Thread: Scary Lucid Dream With ... Dream Guide?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(littlelisa &#064; Sep 14 2006, 01&#58;14 AM) [snapback]349920[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'>


Certain distinctions need to be recognized. The Reason I often use the Phrase Higher Dream MInd is so that it can be emphasized that in the Spiritual Sense, the Higher Powers are above me. And then there is the matter of emphasizing that my loyalty is to the Higher Dream Mind and my service is to the Higher Dream Mind. It is all for the sake of the Collective -- the Good of All.

But not everybody sees it this way. In the Black Arts one summons Demons. Now it is some Faustian Deal -- the Demon serves one&#39;s purposes, but the Demon is benefitted by being brought back up into the Physical World -- to enjoy once again by proxy. But they can be scary and abusive, selfish and not altogether tactful.

But the Spiritual Entities from above... they have to lower themselves to our level, and they won&#39;t do that merely to fulfil individual selfish wims and desires. One has to be oriented toward a kind of a "All for One and One for All" kind of mentality.

One can not acquire Spiritual Sponsorship until one has first become Spiritual.

And essentially that means one must be for the Collective and not just about one&#39;s self.

Oh, wait, sometimes one can go way beyond even the Collective, but this is the Transcendence into the Universal, or the Center of All Being... what we understand to be Divinity.


Anyway, the term Dream Guide can be terribly non-specific. Is a Dream Guide Angelic and Spiritual or Demonic an Hellish. It is really not specified.

One really needs to think this through for one&#39;s self.

One can call on Angels, but one needs to understand that one must then be One of the Team. With the Demonic one can be guiltlessly self-serving and hedonistic, but to be worthy of Angelic Sponsorship one has to acknowledge to One&#39;s Self and the Greater Universe that One is part of a Greater Unity.

Once you have this straight in your head, you should no longer have any problem petitioning a Sponsoring Angel.

Originally Posted by Leo

Certain distinctions need to be recognized. The Reason I often use the Phrase Higher Dream MInd is so that it can be emphasized that in the Spiritual Sense, the Higher Powers are above me. And then there is the matter of emphasizing that my loyalty is to the Higher Dream Mind and my service is to the Higher Dream Mind. It is all for the sake of the Collective -- the Good of All.

But not everybody sees it this way. In the Black Arts one summons Demons. Now it is some Faustian Deal -- the Demon serves one&#39;s purposes, but the Demon is benefitted by being brought back up into the Physical World -- to enjoy once again by proxy. But they can be scary and abusive, selfish and not altogether tactful.

But the Spiritual Entities from above... they have to lower themselves to our level, and they won&#39;t do that merely to fulfil individual selfish wims and desires. One has to be oriented toward a kind of a "All for One and One for All" kind of mentality.

One can not acquire Spiritual Sponsorship until one has first become Spiritual.

And essentially that means one must be for the Collective and not just about one&#39;s self.

Oh, wait, sometimes one can go way beyond even the Collective, but this is the Transcendence into the Universal, or the Center of All Being... what we understand to be Divinity.
Anyway, the term Dream Guide can be terribly non-specific. Is a Dream Guide Angelic and Spiritual or Demonic an Hellish. It is really not specified.

One really needs to think this through for one&#39;s self.

One can call on Angels, but one needs to understand that one must then be One of the Team. With the Demonic one can be guiltlessly self-serving and hedonistic, but to be worthy of Angelic Sponsorship one has to acknowledge to One&#39;s Self and the Greater Universe that One is part of a Greater Unity.

Once you have this straight in your head, you should no longer have any problem petitioning a Sponsoring Angel.
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I am very confused now. I thought a Dream Guide was just a person in your dream that can guide you through lucid dreaming? But it&#39;s really like... a spirit from the spiritual world? I&#39;m sorry but I don&#39;t think I understand what you&#39;re trying to say, because I&#39;m just a naive 15 year old. If summoning your Dream Guide is really that meaningful and complicating, I don&#39;t think I ever want to try it again. I only wanted to meet my Dream Guide because I thought it would be fun and interesting.

i always thought your dream guide was something like your subconseis (or however u spell it)

^ That&#39;s what I thought too...

Leo has a very spiritual view of dreaming which, although as valid as any other view of it, does confuse people, myself included.

I have always thought of dream guides as an extension of your own mind, particularly the higher mind involved with thinking and reasoning - what Freud called the Ego. Others think of it as an entity from another plane, be it a dream world, spirit world, or something else. Either way, the dream guide is a character in your dreams who essentially provides guidance and companionship - a dream friend, if you will. They can show you how to do things, help you with dreaming, provide support, and so on. I would guess that the reason your dream turned sour when you tried to summon your dream guide is because you didn&#39;t know what to expect, and the moment things got strange, you expected the worst, and expectations have a way of manifesting themselves in dreams. Next time you try, remember that dream guides are friendly, helpful people. If you wanted, I suppose it might be possible to find a normal dream character you liked, and designate them as your dreamguide.

