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    1. #1
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      Universal Infinity

      Okay I've been thinking about something for a while. This thread is basically an offset from ffx-Dreamz's Betcha' Can't Tell Me This thread. For those of you who may have missed it cross reference the link below.

      http://www.dreamviews.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1853

      This ties into that to a degree. My problem is this. Lets say infinity is a direct relation to the universe as a whole. If that is the case then why the Big Bang Theory exsist. Doesn't that contradict the entire issue of infinity being a part of the universe? I know I know... You all are saying "well considering the search for newborn stars billions of light years away and the creation of new stars and new galaxies then this must be true". But why does it have to be? because our brilliant scientist figured it out utilizing some mathematical formulas thus making certain things valid? But how far does the rabbit hole really go? Is it not that they are human just like all of us? Mistakes happen and nothing in this entire world is full-proof not even our most accurate time keeping methods. So does it mean that time also had a begining as a result of the Big Bang?

      Maybe we need to think outside of ourselves and see whats really the case here. My opinion is infinity is just. This is the way of the universe which none can comprehend because we live by the fact that things seen are created in one way or another. What if the exsistance of the Universe Was always.. Never an actual begining. Now Im not saying that the Big Bang didn't happen but what about looking beyond that. This is where I feel our most brilliant minds failed. Whats before the Big Bang? What may have caused it is not what we think.

      The truth of the matter is, is that the Universe has always exsisted from time indefinate till time indefinate. The Big Bang is just another version of something before the universe as we now know it. This is my just my Opinion. What do you all think?

    2. #2
      Rotaredom Howie's Avatar
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      Some thoeries now say that the universe is speeding up in expansion rather than emploting, thus making scientist question the big bang theory.
      Your mind can go crazy thinking about it all. Just think how little we know about our own brain - and scientist think they know the answers to the universe
      Here is an interesting thought. Since the universe cannot be explained, maybe the universre tried to conjur up somthing to explain itself. Which would be consciousness. All the consciouness in the universe. It seems rather pompous of us to believe we are the only life forms in the universe. There may be other consciousness that are closer to understanting the concept of space & time than we are.

    3. #3
      Ev
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      Just my 2c worth:

      Big bang maybe a part of a natural cycle - creation, life, death, and so on.
      Nobody knows if universe existed and died before... It may be soem kind of a loop...

    4. #4
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      Originally posted by Ev
      Just my 2c worth:

      Big bang maybe a part of a natural cycle - creation, life, death, and so on.
      Nobody knows if universe existed and died before... It may be soem kind of a loop...

      THATS MY POINT EXACTLY EV. I totally believe it is a loop. But a loop of a kind which none can exactly comprehend. Im going to go futher into why this theory more valid than Einstiens theory of relativity which stops at the beginning. I figured something out that extends this theory. But I want to get some additional points of views before I decide to elaborate more on it. Where the Hell is Seri?

    5. #5
      Member Kaniaz's Avatar
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      I'll go to the edge of the universe and see if it's infinite.

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      Loop theory here!

    7. #7
      Member Kaniaz's Avatar
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      My belief:

      Nothing.
      Big bang- that we will never fully understand how it came about from the nothing.
      Stuff.
      Stuff.
      Stuff.
      Stuff.
      (and so on)

    8. #8
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      See the problem is you can not make something out of nothing. Before the big bag there had to be something there to create it, and something had to be there before that to create that. If you go far enough back there at no point could be "nothing" So you could say its infinite. Same goes for the future. Can't just destory matter and so from now on there will always be "something".

      I think the big bang tries to expain things the best we can. If its truely infinite then its totaly pointless to try and explain the start of time, and so you must draw a line at some point, which some did with the big bang.

      I don't believe in any loop, that would basicly say we are going in some huge circle, which I think is just a big copout. I personlly say its infinite both ways and at no point loops, and I also think finding out what it is, is impossible. I believe in a god, but I don't think god even knows whats before "everything". After all he had to be created by something as well!

    9. #9
      Rotaredom Howie's Avatar
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      If all things are relative. Just as everything tries to exsist in its own way maybe the universe created this - Here is an interesting thought. Since the universe cannot be explained, maybe the universre tried to conjur up somthing to explain itself. Which would be consciousness. All the consciouness in the universe. It seems rather pompous of us to believe we are the only life forms in the universe. There may be other consciousness that are closer to understanting the concept of space & time than we are.

    10. #10
      Member Kaniaz's Avatar
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      Originally posted by Alric
      See the problem is you can not make something out of nothing.
      How are you so sure? Perhaps we can make something out of nothing, except we just have not discovered yet? Perhaps aliens on some other far flung galaxy have disovered a way to do this? We don't know.

    11. #11
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      I meant you can't make something in the midst is absolute nothingness. If there was aliens who could do it they would need something to do it, even if it was just themself. Because if there is nothing there to make something how is it made?

      Basicly something would have had to just appear out of nothing, and then you still got to ask, where did it come from?

