Thread: The Law Of Attraction

Originally Posted by SolSkye

To anyone skeptical of anything: If one actually starts to gain inner understanding, you begin to doubt everything, not just the common or uncommon theories being presented. It's called the "doubt sensation". Experience has an effect upon the attention. Spiritual action is action that produces the "doubt sensation." The "doubt sensation" causes the attention to retrace the source of experience. Nothing is observed without the observer simultaneously being observed. Normally the preponderance of attention is on "outside" events. As the preponderance of attention shifts inward, a threshold is approached. On the "other side" of that threshold is the realization of Being. Being knows itself. Crossing that threshold requires breaking the fixation of attention on experience. Whatever dislodges or disrupts and leads to the dissolution of the fixation of the attention on external experience can be said to be spiritual practice.

Nisargadatta says: "My Guru too taught me to doubt – everything and absolutely. He said: 'deny existence to everything except your self.' Through desire you have created the world with its pains and pleasures.... Enquire, investigate, doubt yourself and others. To find truth, you must not cling to your convictions; if you are sure of the immediate, you will never reach the ultimate."



...And to steer things back on topic; "the doubt sensation" is why I doubt the law of attraction to be worthy of the attention it's receiving. The reason being, 'The Secret' teaches you to stop the inner searching only after the introductory stages of solipsism, then starts promoting the superficial desires and wants of the shallow individual as a western twist, in turn residing the practitioner of 'The Secret' to the role of distractor of the self and worshiper of materialism- keeping them seeking outside gratification, and keeping them from realizing themselves. If you honestly think distraction is truth and genuine, I hate to break it to you, but that's actually the fundamental flaw of the experience. If one begins to worship and widen the gap between themselves and others to the point they can not realize or reflect on their connection to outside objects, what exactly is the point in observing? Admittedly proceeding forward with that methodology of outside distraction will undeniably find, there is no other point other than distraction, which has itself biting it's own tail proving itself erroneous and false in the end.

Contrary to modern beliefs: The self is not a byproduct of the experience...the experience is the byproduct of the self.

...Think about it

Well stated Solskye.

As to the law of attraction, power of intention, or any other label one wishes to put on "it", such is in effect 24/7/365 regardless of belief, doubt, or realization of such. Such is the "energy" of Self creating the experience or illusion around oneself. Nothing experienced is seperate from Self. Such is the observation.


One can be ignorant of such and anchor themselves deeper into the illusion and its percieved distinctions and remain distracted by pursuing materialistoc goals or one can anchor themselves in the reality that the "experience is a byproduct of the Self" and pursue the dissolution of the illusion. IE prying yourSelf away from the "immediate" which one has grown so accustomed to accepting.

Using "intention" or "law of attraction" for materialistic reasons is like using water colors to paint the world around you and adding more pigment to deepen the colors and make the painting stand out more and seem more real around oneself.

Using "intention" or "law of attraction" for the reason of prying oneself away from the illusion is like adding water to the paint to the point where the painting actually dissolves around oneself

The Secret - Existentialism for the laymen.
~

Originally Posted by Absolute

But what if others are in the same world but outside of our common perception reality and share the same experience? Possible coincidence?

We all have roughly similar experiences when on PCP, acid, heroine, etc.
We all have similar brains, so similar quirks are to be expected.

Originally Posted by Absolute

I completely grasp your point

Originally Posted by Absolute

don't understand why you would assume that I am fearful of death and because of this I'm believing in 'fabricated eternal components' to make it seem like there is something beyond death to relieve me of the fear.

You do not understand my point, and I really feel that I did a good job of explaining myself. What part of it are you not understanding?

Originally Posted by Absolute

What you say is logical but it still doesn't discard the fact that you haven't experienced anything that is out of the norm to change your perception on reality.

