Thread: “Humanist Manifesto”

spoon, im not a theist but secular ethics make 0 sense based on the fact they are so subjective and have no objective overhead law. [/b]

I'm not an objectivist either. But subjectivism does not mean that each individual person has to have different ethics/morals. No man is an island, everyone who is a part of a society joins in the inter-subjectivity of that society. Which is why we get different morals/ethics in different cultures. Not wildly different mind you, all cultures are essentially similar and all have the same goal: surviving as a group of individuals and as a society.

whats ethical to one person is not ethical to another....what are you basing secular ethics on exactly you are basing them on wants? needs? come on man. the truth is either you are compassionate or you arent there is no ethical system, theistic or secular.[/b]

I already said what I'm basing ethics/morals on. An innate moral sense (or social consience) is a direct product of our evolution. We have been conditioned to perform actions that agree with the society we live in. This social conditioning gives us the sense of what we ought to do - to aid the survival of ourselves and the survival of the society of which we are a part of.

I find secular ethical systems especially hilarious though based on their inability to account for their own ethics or why i should be ethical. [/b]

You're right, there is no big man up in the sky ready to punish you if you do wrong - but you do right because it will aid your survival. You ought to do what is moral/ethical because it will help you survive.

Awaken:

Let me rephrase: what mechanism does theism provide, besides the threat of hellfire, to provide people with a reason to do right over wrong? Because it looks to me like secularism provides just as much (if not more) of a moral/ethical framework.

Originally posted by spoon

spoon, im not a theist but secular ethics make 0 sense based on the fact they are so subjective and have no objective overhead law.

Awaken:

Let me rephrase: what mechanism does theism provide, besides the threat of hellfire, to provide people with a reason to do right over wrong? Because it looks to me like secularism provides just as much (if not more) of a moral/ethical framework.[/b]

I guess the closest hierarchal structure that would even come close. Is the structure of the 'pack' mentality. There are natural law which are learned behavior through the social interaction within the masses, be they wolves or humans.

Cool, so theism provides exactly the same framework as secularism does for choosing right from wrong. Secularism actually provides more of a solid framework as our choices aren't motivated by the threat of hellfire. Secular morals/ethics provides a framework where you can choose what's right because it's right, not because you might get punished by daddy for it.

And since you're in a question answerin mood:

Originally posted by i
You statement of \"faith is proof for god\" is deceptively simple. What you're really saying is \"my faith is proof for my particular god and is better than the faith of any religious person who doesn't share my belief \". Monotheism implies atheism in all but one god. Why is faith such a strong proof for your particular deity (and probably even your particular interpretation of your deity) but no proof at all for the myriad of other deities? What makes a christian's faith more compelling evidence than a hindu's?

Even in this fallen state of humanity, the animals understand the order of things which is more than I can stay for humanity. It is an un-communicated order. Which is reinforced by power struggles which the pack. Now man himself as reverted to this base animal response to his fellow human. Humanity has become ‘The Beast’ which has been prophesied about in ages pass. If you want to know who the ‘Beast is look in the mirror, you will see one of two images the image of Christ, or the Beast ‘the human animal.’

Since you obviously don't want to answer the question how 'bout another one:

What do you count as proof for your religion?

Originally posted by spoon
Since you obviously don't want to answer the question how 'bout another one:

What do you count as proof for your religion?

Answer what?

*twitch*

i wrote:
You statement of \"faith is proof for god\" is deceptively simple. What you're really saying is \"my faith is proof for my particular god and is better than the faith of any religious person who doesn't share my belief \". Monotheism implies atheism in all but one god. Why is faith such a strong proof for your particular deity (and probably even your particular interpretation of your deity) but no proof at all for the myriad of other deities? What makes a christian's faith more compelling evidence than a hindu's?[/b]

ethics LOL...for my survival? son, i have a mac 10 and a glock 9 mil for my survival. why would i live pathetically like a coward using ethics and ass kissing as a means to survive? you have a funny philosophy.

Originally posted by YourTheManNowDog
ethics LOL...for my survival? son, i have a mac 10 and a glock 9 mil for my survival. why would i live pathetically like a coward using ethics and ass kissing as a means to survive? you have a funny philosophy.

The insults were uncalled for and will be moved to senseless banter. Please keep this discussion clean, as tempting as it is to stir it up.

LOL greatest movie ever to next to office space. i fucking hate rap music though.

Originally posted by YourTheManNowDog
ethics LOL...for my survival? son, i have a mac 10 and a glock 9 mil for my survival. why would i live pathetically like a coward using ethics and ass kissing as a means to survive? you have a funny philosophy.

... and if you want to survive as an individual and as part of a society you wont go around killing people with your big, manly guns. Thats the basis of secular ethics/morality.

You have guns for your survival? Give me a break. Is that actually how people think? You have a job for your survival, you have guns because they go *bang*.