    12. #12
      Member Kaniaz's Avatar
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      Maybe we, the mere human beings that we are, are simply too dumb to understand and grasp how, or why? You have to admit, in the expanse of the universe there is bound of be a race more intelligent than us.

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      I think if you found out what happen your head would explode!

    14. #14
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      Originally posted by Arlic
      I don't believe in any loop, that would basicly say we are going in some huge circle, which I think is just a big copout. I personlly say its infinite both ways and at no point loops, and I also think finding out what it is, is impossible. I believe in a god, but I don't think god even knows whats before \"everything\". After all he had to be created by something as well!
      As far as the loop, maybe if you understood it a little more than you could have a better understanding of this theory. Its the only theory to me that turely makes since. Why? Because it doesn't make any sense at all, thus that makes the loop theory to be more accurate than pretty much anything else. The Loop theory co-exsist with the big bang theory. Its just that Einstiens Theory of Relativity only goes to the mere singularity of the entire process, but it doesn't mean the universe begun there. The most important thing to point out is that the Universe has a past and its Eternal. This Loop theory is mind-boggling. Doesn't mean were going around in circles because as we know from scientific research the Universe is expanding and not contracting. If the Universe would be contracting then yes we are definately going around in circles. The loop theory doesn't support the term of any contracting universe. And just a simple question here because Im curious. What kind of GOD do you believe in that has a begining? Because as far as I recognized GOD doesn't even have a specific begining. GOD has always been, He wasn't even created he was from time indefinate till time indefinate. Don't sweat it none of the most brilliant minds in the world can even phantom that, so don't get a headache trying to figure out how can that be. The same goes for the Universe The Universe has no begining. The big bang is the begining of the universe as we know it.

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      Did you know as a circle increase in size the curvature of the circumference in any give area decreases? So if you have an infinitely long circle it ends up going in a stright line. So I guess you could have a loop which is long enough that it never actually repeats itself because its going in a stright line yet at the same time it also loops around on itself.

    16. #16
      CT
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      Originally posted by Alric
      Did you know as a circle increase in size the curvature of the circumference in any give area decreases? So if you have an infinitely long circle it ends up going in a stright line. So I guess you could have a loop which is long enough that it never actually repeats itself because its going in a stright line yet at the same time it also loops around on itself.
      *dies*

      ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

      Yeah, ok.

      Man I think about this stuff all the time. (Hence the siggy&avatar )
      Impossible to grasp, Infinity. Where does the universe end, or where.

      Or is it all the same. Einstein's got his theories about that.

    17. #17
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      Originally posted by Alric
      Did you know as a circle increase in size the curvature of the circumference in any give area decreases? So if you have an infinitely long circle it ends up going in a stright line. So I guess you could have a loop which is long enough that it never actually repeats itself because its going in a stright line yet at the same time it also loops around on itself.

      Yep I can see that point. But did you know if a circle decreases in size eventually all points will pass through one another and if there is anything in that circumfrence will be considered vise versa. This is your Loop.

      Lets look at it from another perspective shall we? If we idealise a balloon as a perfect sphere, and then deflate it. it will collapse to A single point. If we imagine it continuing to collapse even futher, all the points would pass through one another until the balloon reinflates, with the inside of the sphere now on the outside. Any object in the balloon would be reversed left to right, and that is just what happened ito the universe just before the big bang. Giving the Universe infinity beyond ones imagination.

    18. #18
      Member Belisarius's Avatar
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      The problem with that is that points are imaginary things made up so we could solve math problems. Points don't exist in the real universe because they have no dimensions, nothing physical is a point, or could be condensed to a point because a point has no volume and 0 volume is impossible.

      Every single object in the universe exerts a gravitational force upon every other object so eventually they would all come together right?

      Matter can neither be created nor destroyed so it is impossible for a universe to create itself. There must be an entity outside of the universe and therefore outside of space-time that started it all, because it is outside of space-time it does not have a beginning or an end and scince it is outside the universe it doesn't have to obey the laws if the universe. This entity is infinite, it is God, and heaven is to comprehend it fully.

      I have come to that conclusion from a lot of deep thought mainly on the subject of God, and I have come to the conclusion that there must be a single force out there(sorry Polytheism) that controlls it all and began it, many religions wrongly try to personify this force, it is not a person, it does not think in the way we think, but in an infinite way. It is Omniscient and Omnipotent, I don't think it is Omnipresent, but I may be wrong because it doesn't neccessarily have to obey the laws of our universe and doesn't have to be at a specified point, although the quality of being outside of this requirement may be best described as Omnipresence. I'm rambling, but end point:

      There is a force outside of the Universe.

    19. #19
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      Theres alot of thinking being done here...nice work guys

      I have always been fasinated with theories concering the Universe, but I'm yet to come up with a decent one of my own, and I've had many discussions with friends and relatives about it. Anywho, I just wanted to point out that I've heard, and read (although I can't remember where) that it is impossible for the Human Mind to percieve Infinite. Is this true? I think it could very well be true, what do you guys think?

      -Luke
      Of all the things I've lost, I miss my mind the most
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