What is this 'norm' you speak of? Nothing is out of the norm for me, it's just not yet in it. Flying aircraft would have been considered witchcraft a few hundred years ago, right? There is nothing 'abnormal' - these things are merely areas of the world that science has yet to fully address. Just because it hasn't doesn't mean it won't and doesn't mean we can invent new rules to cover these gaps in our knowledge. An open wound is better than a quick patch-up in this case.

Originally Posted by Absolute

Of course, and I am in complete agreement with you. Since it is imperfect, however, I do not consider one thing possible and another not. I consider all possibilities, regardless if I may or may not have an explanation for it. This is why I believe in what I believe in, same reason why you believe in your perception of reality with the facts you have researched.

Anything is possible, but that does not allow you to believe in anything you want as likely. Like unicorns, santa claus, and a god. Yes, astral planes and whatnot are possible, but no, that does not make it acceptable to believe that they do exist.

Originally Posted by Absolute

What I wonder is, if you find something that doesn't have facts to support it, do you ever attempt to theorize yourself concerning the possibility since no one else has come up with the answer yet? You can believe whatever you want to believe.

What do you mean, something with no facts to support it? I don't understand what you're referring to. And yes, you can believe what you want, but that doesn't make it logically acceptable. People who believe in unicorns, or do not believe in evolution, for example, are simply wrong - unless they have actual supporting evidence for their claims.

Originally Posted by Absolute

So everyone who sees auras, who astral projects, who speaks telepathically between others, and moves objects with their mind are all simply being blinded by tricks of the brain even if there are spectators? Or just because we can not explain it, it is perhaps an illusion?

Yes, those are all most likely (99%) tricks of the mind - usually of the mind of the person claiming to perform the feat. There are tons of people out to make a buck on gullible hopefuls. If the fact that none of these feats has ever been successfully repeated under controlled conditions doesn't bother you, it should.

Originally Posted by Absolute

Since when am I or anyone in this topic making crap up? This topic originally was about the Law of Attraction. Despite this and what the conversation has turned into, I have a different perception of reality due to my experiences and research and the same with you. Just because you don't believe in what myself and others believe in doesn't mean it is 'crap'.

I'm not referring to you in particular, I'm referring to the whole new-age mindset of rejecting science and instead making 'crap' up. I'm sorry if this sounds insulting, but I'm really just mentally flustered at how dogged so many people are in their beliefs when they have not a shred of evidence in their favor. Souls, astral travel, any sort of 'super human' mental powers - people actually manage to believe these things exist, and yet there is not a shred of proper evidence. The only conclusion? They're content with making crap up and then accepting it, instead of actually subjecting their beliefs to the gauntlet of the scientific

Originally Posted by Absolute

I believe you misread the page, my friend. The website declared him as a commonly known illusionist, obviously because whoever wrote the article does not believe in metaphysics. He himself declares it as an art, and the practice itself is becoming quite common in India. There's so many other videos that I could give you links to as well with an alternate view of metaphysics than simply levitation. Then again, your beliefs may simply discard it as illusion.

I'm sorry, I think you're just gullible. If this were real, he wouldn't need that stick, and he could do it inside of a glass box provided by a third party. I would bet you all the money in the world that he would be unable to 'perform' under such conditions.

Originally Posted by Absolute

Again, another accusation that which is false. I have not lied to you in any way. I've simply stated a few things that which are out of your area of study and interest since not many facts back them up besides experiencing it for yourself. Perhaps I may have been mistaken about what I read a while back in regards to the neurons, but if I was mistaken why does that imply to me as a liar and be faced by such fury against you when it is so unecessary? Can you simply bring up some facts to support that my comment was false and simply say "I believe you are incorrect" rather than "Oh, you're a liar."

I see your point, and I appreciate your patience with my temper. Like I said, I'm just really fed up with people who disseminate falsities guised as absolute truths. I'm all the more sensitive to this in neuroscience, because of my interest in the field. If I can stop any false information from being propagated, I'm happy. Just don't use facts that you're not entirely sure of to support such important beliefs.

