to who? What diffines "real"?
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to who? What diffines "real"?
That such a stupid question i not going to anwser it. If you cant tell the difference between real and imaginary i feel sorry for you. Well you do believe in godQuote:
to who? What diffines "real"?[/b]
once more Becoming has evaded the question
Well just trying to get more post.Quote:
once more Becoming has evaded the question[/b]
Well real is a social thing and socially dreaming is not reality so i guess dreaming or dream content is not real so DC our not meaning that we have the right to kill them.
Hush, you're destroying the delicate web of lies I've built up around myself. I need my web of lies! :wink:Quote:
Originally Posted by becomingagodo
And I would have to say reality is in every way subjective. Most people would argue that dreams are not real. But we can learn things in dreams we can apply to the waking world. The line gets hazy here. So people could also say that dream characters are not real. But where do we draw the line here? I'm definitely not denying that dream characters are figments of our imaginations. That's what they are. But does that make them less real? To me it does not.
Dreaming is something I "took up" because there are no rules, no right and wrong, no morals. I can do pretty much anything in my dream and not feel bad about it. No one gets hurt.
/rant on
(the following is a late night at work rant)
Ok so is killing a dream char ok.
We need to look into morality and what makes the dream wolrd different or akin from this one. Before I say anything else, this is just how I see things, I know my take on the dream world is different than most. But perhaps another perspective can help you to find your own answer. What I hope to do is to make you ask questions and to question yourself, along with the world around you. Read on knowing through my eyes the dream world is as real as this one, though it is based not based on the physical like this reality is, etherial in nature a thought holds much more power there. So that is my bias.
I love seeing how other view the dreaming. But again and again everyone saying how they love to needlessly kill people in their dreams with no feeling of remorse or the lack of compassion that prompted the act. I duno, it just dosent seem right to me, it seems barbaric? Primitive?
I grew up with video games so it isint that and its nothing like killing a video game character... your sitting in your living room with a controller in your hands in controll of a character that is not you. In a dream you are YOU!... *coughs okwellmostofthetime* You dont feel the sword in your hand, or see the light go out in their eyes in a video game..
I think all this is going to accomplish is me asking more questions.. *sigh*
So... reality is based on the social interaction of others? 0_o
What happens when I go on a hike, deep in the woods and there is no one to observe my actions, by this I mean sentient beings that can confirm or deny my actions and later recount what happened.
So when I step off the path in the deep woods and walk, does my reality then become a dream? Sure I could bring my camera and bring back pictures to the people here. But I could do the same in the dream world. Just as I cannot bring proof of my actions in this world to the dreaming nor can I bring proof of the dreaming to this world.
The only thing that carries back in forth are our memories.
What is a past memory with no physical proof of its existance? A dream?
If my memories of dreams long past and experiences here were shown to some one else, would they be able to determine which was from this world and which was from the dreaming? Ok ok .. so the ones im flying around obviously yes, but say the more mundane dreams where nothing extraordinary occurs.
Morals.
It was said that we learn morals in this world. While I do agree I must also say that in my experience I have learned much of morality from both realities. I grew up with lucid dreams. I didnt know what they were untill I was much older, as a child it was confusing to grow up in both realities. My dream is akin to this world in that there are concequences. Its just how I experience the dream world, probably because it developed into what it is now over the years and through growing up dealing with two realities.
I wish I could have that godlike controll that some of you get, but it just does not work like that for me, the more lucid I become, the more clarity I have the harder it is to bend the rules. Everything takes effort in my dreams, telekinesis, and all that goes with the control of matter, and even flight. But I dont mind exerting the effort.
I feel more free as I fly as a dragon, the air rushing over my wings and lift they generate, the warmth of the sun on my back, the fridged cold air in my lungs and the pull of gravity on me as a whole. Doing the superman? I duno.. its lacking.. in that I dont feel gravitys tug and its effortless...
I guess having some rules to bend in my opinion makes one feel more free than having no rules at all.
