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      Incredible!

      I posted and quoted the first part of this ebook I found, called "The Master Key System" by Charles Haanel in 1912. It says it's built like a textbook, it has questions and answers for a student, and should not be read like a novel.

      Wow! What a read, even just skimming through this stuff is amazing. It's like some kind of thought-bible; so nobly written. However, I do warn you before reading, it does seem very brainwashing if you know what I mean, read it at your own risk.


      Here goes: (Page 11-17 of 163)

      Quote Originally Posted by The Master Key System

      INTRODUCTION - PART ONE

      It is my privilege to enclose herewith Part One of The Master Key System. Would you bring into your life more power, get the power consciousness, more health, get the health consciousness, more happiness, get the happiness consciousness. Live the spirit of these things until they become yours by right. It will then become impossible to keep them from you. The things of the world are fluid to a power within man by which he rules them.
      You need not acquire this power. You already have it. But you want to understand it; you want to use it; you want to control it; you want to impregnate yourself with it, so that you can go forward and carry the world before you.

      Day by day as you go on and on, as you gain momentum, as your inspiration deepens, as your plans crystallize, as you gain understanding, you will come to realize that this world is no dead pile of stones and timber, but that it is a living thing! It is made up of the beating hearts of humanity. It is a thing of life and beauty.

      It is evident that it requires understanding to work with material of this description, but those who come into this understanding, are inspired by a new light, a new force, they gain confidence and greater power each day, they realize their hopes and their dreams come true, life has a deeper, fuller, clearer meaning than before.
      And, now, Part One....

      PART ONE


      1. That much gathers more is true on every plane of existence and that loss leads to greater loss is equally true.

      2. Mind is creative, and conditions, environment and all experiences in life are the result of our habitual or predominant mental attitude.

      3. The attitude of mind necessarily depends upon what we think. Therefore, the secret of all power, all achievement and all possession depends upon our method of thinking.

      4. This is true because we must "be" before we can "do," and we can "do" only to the extent which we "are," and what we "are" depends upon what we "think."

      5. We cannot express powers that we do not possess. The only way by which we may secure possession of power is to become conscious of power, and we can never become conscious of power until we learn that all power is from within.

      6. There is a world within – a world of thought and feeling and power; of light and life and beauty and, although invisible, its forces are mighty.

      7. The world within is governed by mind. When we discover this world we shall find the solution for every problem, the cause for every effect; and since the world within is subject to our control, all laws of power and possession are also within our control.

      8. The world without is a reflection of the world within. What appears without is what has been found within. In the world within may be found infinite Wisdom, infinite Power, infinite Supply of all that is necessary, waiting for unfoldment, development and expression. If we recognize these potentialities in the world within they will take form in the world without.

      9. Harmony in the world within will be reflected in the world without by harmonious conditions, agreeable surroundings, the best of everything. It is the foundation of health and a necessary essential to all greatness, all power, all attainment, all achievement and all success.

      10. Harmony in the world within means the ability to control our thoughts, and to determine for ourselves how any experience is to affect us.

      11. Harmony in the world within results in optimism and affluence; affluence within results in affluence without.

      12. The world without reflects the circumstances and the conditions of the consciousness within.

      13. If we find wisdom in the world within, we shall have the understanding to discern the marvelous possibilities that are latent in this world within, and we shall be given the power to make these possibilities manifest in the world without.

      14. As we become conscious of the wisdom in the world within, we mentally take possession of this wisdom, and by taking mental possession we come into actual possession of the power and wisdom necessary to bring into manifestation the essentials necessary for our most complete and harmonious development.

      15. The world within is the practical world in which the men and women of power generate courage, hope, enthusiasm, confidence, trust and faith, by which they are given the fine intelligence to see the vision and the practical skill to make the vision real.

      16. Life is an unfoldment, not accretion. What comes to us in the world without is what we already possess in the world within.

      17. All possession is based on consciousness. All gain is the result of an accumulative consciousness. All loss is the result of a scattering consciousness.

      18. Mental efficiency is contingent upon harmony; discord means confusion; therefore, he who would acquire power must be in harmony with Natural Law.