Originally Posted by Absolute

You appear to be very biased against things that don't correlate with your perception of reality, and with that you back your comments with such anger over something that is so insignificant. Then again, that is what debates are commonly full of: confrontation. I don't understand why it can never be left out. I guess people get too caught up with emotions, especially on these discussion boards.

I get angry at people I perceive as foolish. It's probably a deep-seated concern for humanity (I don't mean that offensively, I'm just guessing at why I get irritated). Humanity will never get anywhere if people start rejecting science and facts, and believing wholeheartedly in everything they experience with no critical assessment.

Originally Posted by Absolute

Anywho, it was a pleasure conversing with you on this topic. If you'd like to continue further I'd ask you to kindly PM me so that we don't get off the original topic and can allow the discussion of the Law of Attraction to continue.

Well, other people have continued it anyways, so I might as well post this last response. I once again thank you for your impressive calm

I don't think there's much to be discussed about this "law" anyways, we've already determined that it's not a real law and it won't work without the psychological aspects, which are natural human nature anyways.

Originally Posted by SolSkye

I'm curious about this. But there is something subtle which I still don't understand. Solskye, how can this image (above) and its meaning, in front of me, not be confused with another object from the Additive - The Realm of Reaction? I guess this question can go with my forum topic "Forever or Never".

Originally Posted by thegnome54

We all have similar brains, so similar quirks are to be expected.

Dude you can't even spell them correctly. The same quarks are to be expected, but it is how the subatomic particles are that is important, not what is there.

Originally Posted by thegnome54

Anything is possible, but that does not allow you to believe in anything you want as likely. Like unicorns, santa claus, and a god. Yes, astral planes and whatnot are possible, but no, that does not make it acceptable to believe that they do exist.

"Anything is possible, but that does not allow you to believe in anything you want as likely." - Is a little strange, I mean if anything is possible, anything you believe can be likely.

And do you think the kids who accept the Santa Claus and the like, care about science? To them, they exist already, that's what matters.

It is about the personal experience, if you felt something extreme and radically special I doubt you'd ignore it because of the science in your world.

Originally Posted by thegnome54

They're content with making crap up and then accepting it, instead of actually subjecting their beliefs to the gauntlet of the scientific.

It's only considered "making crap up" I'm guessing because you just don't understand it from their point of view. What they are saying or doing is not purely to annoy you, don't become angry or frustrated.

Originally Posted by really

"Anything is possible, but that does not allow you to believe in anything you want as likely." - Is a little strange, I mean if anything is possible, anything you believe can be likely.

I mean that it's possible, but not likely, that our currently accepted theories are wrong. You can't go around saying that it's likely they are without some rationalization, that's all.

Originally Posted by really

And do you think the kids who accept the Santa Claus and the like, care about science? To them, they exist already, that's what matters.

Maybe some kids - when I was five, I disproved the easter bunny: "Mom, how did the easter bunny put eggs in the office when the door was closed? Bunnies can't open doors!"

Kids may not know what 'science' means, but they still use it. "Science" is just a label we've put on the basic processes all humans use to gain knowledge of the world - I'm sure many kids have stayed up until midnight to try to see Santa before. That's a primitive experiment to try to gather data about the issue.

Originally Posted by really

It is about the personal experience, if you felt something extreme and radically special I doubt you'd ignore it because of the science in your world.

I feel like you're misusing the term 'science' here.

Originally Posted by really

It's only considered "making crap up" I'm guessing because you just don't understand it from their point of view. What they are saying or doing is not purely to annoy you, don't become angry or frustrated.

It's not that I don't understand their point of view, it's that they are not bothering to validate their claims with proper evidence - something which should be an intrinsic part of human nature.

For all we know, the things we're arguing about now could probably exist commonly a hundred years from now and we'll look back.

"Hey Gnome, remember back when we use to argue on the Dreamviews Forum before we could consciously tap into the world wide web by thought?"