Some people, including me, see the subconscious - Freud&#39;s Id - as separate from the dream guide. The subconscious is often concerned with more basic things, more like instinct that thought, but can indeed be manifested as a dream entity. If you want your mind to cooperate with you lucid dreaming attempts, the subconscious is who you should talk to, because it has at least as much control of that as your conscious mind.

Originally Posted by littlelisa

I am very confused now. I thought a Dream Guide was just a person in your dream that can guide you through lucid dreaming? But it&#39;s really like... a spirit from the spiritual world? I&#39;m sorry but I don&#39;t think I understand what you&#39;re trying to say, because I&#39;m just a naive 15 year old. If summoning your Dream Guide is really that meaningful and complicating, I don&#39;t think I ever want to try it again. I only wanted to meet my Dream Guide because I thought it would be fun and interesting.
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As you say, you are only 15. You thought it would be fun, but it turned out that you were summoning an Entity from the Spirit World that had a mind and agenda of its own. It was a bit more than you expected.

But you will certainly come back later when you have had some time to reflect and plan.

You remind me of when I was 4 years old and took my first foray from the &#39;Field&#39; behind my house to the &#39;Woods&#39; a bit further back. I got caught in a few thorn bushes and was a bit lacerated up by the time I could extricate myself -- not a good experience at all for a little 4 year old who only wanted to play. I remember coming back to my mother and telling her "I will never go to the Woods again". But she told me that the next time I will know not to walk into the sticker bushes and it won&#39;t be nearly so horrible.

Mom was right.

And you will someday go back yourself.

Theres no such thing as a Spirit in your dream. What you are &#39;summoning&#39; is a visual representation of your sub-counscious mind that allows verbal communication between you and your subconscious. This allows you to ask yourself questions and recieve answers in ways you never thought possible before.

Don&#39;t think that your dream guide is a spirit or ghost invading your dream, thats just going to freak you out and cause you to lose touch with yourself, and give up learning valuable information about yourself.

Originally Posted by freefire

i always thought your dream guide was something like your subconseis (or however u spell it)
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Materialistic Atheists who reject all Human and Spiritual Values insist that dreams are sourced entirely out of the physical brain. A corollary to this reductionism is that there cannot possibly be any psychic powers, clairvoyance, telepathy. The Materialist Doctrine is that each human being is completely isolated within his own senses – and this means that they suppose that nobody can ever know anything that they have not at one time perceived or heard described.

Of course, the actual experience of people is that dreams are always surprising them with novel experiences that have absolutely no bearing or reference to any previous memories. So the materialists conjure up the mysterious Subconscious Mind. Of course, it is just an Intellectual Model for their thinking – a way they express their conjectural concept – the way they guess these things happen. No one has ever proved a thing, but after a Century of talking continuously about the Subconscious Mind, they have taught the World to assume that there actually IS a Subconscious Mind.

I would rather suggest the Model of a Collective Consciousness. Carl Jung was a great advocate for the Collective. It would explain why All people Dream similar Dreams, with common archetypes and common Themes.

Another argument against the Materialistic View of an Isolated Personal Subconscious Mind, is that there are Waves of very similar Psychotic Delusions that occur simultaneously all around the World, crossing language and cultural lines. Napoleanic Delusions. Christ and Messianic Delusions. UFO Delusions. We seem to have Delusions that take root in the Collective Consciousness and then spring up like Weeds in people all over the World.

But there are simpler proofs for the Collective Consciousness and for Psychic Powers. This proof is that people can sense when they are being watched. Every Pretty Girl knows when she is being watched. I have learned as a World Traveler that I never need to call out in a crowd or at an Airport… I only need to stare at a person whose attention I am after, and they will automatically turn and notice me. When I was a young man and off to War, the stupid sergeants who would get their platoons killed would rotate their men into the Point Position – each man taking his turn. But a bad Point Man will get everybody slaughtered. The knowledgeable Sergeants instead would appoint only Natural Point Men to be Point Men, and this is how they would do it. In the middle of the night he would sneak up on his Platoon, and watch them from off in the bushes. The men who would become uncomfortable and who would look around and stare in his direction, into the dark, THESE men were natural Point Men. Of course, the very Best Point Men would have a certainty that they were being spied on, and the Sergeant would have to reveal himself before being shot. But then Sarg would have his New Point Man, and the Platoon would then be practically Ambush proof. The Point Man would KNOW when any enemy anywhere was watching their approach – he would feel it, and signal everyone to stop where they’re at. They had a Sixth Sense. But what is really important here, in this context, is that this Sixth Sense is really very common. It is totally absent in only very few people.