      19. We are related to the world without by the objective mind. The brain is the organ of this mind and the cerebro-spinal system of nerves puts us in conscious communication with every part of the body. This system of nerves responds to every sensation of light, heat, odor, sound and taste.

      20. When this mind thinks correctly, when it understands the truth, when the thoughts sent through the cerebro-spinal nervous system to the body are constructive, these sensations are pleasant, harmonious.

      21. The result is that we build strength, vitality and all constructive forces into our body, but it is through this same objective mind that all distress, sickness, lack, limitation and every form of discord and in harmony is admitted to our lives. It is therefore through the objective mind, by wrong thinking, that we are related to all destructive forces.

      22. We are related to the world within by the subconscious mind. The solar plexus is the organ of this mind; the sympathetic system of nerves presides over all subjective sensations, such as joy, fear, love, emotion, respiration, imagination and all other subconscious phenomena. It is through the subconscious that we are connected with the Universal Mind and brought into relation with the Infinite constructive forces of the Universe.

      23. It is the coordination of these two centers of our being, and the understanding of their functions, which is the great secret of life. With this knowledge we can bring the objective and subjective minds into conscious cooperation and thus coordinate the finite and the infinite. Our future is entirely within our own control. It is not at the mercy of any capricious or uncertain external power.

      24. All agree that there is but one Principle or Consciousness pervading the entire Universe, occupying all space, and being essentially the same in kind at every point of its presence. It is all powerful, all wisdom and always present. All thoughts and things are within Itself. It is all in all.

      25. There is but one consciousness in the universe able to think; and when it thinks, its thoughts become objective things to it. As this Consciousness is omnipresent, it must be present within every individual; each individual must be a manifestation of that Omnipotent, Omniscient and Omnipresent Consciousness.

      26. As there is only one Consciousness in the Universe that is able to think it necessarily follows that your consciousness is identical with the Universal Consciousness, or, in other words, all mind is one mind. There is no dodging this conclusion.

      27. The consciousness that focuses in your brain cells is the same consciousness which focuses in the brain cells of every other individual. Each individual is but the individualization of the Universal, the Cosmic Mind.

      28. The Universal Mind is static or potential energy; it simply is; it can manifest only through the individual, and the individual can manifest only through the Universal. They are one.

      29. The ability of the individual to think is his ability to act on the Universal and bring it into manifestation. Human consciousness consists only in the ability of man to think. Mind in itself is believed to be a subtle form of static energy, from which arises the activities called 'thought, ' which is the dynamic phase of mind. Mind is static energy, thought is dynamic energy -the two phases of the same thing. Thought is therefore the vibratory force formed by converting static mind into dynamic mind.

      30. As the sum of all attributes are contained in the Universal Mind, which is Omnipotent, Omniscient and Omnipresent, these attributes must be present at all times in their potential form in every individual. Therefore, when the individual thinks, the thought is compelled by its nature to embody itself in an objectivity or condition which will correspond with its origin.

      31. Every thought therefore is a cause and every condition an effect; for this reason it is absolutely essential that you control your thoughts so as to bring forth only desirable conditions.

      32. All power is from within, and is absolutely under your control; it comes through exact knowledge and by the voluntary exercises of exact principles.

      33. It should be plain that when you acquire a thorough understanding of this law, and are able to control your thought processes, you can apply it to any condition; in other words, you will have come into conscious cooperation with Omnipotent law which is the fundamental basis of all things.

      34. The Universal Mind is the life principle of every atom which is in existence; every atom is continually striving to manifest more life; all are intelligent, and all are seeking to carry out the purpose for which they were created.

      35. A majority of mankind lives in the world without; few have found the world within, and yet it is the world within that makes the world without; it is therefore creative and everything which you find in your world without has been created by you in the world within.

      36. This system will bring you into a realization of power which will be yours when you understand this relation between the world without and the world within. The world within is the cause, the world without the effect; to change the effect you must change the cause.

      37. You will at once see that this is a radically new and different idea; most men try to change effects by working with effects. They fail to see that this is simply changing one form of distress for another. To remove discord, we must remove the cause, and this cause can be found only in the world within.

      38. All growth is from within. This is evident in all nature. Every plant, every animal, every human is a living testimony to this great law, and the error of the ages is in looking for strength or power from without.