Of Rage and Tranquility
Even tranquility cannot save you from some things. There are things out there that wont care how calm and how at peace you are. However... with tranquility comes clarity and with clarity comes focus of mind. We all know how powerful that is in a world that is more etherial. But even with that some things will hurt you regardless of how much control you have, things that wont care if you tell them its a dream, they will just nod smile and use that fact that none of us have total control over our minds and will leap on the smallest shadow of a doubt to your abilities. Unfortunatly im one of those lucky bastards (insert sarcasm) that feels pain in the dreaming. We all know what pain can do to ones focus ;) Sometimes standing your ground will get you in a world of hurt, it all depends on the situation and the complexity of the being of thing you face. Sometimes rage wont help either, when you are out classed charging into a hopeless battle might just have you waking up here feeling like crap, or it might leave you in one of those dreams you cannot wake up from =/.
Even if we met face to face you cannot prove to me you exist. A dream character can do everything you can do. Yeah even killing me, I get shot in the head or pushed off a building and I die in the dream world I wake up. Whats to say I will not wake up if you do the same to me here. None of us really know for FACT what is beyond death, not the scientists, not the religions....Hrrmmm mebby we should ask the atheists? Nahh I doubt they know for fact either. No one has come back from complete brain death and told us what happens.
The arrogant scientists say that if somethings real then we can measure and prove it.
While right now we can probe into the brain and see which areas are active and such there is still no way to prove that the voice in your head exists...OR how it is you are able to hear sound when there is none. Funny thing is, your repeating everything I say in your head to understand all this, you do it when some one speaks to you too.
But but... I wake up here every day! How can this not be real.
Try waking up in the dream world in the same place a couple of times, or wake up only to find that you can wake up again.. >_< I hate those nested dreams heeh.
I suppose you can call this the real deal because you spend so much time here so thats cool with me.
For me your all just dream characters in a really long and mundane dream where my spirit is only able to interact with this physical world via the amplification that a brain provides.
Besides my father taught me to treat others with respect untill the prove to you otherwise that you shouldent. After that... @#$% em. (not litrally.. get your mind out of the gutter.)
No, killing for no reason is wrong here or in the dream world.
What if one of the people you kill turns out was your spirit guide or whatever you want to call those beneficial dream characters that seem to know way to much and have eyes too intelligent.
I guess I will shut up for now if this was in any way contradictory or confusing or made no sense... welcome to my world. ;)
Dammit...
I guess killing a dream character to some of you is just like rampaging on people lower level than you on a world of warcraft pvp server, that is untill the lvl 60's start camping you HAAH.
And thats how retarded I am. It took a mention of world of warcraft for me to figure out my stance on this topic.
So it comes down to this...
Is killing a dream character right?
Its your choice.
Are you the coward that attacks only those that have no chance of standing up to you? If you are, just remember its your choice to be the coward.
Or do you take on a challenge and stand up to something that is going to fight back, if you are lucid enough... create an opponent you can feel proud to have defeated.
/rant off
Well look at your arrogances. Seriously if you think the voices in your head our real then you need some help.Quote:
The arrogant scientists say that if somethings real then we can measure and prove it.
While right now we can probe into the brain and see which areas are active and such there is still no way to prove that the voice in your head exists...OR how it is you are able to hear sound when there is none. Funny thing is, your repeating everything I say in your head to understand all this, you do it when some one speaks to you too. [/b]
This is really stupid. Well if you havent notice DC dont exsist for me it like arguing you should play games because the AI is really weak.Quote:
So it comes down to this...
Is killing a dream character right?
Its your choice.
Are you the coward that attacks only those that have no chance of standing up to you? If you are, just remember its your choice to be the coward.
