A Moment Of Clarity

[bradybaker]

I have a Physics midterm tomorrow...well I guess it's today now. And I'm not exactly prepared or looking forward to it. So there I was, trying to fall asleep, completely stressed out about failing miserably...when I started to contemplate the big questions. Where did we come from? Why is there something rather than nothing? etc... I often stumble onto this train of thought when I'm worried about shit. But this time I experienced a moment unlike any other...I was thinking about what happens to 'me' when I die, which of course is nothing...and for a second I actually grasped the concept of nothingness. For a split second I understood what it is to not exist. It was very strange...and impossible to describe..I spent the next 20 mintues trying to experience it again but I couldn't get it. Anyways, it's 5 in the morning...sorry for rambling. Any thoughts?

[Zero1328]

It is impossible to decribe, for it is nothing. How can you describe nothing? It's a good idea to sleep on it, it's quite difficult to think when sleep-deprived.

[Rakkantekimusouka]

Damn...you know, I've had moments like that before too...like when I was staring down one of my SAT II's while shut up alone in a separate room...I can't even begin to describe it either -- of course, you gotta figure if we could describe it, and relate it, then it wouldn't be so unknown, and we wouldn't fear it half as much...

[AirRick101]

I think religious people may try to jump on this to convert you, so watch out! Shows you don't hesitate to philosophize...or you were hesitating so much that you did philosophize. I had something very similar, to just have a brief glance at some unknown feeling, thought, or some other kind of new perception. It definately changes your previous way of seeing the world. But makes me wonder if I should do this when I'm stressed out, rather than try to deal with the superficial and shallow issues at hand. Anyway, thanks for posting.

[dreamtamer007]

Originally posted by AirRick101 I think religious people may try to jump on this to convert you, so watch out! . No your on your own now.

[bradybaker]

Just to clarify, this was in no way a religious experience whatsoever, hahah. Oh and I didn't do very well on the midterm...

[syzygy]

It doesn't matter if you call what you experienced religious or not, it is what it is. If we think of religion in its original meaning (religion = re-ligare = re-link) instead of all the false interpretations that we may associate with it (as there are a lot today), I would consider that "religious" in the sense that you were "re-linked" with...where we come from, where we are going, the basis of manifestation...nothingness. But again, it doesn't matter if you call it that or not, it depends on your view of religion and I can understand if someone doesn't want to associate themselves with religion if their view of it has been skewed by history (although it is sad in our modern consciousness that because of our loss of a true sense of religion, many will experience this and have no idea what to do with it). This reminds me of a quote from the Sufi Hazart Inayat Khan: "Once a materialist said to me: 'I do not believe in any spirit or soul or hereafter. I believe in eternal matter.' I said to him: 'Your belief is not very different from mine. Only, that which you call eternal matter, I call spirit. It is a difference in terms. That is not a thing to dispute about, because we both believe in eternity. So long as we meet in eternity, what difference does it make if the one calls it matter and the other calls it spirit? It is one life from beginning to end'." The more you meditate and contemplate on nothingness like you did, the longer you can stay in that state, what a Buddhist would call "Enlightenment" or what a Kabbalist would call "Chakhmah consciousness", for example. It is that level of consciousness where you lose any sense of "you" and experience a connection with what "You" ("We", "It") really are (is). Like you said, this is impossible to describe, it can only be experienced. Now I am in no way trying to "convert" anyone, but only make you aware if you are not already that there is a long history of people trying to explain what this consciousness, this moment, this experience is and how to make others aware of it. Each person depending on tradition, society, experience will speak of it in different terms, but they are all speaking of the same nothingness, eternity, God, or whatever you want to call it, if anything. It is best left unnamed and only experienced.

[Awaken4e1]

It is a shame that there have been men of monumental stature, whom have worked and studied all their lives to improve the condition of man’s understanding of the super-verse around him. Only to have their work trivialized by those who still do not understand to purpose of improving that understanding in the first place. Truly ever learning, but never coming to the knowledge of the Truth… The clarity of nothingness I seem to read of a place exactly like this, its called 'hell,' man what a concept!

[AirRick101]

You sure, nothingness can't be anything other than "hell"? You are starting to annoy me, Dreamtamer. Aw, what's wrong, you gave up, so you want me to do the dirty work for ya? But I'm glad you didn't post anything further, thanks for supporting my point. I think you already realized how hopeless it was after trying too hard. Miderm no good, huh, well at least you can always remember the "nothingness" sensation when you feel overwhelmed, baker.[/quote]

[Awaken4e1]

I would like to express a thought which has been running through my mind for a while. How can it be that those whom so tightly cling to their worship of science, and logic ‘don’t even try to kid yourselves that it is not, because it is ‘worship? Would even grace yourselves in a forum like this, I mean its ‘Philosophy for goodness sake’ you must have a masochistic tenancy. To even admit that you would even consider the underlying precepts of the liberal arts, Theology, Philosophy, being logical and all, I mean these are the subjects you’re professors have warned you about isn’t it. Seeing how the holy grail of science tries to far remove its self from the ‘so called liberal arts.’ So do you have a condition that we need to know about, or what? Please help me with this one.

[Howie]

That is really unique Bradybaker. I know you said it is impossible to explain but could you use our meager language to attempt it. Generalizing. - peaceful -scary? I think our minds are capable of culminating feelings that we have never experianced before. I know i have in some of my lucid dreams. Much like de'javues there are an abundance of our own feeeling mixed with what we have heard, in addition to what we would think (our imagination) something would feel like and hence it comes up with a feeling you actually have not ever experiance. The feeling may not be exact but I would guess our intution to get it close. Also you may have been awake but because of the stress you were under and lack of sleep you may have been able to reach some form a hallucinations.

