Thread: God As An Enemy

All this talk about genetic diversity... I remember in my college bio class once we calculated all the possible combinations for genes for sexual reproduction. After you calculate in the fact that each parent can give either 1 of 2 chromosomes they have for however many genes they have (i think like 27,000), that genetic recombination occurs do to "crossing over", do to mutations during mitosis, ect... the possible combinations that a male and female could make in one sexual encounter is more then the entire population of the world (including all the people that have ever lived)... I think it is pretty irrelivant to talk about if two people could have enough genetic matrial to create todays populations... And that doesn't take into account mutations that occur by external inputs (radiation... ect.)


edited after typo was found

They don't swap alleles, they swap chromosomes, making that number significantly lower.

True that, ok sorry typo.. it has been a while since bio 101... you are right.. but at the time we did it correctly...

But because there are only 21 chromosomes (42 different ones between the two) there would only a small number of combinations, certainly not 6 billion. I think you used alelles in which case you would probably be correct, but chromosomes(which are actually exchanged) are a different story.

Originally posted by Belisarius
But because there are only 21 chromosomes (42 different ones between the two) there would only a small number of combinations, certainly not 6 billion. I think you used alelles in which case you would probably be correct, but chromosomes(which are actually exchanged) are a different story.

no we did it correctly. I remember. You have to factor in crossing over, mutations during replication ect. There are many more variables then just chromosome number. These is also a published fact in many text books. I might dig up my bio book and quote it... if i can find the box its in.

Think about it? Do you really have freewill? Take this example: You choose to hit a poolball... but what decides which way it goes? how far it goes? Physics/reality/God? You are not in control of reality but merely a pupet who cannot see his strings. It is like trapping a person in a cage and saying... \"you are free\". the person can do whatever they like in the cage, but are they free?[/b]

Umm, sorry if somebody said this before me, but I really don't feel like reading four pages of hardcore controversials. I kinda stopped after the first page. I think freewill means that we are allowed to do anything we can do, if we want to. I mean, you can't control the way a poolball goes, but you can control what you want to do. LIke when you wanna stab somebody with a pencil, God doesn't stop you from doing it. If you wanna suicide, you suicide. It happens a lot, if you count teenagers dying every day. No free will would be not being able to do anything you want to do, just following orders.

Waking life has such a wonderfull part about free will.
transcript: http://www.prism.gatech.edu/~gte484v/wakin...physicsguy.html

Yume, why are you arguing with yourself and contradicting yourself? I must be missing something here, but you seem to of accidentaly changed the name on this quote:

Originally posted by Yume
Where specifically does it imply it. I never read where it it said the universe was 7000 years old.

To \"bradybaker\" instead of \"Yume\", and then argued with your own quote under the illusion bradybaker said it, by saying:

The last part covers this. [/b]

You're going mad. You are arguing with your own argument and trying to prove yourself wrong and doing it, and as a result the logic here has just disappitated. You must go read up on your stuff.

I don't see why it's even worth bothering with you if you're doing that.

Originally posted by tryagain

Think about it? Do you really have freewill? Take this example: You choose to hit a poolball... but what decides which way it goes? how far it goes? Physics/reality/God? You are not in control of reality but merely a pupet who cannot see his strings. It is like trapping a person in a cage and saying... \"you are free\". the person can do whatever they like in the cage, but are they free?

Umm, sorry if somebody said this before me, but I really don't feel like reading four pages of hardcore controversials. I kinda stopped after the first page. I think freewill means that we are allowed to do anything we can do, if we want to. I mean, you can't control the way a poolball goes, but you can control what you want to do. LIke when you wanna stab somebody with a pencil, God doesn't stop you from doing it. If you wanna suicide, you suicide. It happens a lot, if you count teenagers dying every day. No free will would be not being able to do anything you want to do, just following orders.[/b]

What if I claimed you WERE just following orders, the orders of physics that control every physical thing in our universe. Including the chemicals in your brain that tell you how to act. (I don't nessisarily believe this is so but there are those who do)

Originally posted by Kaniaz+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Kaniaz)</div>

Yume, why are you arguing with yourself and contradicting yourself? I must be missing something here, but you seem to of accidentaly changed the name on this quote:

<!--QuoteBegin-Yume

Where specifically does it imply it. I never read where it it said the universe was 7000 years old.

To \"bradybaker\" instead of \"Yume\", and then argued with your own quote under the illusion bradybaker said it, by saying:

The last part covers this. [/b]

You're going mad. You are arguing with your own argument and trying to prove yourself wrong and doing it, and as a result the logic here has just disappitated. You must go read up on your stuff.

I don't see why it's even worth bothering with you if you're doing that.[/b]

Yume orginally wrote "where specifically does it imply it......" but in later posts in displays that BB wrote it. Then Yume thinking BB had actually said it orginally replied to it?? confusion...

Originally posted by tboothby+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(tboothby)</div>

Originally posted by Kaniaz@
Yume, why are you arguing with yourself and contradicting yourself? I must be missing something here, but you seem to of accidentaly changed the name on this quote:

<!--QuoteBegin-Yume

Where specifically does it imply it. I never read where it it said the universe was 7000 years old.