"Yeah, good times."

I may not have a lot of evidence to support my beliefs, but it is the possibility that makes the things so fascinating. I'd rather live in a world without a box than live with one over me until certain aspects have been proven. To me, imagination is the most wonderful and fun thing in the reality. From how humanity has evolved, I just don't see any limits upon us in the future.

Gnome, even though you don't belief in an afterlife, I'd recommend you take a peak at this site and look at what things have been recorded for NDEs from atheists: www.near-death.com

Just something to look into. *shrug*

To not believe in the afterlife makes death a very scary thing. I cant actually understand how there couldnt be life after death, to disbelieve in it you might as well be a 100% aethiest (did i spell that right)?

If the aethiests world were true, what would be the point even being alive? you would live in constant fear, death theoretically could come to anyone at any moment. I for one would be scared shitless if we just turn to dust and cease to exist at that.

Originally Posted by Swank

To not believe in the afterlife makes death a very scary thing. I cant actually understand how there couldnt be life after death, to disbelieve in it you might as well be a 100% aethiest (did i spell that right)?

If the aethiests world were true, what would be the point even being alive? you would live in constant fear, death theoretically could come to anyone at any moment. I for one would be scared shitless if we just turn to dust and cease to exist at that.

What would be the point in being alive if you are a theist? If you believe in the afterlife, then you should welcome death.

Because of the overwhelming variables that make me inclined to atheism more than theism, I feel I appreciate life more because of the idea that there could be no afterlife. (These may not be my actual beliefs, but I am more inclined to atheism than theism)
~

Dominantly right brained people v.s. Dominantly left brained people

Originally Posted by Swank

To not believe in the afterlife makes death a very scary thing. I cant actually understand how there couldnt be life after death, to disbelieve in it you might as well be a 100% aethiest (did i spell that right)?

If the aethiests world were true, what would be the point even being alive? you would live in constant fear, death theoretically could come to anyone at any moment. I for one would be scared shitless if we just turn to dust and cease to exist at that.

Yeah, you're basically proving my point here.

I'm more or less convinced now that a majority of these beliefs I would consider 'delusional' and 'made up' stem from basic human fears of mortality.

There is no 'point' to being alive, death can come at any moment - just like the bugs you crush and the animals which are killed by predators daily - and yes, death is scary until you get used to it. That doesn't keep me from enjoying life, though. I don't need a purpose handed to me, I can make my own.

But if everything you do is pointless by giving yourself purpose your essentially doing the same thing as theists.

Originally Posted by grasshoppa

But if everything you do is pointless by giving yourself purpose your essentially doing the same thing as theists.

No... setting a goal for yourself is not at all the same as contending that there is an invisible man who gave you one.

There is no purpose.

Only... there is process... flux.

If something has no end, it has no purpose.

If you were to bring up a child, teaching him that 1 + 1 = 1, he would believe it.
He would theorise from that very stem.

How is logic right?
Why do we accept such at face value?

How can we say that anything is anything? We can't.

We can't comprehend infinity with logic, yet logic claims it most logical for the universe to be so, unless of course.. you believe otherwise?

Other than that... i don't care.
I'll pretend to, for the sake of nothing.

Originally Posted by Oneironaut_Jeff777

Dominantly right brained people v.s. Dominantly left brained people

Left-brained people vs. full-brained people.

Originally Posted by thegnome54

No... setting a goal for yourself is not at all the same as contending that there is an invisible man who gave you one.

Im starting to understand where you are coming from...slowly. I dont consider myself a theist as such. Although the idea that we are aware of our own consciousness just through evolution, and that it doesnt really mean anything beyond that, just doesnt seem right to me.

