Thread: Dreaming of lucidity vs. LD

OK, something interesting happened during my last night's dreaming that I'd like to hear your opinions about.

Aside from a lot of regular stuff, one of the dreams also had a weird semi-lucid incident. Or was it full-on lucidity that now just seems semi- because of my bad dream recall? From my DJ:

"Something was happening inside a house (quite darkly lit, a lot of people in old-fashioned suits). I must have seen a dream sign or something, because the next thing I know I "shake" away the dream-like qualities of the dream. I literally jiggle my body and feel the world around me responding to my movements (like large glass fragments realigning?). I successfully gain a clearer control over myself.

This is why I think the dream was more about "dreaming of lucidity" than full on "lucid dreaming": I did a couple of key lucid tricks in a row with effortless ease. First, I began to fly, gliding out the window (or did I just smash myself through it!?) and then after a brief, liberating flight, started to spin around really quickly. The dream imagery certainly changed, but I also lost control of whatever lucidity I might have possessed."

Whatever this means, one thing's for sure: it's good news! The idea of lucidity is starting to burrow its way into my dreams. Oh, one good reason for supposing this wasn't a real lucid: only a very small portion took place in first-person. Aren't most lucid dreams ones were you're seeing things through your own eyes?

It's possible you were just dreaming you were lucid.

That's happened to me several times and it's frankly annoying.

I can tell by the way I remember it afterwards. At the time it seems like a lucid dream, but once I wake up the memory is not as vivid. And as I have mentioned before somewhere; after non-lucid dreams I don't remember the physical sensations like touch against my hand or sound in my ears.

being lucid is simply knowing you are dreaming. i have been lucid and watched myself from the third person. you can be lucid and have no body-image whatsoever.

if you know you're dreaming while still asleep....you're lucid.

Originally posted by kafine
I can tell by the way I remember it afterwards. At the time it seems like a lucid dream, but once I wake up the memory is not as vivid.

That's it exactly. The few "real" lucid dreams that I've had left a much stronger impression. Because they are so rare and exciting, I always have thoughts like "This is really unfolding moment by moment! It feels so exciting!"

But like Wombing pointed out, my experience probably can be described as a lucid one. It was just very, very mild.

Dream perspective (third- or first-person) doesn't have anything to do with lucidity. Some people switch third- and first-person perspective constantly, involuntarily, and it has no bearing on whether or not you're lucid. You can actually, while lucid, switch your own perspective to and from third person, and vice versa, if you have the control to do so.

As far as real/fake lucids: It doesn't matter what you do. It doesn't matter how you control yourself or surroundings, if you consciously know you're dreaming, you're lucid, if not, you aren't. Even if your dream "self" says Whoa I'm Dreaming! And you don't Consciously take this to realize you're dreaming, you're not lucid dreaming. I wouldn't call it a "fake lucid" though, because it is just a non-lucid dream in which you did things you might Do in a lucid dream.

Flying/Powers and all that stuff are just as possible in lucid dreams as they are in non-lucid dreams, so I think it's a little confusing to blur the line between lucid and not lucid, ya know? There are degrees of lucidity, true, but the fact remains that "lucidity" is simply knowing you are dreaming, anything Before that point of realization is simply a non-lucid dream. I think calling it a "Fake Lucid" or "dreaming of lucid dreaming" is just gonna over-complicate things, and make recognizing lucidity all that much harder.

It's definitely a good thing, though, because if you equate things like flying and jumping through windows and other cool shit with lucid dreaming, and they are starting to take place in your dreams more often, they are great dream signs. Lucidity could be right around the corner, so keep trying.

Originally posted by Oneironaut
There are degrees of lucidity, true, but the fact remains that "lucidity" is simply knowing you are dreaming, anything Before that point of realization is simply a non-lucid dream.

Yeah, why bring in unnecessary levels or hierarchies? I mean, if non-lucidity is land and lucidity is water, you should just be happy to be smack in the middle of water. No point bemoaning that you're stuck in a lake when you'd rather be cruising around the ocean. It's all good.

My biggest problem is that attaining lucidity seems like an itch I cannot scratch. I often feel like I'm almost there: the dream worlds are interesting, but not truly immersive (like I'm a step removed) & I'm constantly having thoughts about the events taking place in the dream.

I guess those "thoughts" also relate to the whole "lucidity-themed dreams" idea: think of it in terms of scripted theatre vs. improv. Are my dream thoughts part of the script, or do I ad lib them? And if I do ad lib them, how can I learn to use these thoughts to attain lucidity?

This situation reminds me of an Escher print. Recursion & "level mistakes" and that fun stuff...!