To \"bradybaker\" instead of \"Yume\", and then argued with your own quote under the illusion bradybaker said it, by saying:

The last part covers this.

You're going mad. You are arguing with your own argument and trying to prove yourself wrong and doing it, and as a result the logic here has just disappitated. You must go read up on your stuff.

I don't see why it's even worth bothering with you if you're doing that.[/b]

Yume orginally wrote \"where specifically does it imply it......\" but in later posts in displays that BB wrote it. Then Yume thinking BB had actually said it orginally replied to it?? confusion...[/b]

Yes, and Kaniaz's confusion comes from the fact that Yume apparently deliberately attributed the "where specifically" quote to bradybaker...

Anyway, to try and stay on topic, given tboothby's excerpt alone -- as my beliefs about 'God' conflict with it in and of itself -- it seems rather not that God is an enemy, but that he is in reality simply an overprotective parent.

I had to go all the way back to the begining to find out what this was about exactly, but when I saw the title of the thread I was intrigued.

I was a born again Christian for 14 years. I went through many stages in that stretch. Now I would say that I am possibly agnositc but certainly not opposed to the possiblity that there might not be a God at all. In fact I basically dont care one way or the other. As far as the existence of evil, I think it could be safely argued from the lack of evidence of the supernatural that no good or evil happens on this earth unless humans undertake it.

And what is good? Freedom is good, safety is good, opportunity is good. Balance freedom, safety, and opportunity and you have really got something going as far as building a stable society. Is evil meant to be malevolent or can it simply be wrongs or injustices? Because there are many systemic injustices in all of the nations of the earth. The rich/poor divide is as old as history and is still denying opportunity to most of the human race. I suppose they could revolt, but that is just part of the same cycle of dysfunction in my opinion.

I worked with a guy one summer as a secutiry guard at the back gate of Menards DC. He knew every damn philosophical work that had ever been written and logic and religion. He had already processed it all and decided what was best by the age of 20. The only problem was you could not have a conversation with him and you sure as hell could not teach him anything. I found it annoying because it reminded me of myself.

Getting older now I am more willing to be found saying only mundane things, because these are the things that prove themselves to every human being. Who is wise but the one who learns early the secret of steel? If God exists He damn sure knows where I live and that I am a man who seeks peace and liberty. After much searching I cannot confirm His existence, but I suspect proof one way or the other could come any day now. Certainly among the crowd I used to hang with if Jesus is'nt back in fifty years they will have to start reinterpreting the Book of Revelation. And that would be pretty much a death blow for evangelical Christianity.

I do like the idea that maybe good and evil is an illusion, that maybe God is somebody we made up because we looked out at the cold dark night and felt afraid. And maybe right and wrong is a story we tell ourselves so that we can all fit into a box we call society. There is some truth in this, but I think there is more truth in this idea that we ought not to hurt one another and that this is a complicated thing, but it is good to do our best. We have the choice to fight to the death or learn to cooperate. More powerful is the one who does not need to fight than the one who does (its open for debate). In my opinion there is alot of damn wisdom in the statement "Do unto others as you would have done unto you."

I mentioned the kid I worked with because it is easy to get caught up in manifold philosophical debates (which can be fun). And yet the sun will rise every morning whether we know why or not, and we will choose again everyday to bask in its light or hide from it.

Regards,

EJ

Originally posted by Rakkantekimusouka
Yes, and Kaniaz's confusion comes from the fact that Yume apparently deliberately attributed the \"where specifically\" quote to bradybaker...

Yeah, apparently. Could of accidentaly thought he said it as he pressed the quote button, tra la la. I find this most amusing.

Anyway, to try and stay on topic, given tboothby's excerpt alone -- as my beliefs about 'God' conflict with it in and of itself -- it seems rather not that God is an enemy, but that he is in reality simply an overprotective parent.[/b]

k?

tryagain wrote:
Quote:
Think about it? Do you really have freewill? Take this example: You choose to hit a poolball... but what decides which way it goes? how far it goes? Physics/reality/God? You are not in control of reality but merely a pupet who cannot see his strings. It is like trapping a person in a cage and saying... \"you are free\". the person can do whatever they like in the cage, but are they free?

Umm, sorry if somebody said this before me, but I really don't feel like reading four pages of hardcore controversials. I kinda stopped after the first page. I think freewill means that we are allowed to do anything we can do, if we want to. I mean, you can't control the way a poolball goes, but you can control what you want to do. LIke when you wanna stab somebody with a pencil, God doesn't stop you from doing it. If you wanna suicide, you suicide. It happens a lot, if you count teenagers dying every day. No free will would be not being able to do anything you want to do, just following orders.


What if I claimed you WERE just following orders, the orders of physics that control every physical thing in our universe. Including the chemicals in your brain that tell you how to act. (I don't nessisarily believe this is so but there are those who do)[/b]

now that's another discussion, about fate: whether you choose what you want to do, or if it's already predetermined that I have to do a certain things. Like if I ate cereal, I might have been fated to eat cereal or I made my own fate by eating the cereal.

Gen. 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

It not only screwed up man but the earth also. You can find the info in the KIng James Bible