAW]

Thats funny Shawdow. Originally posted by Shawndow If i had a TM, and i saw my self in the future get on the computer and type FUK. I could i just go back to my time and not ever type it. Remember her?

[nerve]

ack! damn you!

[Serinanth]

What you guys dont have time machines? I got one in my garage, collecting dust. Lets not get into time travel again... that thread gave me a headache =) The spirit enacts will upon the quantum desisions in our brain on the time scale that seeker spoke of, in essense changing the outcomes, meaning we have a choice, which means... Free will. HOWEVER.... Probability comes into play... Some individuals may have a higher probability of foloowing a certian path, so that may be fate in a way, or destiny, whats the differenece between fate and destiny to you guys?

[jacobo]

"I do not believe in a fate that falls on men however they act; but I do believe in a fate that falls on them unless they act." "Our destiny changes with our thought; we shall become what we wish to become, do what we wish to do, when our habitual thought corresponds with our desire." "Destiny is a tyrants authority for crime and a fools excuse for failure." nothing more its all relative. i can make my own choices, but i will have to deal with the "fate" or "destiny" that those choices have created. and when you whip up that time machine of yours ill be first in line to take it for a spin and test that theory, but until then ill stick to my skeptical beliefs.

[Serinanth]

Well said. :bravo:

[Lowercase Society]

LUKE IT IS YOUR DESTINY!!![/u][/b]

[Lowercase Society]

Ok, on a more serious note... I think that free will[not free willy, wow im cheesy] and FATE tie in together to determine our lives= i think that the choices in our lives are like paths, and no one, even God(if you believe in him) knows which path you will take, but some can know the outcomes, so we do have free will, but there is an overall fate that can intervene or determine in some circumstances which path will be taken, or what the outcome of each path will be. So i think that everyone has free will, and no one is 'programmed' to do a certain thing, but i believe fate ties in to make our lives what they are. on a similar note, i write alot of lyrics to either let my emotions out about a certain subject. and a few months before i met the girl that I love now(marina) i wrote a few random verses, and had no idea why i was writing them until i met her...so basically i believe fate wrote them...but my free will caused me to end a relationship that was not flourishing, and start one with Marina. as the tears cascade down your face, they turn to glass and as gravity pulls them, they shatter upon the earth like my heart[/b]

[Lucius]

Like I said before, I believe in karma and I think karma is a form of fate. You always get what you deserve in the end, even if you believe in heaven/hell you more or less say you build your own fate by using free will. Yes both of them defintly come into play. Whatever you believe in whether that is heaven and hell or a karma system, both say you more or less get what you deserve. By chosing certain paths by using your free will you will ultimate forge your own destiny. Fate is like I said, inevitable. You can never escape the consiquenses of your actions, thats is everybodies destiny.

[Lowercase Society]

whatever man, your just jealous that i have a Beautiful girl...HAHA! :yumdumdoodledum: :yumdumdoodledum: :yumdumdoodledum: :yumdumdoodledum: :yumdumdoodledum: as the tears cascade down your face, they turn to glass and as gravity pulls them, they shatter upon the earth like my heart[/b]

[Lucius]

* a huge sweatdrop falls from his head * Well that didnt really make sense.. did it? I dont if you realised so far but Im very much in love myself aswell ^_^ I know it was a joke but..lol, really it didnt make sense ^_^