[dream-scape]

Nothingness can't have a sensation. It can't have a memory. It can't have a feeling or a thought. If it does, then it's certainly not nothing. It might be empty, but that's also certainly not nothing. The more you meditate and contemplate on nothingness like you did, the longer you can stay in that state, what a Buddhist would call \"Enlightenment\"[/b] I don't really think nothingness applies to the Buddhist concept of Nibbana or the Buddhist concept of emptiness, unless by nothingness you actually mean emptiness and not nothingness, then that might be something.

[kimpossible]

Originally posted by bradybaker Oh and I didn't do very well on the midterm... If you'd spent more time praying instead of studying. . .

[Rakkantekimusouka]

Originally posted by kimpossible If you'd spent more time praying instead of studying. . . LMFAO! The day bradybaker legitimately prays to do well on a test is the day I'll become a Engineering Major.

[kimpossible]

you know what they say: "no such thing as an athiest in a foxhole" [or a mid-term]

[Howie]

.

[AirRick101]

A period is something, a period is SOMETHING!!!! (especially for girls)

[Gwendolyn]

Actually, bradybaker, I think I grasp this notion. While having a psychadelic experience, I was laying on my bed with my eyes closed, and after a few moments, my world dissappeared. I didn't feel connected to my body in any way. It was as if I had dozed off, without having done so. I wasn't aware, but I was awake. I just think I 'lost' myself. When I became aware of this, I became frightened, and opened my eyes. I immediatly regretted scaring myself..... But anyway, I think I understand what you mean by being in nothingness....

[bradybaker]

Originally posted by Gwendolyn Actually, bradybaker, I think I grasp this notion. While having a psychadelic experience, I was laying on my bed with my eyes closed, and after a few moments, my world dissappeared. I didn't feel connected to my body in any way. It was as if I had dozed off, without having done so. I wasn't aware, but I was awake. I just think I 'lost' myself. When I became aware of this, I became frightened, and opened my eyes. I immediatly regretted scaring myself..... But anyway, I think I understand what you mean by being in nothingness.... Yeah, I get what you're saying...it wasn't like that for me though. It was just me thinking, and for a split second I understood nothingness, it was't a physical experience in any sense, only a mental one. The train of thought leading up to it involved the decay of conciousness as the body dies and oxygen is cut off from the brain. Then I reached a point where I knew what it was to lack perspective of any kind. (Or at least I think I did...at the very least it was a totally new experience)

[Belisarius]

It's impossible to experience, or remember experiencing nothing, at least the nothing that would be absolute death that you might advocate. The ability to remember it and experience it in the first place indicates that you must have been conscious, thinking, maybe not, but you had to have been conscoius. Maybe it means that consciousness survives death, or more likely just that you had an interesting experience that isn't really indicative of what happens in the afterlife.

[Howie]

Exactly Belisarius. Originally posted by Belisarius Maybe it means that consciousness survives death Think about energy. It can't be difused into nothing can it? So what happens when you die. Lets say consciousness just is. It is not here nor there but just exists. Sure the brain itself has it's functions like every other organ of the body. But nobody can pinpoint what consciousness really is much less where it resides.

[Belisarius]

[quote]Exactly Belisarius. Think about energy. It can't be difused into nothing can it? So what happens when you die. Lets say consciousness just is. It is not here nor there but just exists. Sure the brain itself has it's functions like every other organ of the body. But nobody can pinpoint what consciousness really is much less where it resides. Consciousness is almost by definition impossible to observe, you can look at memory functions in the brain, and so many other functions, but you can never really determine if a person is consious or not, only if they can respond to outside stimuli or if they can remember that time period at all. Maybe at death what we subjectively experience is a blank state of consciousness, streatching on infinitely. Think of it like a tangent function in trigonometry, think of the X axis as actual time and the y axis as subective time, as you get closer to the asymptote you increase your y value to infinity. As you get closer to the point of actual death, your subjective experience of time in relation to actual time slows down to infiinity.

[Howie]

That is a pretty awesome thought on consciousness Belisarius. And thank you. I sat there for ten minutes trying to define anything that could roughly explain what I thought for an explanation for consciousness. Originally posted by Belisarius Think of it like a tangent function in trigonometry But if it exists, why does it reside in us. Or are we being presumtuous by saying that. Maybe conciousness exists in all things, not just sentiant beings. Maybe at death what we subjectively experience is a blank state of consciousness, streatching on infinitely. Think of it like a tangent function in trigonometry, think of the X axis as actual time and the y axis as subective time, as you get closer to the asymptote you increase your y value to infinity. As you get closer to the point of actual death, your subjective experience of time in relation to actual time slows down to infiinity.[/b] Are you suggesting any corraltion with consciousness existing in the confines of light and time? Robert Monroe wrote; "To merley define consciousness in utterly undemanding. But to put it into context allows for ever changing, shifting and elaborate thougth"

[bradybaker]

Consciousness is a product of a number of complex processes running simultaneously. Knock out the power supply and consciousness ceases to be.

[Belisarius]

[quote]That is a pretty awesome thought on consciousness Belisarius. And thank you. I sat there for ten minutes trying to define anything that could roughly explain what I thought for an explanation for consciousness. Are you suggesting any corraltion with consciousness existing in the confines of light and time? Robert Monroe wrote; "To merley define consciousness in utterly undemanding. But to put it into context allows for ever changing, shifting and elaborate thougth" My thought had to do with consciousness as if it were a function of the brain. As the brain begins to die and stop functioning to us it seems like everything fades away(and so we have nothing external to reference time against) and it seems to us as if we remain conscious indefinitely, and in a subjective sense we do. I'm not claiming that consciousness is a physical phenomenon or that this is what happens when we die, it's just an interesting possibility.