At last a new EEG based induction device

**drwho** · 04-01-2017 08:13 PM

I've been watching very closely the development of EEG based induction devices and have ordered numerous, only one of which has been developed correctly and ethically imo.

I'm still waiting for my Aurora iwinks and am still undecided whether or not this is another Kickstarter scam. I'm also still waiting for my Dreamcatcher from Luciding in Russia. They have promised me one soon but then they've done that before.

Tibor, the developer of LDreamM hasn't accepted any pre-orders till his development process was completed and even now he's only keeping a small window of two weeks to order, with delivery likely in July.

You can see his development on his Facebook page here: https://www.facebook.com/groups/1493660384280012/
And his website here: LdreamM - Lucid Dream Mate

I'm not affiliated to Tibor and I'm only mentioning this kit because I think Tibor has done a very good job of development and I'm quite excited about what this kit has to offer.

Although he initially wanted to add tAcs, he abandoned the idea (as have many others before him) after he found the side effects not worth its help in induction. He now uses pre-recorded audio files which are triggered after EEG analysis.

I've been involved with LD for over 20 years and have only found Thomas Yuschak's Galantamine etc protocol works for me but I did have my very first LD using Novadreamer, so I'm keen to see how audio induction works....As I'm also trained in neurofeedback it'll be interesting to see how the EEG side of it works...

Anyway, see what you guys think.

**Highlander** · 05-09-2017 03:37 PM

Originally Posted by drwho

I've been watching very closely the development of EEG based induction devices and have ordered numerous, only one of which has been developed correctly and ethically imo.

Which one? Human subjects?

I would say that with the Aurora product then only time will tell. IWinks certainly sold the concept to the faithful initially, but then fell well short (and still do) in the PR department. On top of this their legacy will be based not only on the success or failure of future product reviews, but also on the big delay in bringing the Aurora into the public domain after the hype.

I guess IWinks inherited the latter issue from LaBerge and the continuing N2D2 saga?

However with Luciding then you would seem to be correct with your initial assumptions, regarding their failed promises.

It looks like you have to log into Facebook in order to access the first link given. With the Lucid Dream Mate then I would say a few things based on my brief observations when visiting the actual website link.

You, yourself (Dr Who) the original OP make it quite clear in the last paragraph that the LdreamM is an EEG-type device with AUDIO induction. Tibor himself needs to make this much clearer also. His main home page mentions about his magnetic stimulation which is misleading at worst or an oversight at best where the information on the whole website needs updating in my opinion to reflect this. For example you have to click on another page to discover that the magnetic stimulation is still at the “Experiments will be soon...” stage, (source: LdreamM - Lucid Dream Mate) even though there is a device comparison link on the site showing the price ($280+) as well as a 'patent pending'.

Note there are first hand sources for the tACS experiments shown (U.Voss, et al) but there are no scientific sources quoted based on magnetic stimulation of the brain, even though the following assurance is given, namely; “Magnetic stimulation is a much safer brain stimulation method. It can be used without any negative effects on your health.” (Source: LdreamM - Lucid Dream Mate).

Personally I would want much more information including the technical specs about the EEG front end, etc. so I could make a more informed decision on the LDM 8E before parting with my $360 then adding shipping costs of $35 worldwide.

In concluding I can accept certain wording or terms can be ‘lost in translation’. I think Tibor has done a great job with his extensive experiments and his electronics knowledge and scientific approach. I applaud that and I hope he continues. However I think it might be best that he makes this his main selling point rather than rely on the use of fancy sounding ‘new age’ metaphysical terms and quasi-scientific analogies which may in tern alienate his lay audience or potential buyers interested in lucid dreams only. (See Beyond Dreaming, etc).

I would also ditch any mention of a so-called competitor device which has no proven basis so far. It will have a negative effect (or ‘bad’ Karma). The LucidSnatcher [sic] falls into this category. Even his main competitor, the IWinks Aurora still hangs in the balance?