Indeed, nowadays, in Areas prone to high rates of Crime, people are being instructed to pay attention to their intuition and feelings. They are being told that if they don’t feel good about going out into a street alone, or if they are suspicious of a group of strangers on the street corner, to respect their ‘feelings’ and exercise the appropriate caution. What is this but an actual endorsement of Psychic Powers.

So, yes, while still using the Materialist Language of Subconscious Mind, nobody really believes it anymore and we should all really start calling it the Collective Consciousness.

Ah leo, leo, leo. Far too much information that just confuses the person who you&#39;re trying to help out, unintentionally of course. Try and make the mood of the answer in sync with the mood of the question.

Leo, go for simple and to the point, like my response. Don&#39;t make it long and drawn out.

He is just trying to explain it the best he can. If you don&#39;t want to read all of it then just read portions that catch your eye.

^Agreed.

I, for one.. enjoy reading Leo Volont&#39;s responses.

Not me. Im usually into long explinations of how things work, but his just aren&#39;t enough to keep me interested. I read the first few lines and my eyes just drift and scroll down to the next post.

Originally Posted by Glorfindel_III

Ah leo, leo, leo. Far too much information that just confuses the person who you&#39;re trying to help out, unintentionally of course. Try and make the mood of the answer in sync with the mood of the question.
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Excuse me, but Leo is not the one asking for advice... and certainly not advice on how to be illiterate and stupid.

Originally Posted by Leo

Excuse me, but Leo is not the one asking for advice... and certainly not advice on how to be illiterate and stupid.
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Hahah your right dude, you know how to be stupid all on your own.... and who really refers to themselves in the 3rd person anymore?

Originally Posted by Rage

Leo, go for simple and to the point, like my response. Don&#39;t make it long and drawn out.
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Excuese me, again, but the Page already has a great deal of illiteracy and stupidity. I am trying to contribute something slightly different.

We already have you, and others willing to live by the tenets of your advice. For your simplicity, inexperience and blind guessing, allow me to counterbalance with some detail, empiricism and certain Knowledge.

And if it hurts your little brains, then place don&#39;t read it. You have my permission to mind your own business.

Originally Posted by Rage

^Agreed.

I, for one.. enjoy reading Leo Volont&#39;s responses.
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Just as a figured.

A monkey.

No attention span at all.

All your trying to contribute is a bunch of crap. You see, I too could make my posts sound intelligable with long drawn out responses, but its not about who can write the most, its about offering advice that they can use. No one wants to read 25 lines of crap when 5 lines will suffice.

Originally Posted by Rage

All your trying to contribute is a bunch of crap. You see, I too could make my posts sound intelligable with long drawn out responses, but its not about who can write the most, its about offering advice that they can use. No one wants to read 25 lines of crap when 5 lines will suffice.
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Just because you don&#39;t consider it good advice doesn&#39;t mean other people don&#39;t, I think this topic has been drawn off topic with the pointless complaining about Leo too much so can you not just ignore his posts if you don&#39;t want to read them?

Originally Posted by Leo

Just as a figured.

A monkey.

No attention span at all.
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What are you talking about?

Okay, I agree that this discussion has gone off topic.

But... I&#39;m still confused, is a Dream Guide just a person made up from your subconscious or really something from a "different world"? Or is it all a matter of opinion? Whatever it was, I still don&#39;t get why it was such a bad experience for me. I have to say though that I agree with Scruffy, and that I did assume the worst was going to happen. Maybe that is why it was so scary for me.

And Leo, what are you talking about when you said that people have a 6th sense? o_O I don&#39;t get how that has to do with Dream Guides.

Originally Posted by Leo

Excuse me, but Leo is not the one asking for advice... and certainly not advice on how to be illiterate and stupid.
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*taken from the &#39;Spelling and Grammar Tips&#39; section*

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Capitalization
The rules of Capitalization are quite simple, really. You always capitalize proper nouns, such as people&#39;s names -- e.g. Sue, Mark, Jane -- and places -- e.g. Tokyo, America, England. You capitalize the first letter of words at the beginning of a sentence, and the word "I" is always made a capital letter no matter where you put it. Other words that are not proper nouns should not be capitalized.

Bad Examples
hello im new. my name is sue and im from england.
I&#39;m new to this lucid dreaming Stuff, can You show me How to attain lucidity, Please?

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It&#39;s not that hard&#33;





And back on topic:

Yes, I expect that the reason your guide was scary was that you believed he would be. Like many aspects of LDing, what you expect to happen, will&#33;

I will leave people to debate the spirituality side of dream guides, but if (or when) I try to summon a guide, I would expect this to be part of my subconcious that I am unaware of in waking life. If you would like to try again, you could try thinking of your guide like this, perhaps this will stop the guide from being scary...worth a try. Best of luck,

Glor