Or do you take on a challenge and stand up to something that is going to fight back, if you are lucid enough... create an opponent you can feel proud to have defeated.[/b]
Their a difference between proof and evidence like their tons of evidence for you exsisting. This is stupid anyway dreams are not real and if you can tell the difference then i would give up trying to lucid dream. Their is a clear line between real and imaginary dreams are imaginary.Quote:
Even if we met face to face you cannot prove to me you exist. [/b]
Becoming, state in your own words what "Real" is. Not a dictonery deffinition, or someones quote. just plan and simple: What is real?
Well something that exsist independently of me i.e. you exsist independently of me if i die your still alive but a DC doesnt because if i die the DC dies.Quote:
Becoming, state in your own words what "Real" is. Not a dictonery deffinition, or someones quote. just plan and simple: What is real?[/b]
thats not an answer, but I see what you are saying (though I disagree)
How do you diffine real?
You ask what is real i gave you the anwser not a deffinaition.Quote:
Becoming, state in your own words what "Real" is. Not a dictonery deffinition, or someones quote. just plan and simple: What is real?[/b]
Now you want me to define it again i.e. give a definaition.Quote:
thats not an answer, but I see what you are saying (though I disagree)
How do you diffine real?[/b]
I didnt think it was possible but keeper getting more dumb. Well you define what real because
[quote] Their is tons of evidence for it exsisting and the something exsist independently of me i.e. you exsist independently of me if i die your still alive but a DC doesnt because if i die the DC dies.[quote]
The point is how is god real. anwser that keeper.
P.S. well i just wanted to show keeper double standard like saying he a scientist and rejecting evolution which as i say has a much proof as Einstein theory of general relativity.
... what?
I fear I may be acting rude right now, but what part of "in your own words, how do you define real" did you not get?
How is God real? Because of the overwhelming evidence for His existance as explained in the Bible, and the fact that Evolution has been proven to be false, thus indicating He must exist for life to have both immerged and apear in its many shapes
now, Becoming, tell me what "real" means
See you base your belife on fantasy. See your using selective attention that why i never be able to give you a defination of what is real. Last time i checked no scientific paper on Creationism has never been put into a peer science review so it hasent been disproven. Scientifically fantasy is thisQuote:
what?
I fear I may be acting rude right now, but what part of "in your own words, how do you define real" did you not get?
How is God real? Because of the overwhelming evidence for His existance as explained in the Bible, and the fact that Evolution has been proven to be false, thus indicating He must exist for life to have both immerged and apear in its many shapes
now, Becoming, tell me what "real" means[/b]
See where it say it not material nature it doesnt exsist in nature, well that the opposite things that exsist in nature is real.Quote:
In short, psychology differs from physical sciences in this, that its facts, the facts of consciousness are not of a material nature.[/b]
See i use scientific objective evidence to define what real like laws of physics, big bang e.t.c. you use your own belife the bible intelligent design. It like arguing with a child, well your confrimation biased is really funny.
I would like to point out to everyone that once again Becoming has not answered the question for reasons that he alone knows but we all can suspect
now, Becoming, are you going to answer or continue to side step what I am asking you?
You really want the anwser. Nothing real reality itself is define by the smallest units of quanta which have something called a wavefunction and that collaspses into classical. Unlike intelligent design this view has lots of evidence like double slit test, EPR, quantum erazer test e.t.c.Quote:
I would like to point out to everyone that once again Becoming has not answered the question for reasons that he alone knows but we all can suspect
now, Becoming, are you going to answer or continue to side step what I am asking you?[/b]
now, dose that mean that something you can touch is real, or something you cant is fake?
You cant touch nothing because nothing real.Quote:
now, dose that mean that something you can touch is real, or something you cant is fake?[/b]
so, if you can feel something, is it real?
No it a hallucinationQuote:
so, if you can feel something, is it real?[/b]
so there is no reality?
Well yes
so, what makes killing a normal human and a DC so different?
Because DC are phantasy and normal people are nothing.Quote:
so, what makes killing a normal human and a DC so different?[/b]
and what is the difference between faqntasy and nothing? If anything, isn't fantisy more then nothing?