You can really take the is it worth living thing from both perspectives: An athiest believes in nothing apart from the physical, therefore they could either enjoy the fact that they are aware of their own cons. and know that at any time its all over and means nothing, or see the meaningless of life and see their life as pointless; A theist believes in other dimensions/jesus the saviour/any sort of other force or power, and therefore could either see meaning in life as doing what their beliefs/religion deems as 'the correct way to live' and being happy that they are following what they believe is how to live life properly, or feeling like a failure if they do something that they think is against the will of god or what is supposed to be the correct thing to do.

The other day I had a long conversation about all of this with a friend at work whos a pretty hardcore Christadelphian. After an hour long debate we decided we should probably serve the angry looking customers (and that it doesnt matter what your beliefs about life are, if you can derive your own happiness from those beliefs, then in the end it doesnt matter whos right and whos wrong)

So yeah I dunno. Until some freaky supernatural shit goes down, we really wont know if theres an absolute truth to anything.

Originally Posted by ClouD

There is no purpose.



If something has no end, it has no purpose.

For the whole of the infinite perhaps, but there "Can Be" purpose on a relative level pertaining to finite points held within the infinite.

Problem with the secret:

Book claims that we have enough power in our body to illuminate a whole city for around a week.

Considering a typical 2000 calorie intake/day, this equates about 100 watts (96.85).

Even during an entire 70-year life time, we expend 70x52x100 watts-weeks of energy. Thus, 364 000 watts.

If each house used 1000 watts on average per day, the human can only provide for 364 households. Is that a city..?

Thanks to Skeptic for pointing out details.
~

Originally Posted by Swank

To not believe in the afterlife makes death a very scary thing. I cant actually understand how there couldnt be life after death, to disbelieve in it you might as well be a 100% aethiest (did i spell that right)?

I can't understand how there could be life after death. You work under the assumption we are special, we are different. There is something there that is not on the rock on the beach. In fact I'm afraid the evidence points to the fact that no, we are not special, whatsoever. We are simply a different forming of the same molecules making everything else. Our mind is a collection of electrical impulses and formulas creating what we would refer to as the illusion of the soul. Research into alsymers patients has shown this incredibly well. I will divulge in a later post, if you're interested.


I personally would find it far more scary if there was no death. Very scary indeed.

Originally Posted by Swank

If the aethiests world were true, what would be the point even being alive? you would live in constant fear, death theoretically could come to anyone at any moment. I for one would be scared shitless if we just turn to dust and cease to exist at that.

What would be the point in being alive in a theists world? If we lived for eternity, I'd of thought that would be rather pointless itself.

Death can come at any moment. Look out

I don't live in constant fear? In fact If I'm not mistaken the term "god-fearing" seems to imply more of a constantly fearing existence

We turn to dust, and its wonderful.

Originally Posted by ClouD

There is no purpose.

Right. Not in the long run, maybe.

Originally Posted by ClouD

If you were to bring up a child, teaching him that 1 + 1 = 1, he would believe it.

No he wouldnt.

What you are doing here cloud, is treating mathematics and logic as science, and fact. Which it isn't.

There is a level of udnerstanding that goes into mathematics which far surpasses anything else we know of. You could indeed teach a child "1+1=1" and they would believe you, BUT they would simply remember this as a formula, the application in the real world, would count for shit.

I f that child, who when asked 1+1? will answer 1, if he sees 1 apple, and adds one to it, he sees two apples. Hence he understands inherently aand knows that 1+1=2. What he has been taught is abstract to the real world application of mathematics.

So in short No. He would not.

Originally Posted by ClouD

He would theorise from that very stem.

How is logic right?

How ISN'T logic right?!

Originally Posted by ClouD

Why do we accept such at face value?

How can we say that anything is anything? We can't.

Yes we can. Anything is anything. There. That is true. Anything really IS anything!

Originally Posted by ClouD

We can't comprehend infinity with logic, yet logic claims it most logical for the universe to be so, unless of course.. you believe otherwise?

I can comprehend infinity with logic.. :s Can't you?

If you feel the need we can start another topic on that.

Originally Posted by ClouD

Other than that... i don't care.
I'll pretend to, for the sake of nothing.

Good way to live.

Originally Posted by NonDualist

For the whole of the infinite perhaps, but there "Can Be" purpose on a relative level pertaining to finite points held within the infinite.

I agree. Odd that.

Carousel: refer to my last post

but yes, i do know what you mean.

Originally Posted by Carôusoul

I can't understand how there could be life after death.

Do you understand how there is even life in the first place?

Hi all

First of all.. some of this discussion goes over my head, but I'd like to offer my thoughts.

Originally Posted by Roller

Sure, wish for money, but most people are going to come into conact with money every day. Try wishing for a brand new Jaguar XJ to turn up on your doorstep and find just how effective "attractive thinking" is.

I did and it worked fine for me. Okay so it wasn't new, but the set of circumstances were nothing short of wierd. Two Jaguars, one for free, one for £10. Reason? A family were emigrating and wanted them to go to an enthusiast.

I have wanted a Jag for years. Didn't know how I'd get one, where I'd keep it or look after it or how I'd get it. I just knew that one day I would get one. Then the Jags found me.

I don't place any faith in the "secret", all I do is carry on with what works for me. I am a big believer in the fact that everything done has an equal reaction. For something bad, there is something good. Everything balances out.

As for the near death thing some people have been talking about:

Been there, done that, NOT groovy. No lights, no tunnel, just nothingness. Then pain and awareness and you're back in the room. Yes its scary. But this event has forced me to get off my arse, and get on with my life. I am now very much a "Do it now!" type person.

But - I am not saying it doesn't happen, it just didn't happen to me. I've seen and heard random stuff that doesn't add up, and suggests there is something after death. I don't know what, I don't know why, all I know is I'll find out for certain the day I make the journey all the way to its end.

I'm can't say I'm an atheist... there must be something out there. To have evolved to this state can't have been chance. But I don't believe in God, as I was taught.

Regards

Ric

Originally Posted by blade5x

Do you understand how there is even life in the first place?

Yes. Don't you?

Originally Posted by Carôusoul

I can't understand how there could be life after death. You work under the assumption we are special, we are different. There is something there that is not on the rock on the beach. In fact I'm afraid the evidence points to the fact that no, we are not special, whatsoever. We are simply a different forming of the same molecules making everything else. Our mind is a collection of electrical impulses and formulas creating what we would refer to as the illusion of the soul. Research into alsymers patients has shown this incredibly well. I will divulge in a later post, if you're interested.


I personally would find it far more scary if there was no death. Very scary indeed.




What would be the point in being alive in a theists world? If we lived for eternity, I'd of thought that would be rather pointless itself.

Death can come at any moment. Look out

I don't live in constant fear? In fact If I'm not mistaken the term "god-fearing" seems to imply more of a constantly fearing existence

We turn to dust, and its wonderful.






Right. Not in the long run, maybe.





No he wouldnt.

What you are doing here cloud, is treating mathematics and logic as science, and fact. Which it isn't.

There is a level of udnerstanding that goes into mathematics which far surpasses anything else we know of. You could indeed teach a child "1+1=1" and they would believe you, BUT they would simply remember this as a formula, the application in the real world, would count for shit.

I f that child, who when asked 1+1? will answer 1, if he sees 1 apple, and adds one to it, he sees two apples. Hence he understands inherently aand knows that 1+1=2. What he has been taught is abstract to the real world application of mathematics.

So in short No. He would not.




How ISN'T logic right?!




Yes we can. Anything is anything. There. That is true. Anything really IS anything!



I can comprehend infinity with logic.. :s Can't you?

If you feel the need we can start another topic on that.



Good way to live.




I agree. Odd that.

Lulz, Overkill.

Agreed, though.

Originally Posted by Carôusoul

Yes. Don't you?

Please enlighten me. I'm not talking about evolution. I'm talking existence in general.