      39. The world within is the Universal fountain of supply, and the world without is the outlet to the stream. Our ability to receive depends upon our recognition of this Universal Fountain, this Infinite Energy of which each individual is an outlet, and so is one with every other individual.

      40. Recognition is a mental process, mental action is therefore the interaction of the individual upon the Universal Mind, and as the Universal Mind is the intelligence which pervades all space and animates all living things, this mental action and reaction is the law of causation, but the principle of causation does not obtain in the individual but in the Universal Mind. It is not an objective faculty but a subjective process, and the results are seen in an infinite variety of conditions and experiences.

      41. In order to express life there must be mind; nothing can exist without mind. Everything which exists is some manifestation of this one basic substance from which and by which all things have been created and are continually being recreated.

      42. We live in a fathomless sea of plastic mind substance. This substance is ever alive and active. It is sensitive to the highest degree. It takes form according to the mental demand. Thought forms the mold or matrix from which the substance expresses.

      43. Remember that it is in the application alone that the value consists, and that a practical understanding of this law will substitute abundance for poverty, wisdom for ignorance, harmony for discord and freedom for tyranny, and certainly there can be no greater blessing than these from a material and social standpoint.

      44. Now make the application: Select a room where you can be alone and undisturbed; sit erect, comfortably, but do not lounge; let your thoughts roam where they will but be perfectly still for from fifteen minutes to half an hour; continue this for three or four days or for a week until you secure full control of your physical being.

      45. Many will find this extremely difficult; others will conquer with ease, but it is absolutely essential to secure complete control of the body before you are ready to progress. Next week you will receive instructions for the next step; in the meantime you must have mastered this one.
      I got the link to this whole ebook if you would like it, just let me know. This is only one of the "Parts", as there are twenty-four of them in total!

    2. #2
      The Supreme Echelon Absolute's Avatar
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      24?! I want all of them. My mouth is drooling for the next steps.
      -Absolute Wisdom

      "Life is much like a barren road. You can choose to leave it and end up in a deserted wasteland, or you can follow the road to see what is beyond the horizon."

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      Quote Originally Posted by Absolute View Post
      24?! I want all of them. My mouth is drooling for the next steps.
      lol. Don't read it too quickly.


      Here's the ebook if anyone wants it, I may as well post it up, since it's so easy to find anyway.

      http://www.universallawstoday.com/ebooks/masterkey.pdf

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      Why don't we have a discussion? This is great stuff.


      Absolute, how's it going? Have you tried step 44 in Part 1?



      What are your thoughts guys!?

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      the angel of deaf Achievements:
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      It's hard for me to see what he is talking about... He doesn't explain things clearly.
      Maybe you can summarize a few point for us, and explain them in your own words?
      A generous heart, kind speech, and a life of service
      and compassion are the things which renew humanity.

      Buddha
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      ҈҈My music҈҈


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      Quote Originally Posted by dodobird View Post
      It's hard for me to see what he is talking about... He doesn't explain things clearly.
      Maybe you can summarize a few point for us, and explain them in your own words?
      Didn't you understand the introduction? That's what this section/Part 1 is about. First becoming aware of the way things work - the way the world around you unravels in relation to you thoughts. It is recognizing and applying the power we already have within our mind. Read it slower, sometimes that helps. lol

      I have nothing against you dodobird, I was going to post this (below) eventually, so it's not directed at you.

      These Master Keys are working for me already, but I wonder if anyone will believe me... Now that it is working for me, how are you going to prove not? Some things you need to believe to experience, that's why I don't hold myself back with blunt ignorance. I see it in places over the forums: "Bullshit...greed...waffle... this is an excuse to..." - just the way people see others views on life. I feel sorry for those out there making reasons to hate everything. The ignorant should be more open minded; let things work for them, let them learn. If you are one of those people, it would be healthy to start experiencing everything like you never have before.

      "Oh, but I want to sound like a smartass and make everyone else feel like shit with my complaints because this formula of yours doesn't work for me." I'll tell you why it doesn't work, because you aren't trying. My analogy:

      You're acting like someone who has lost their glasses, and says that everything sucks because now they can't find them. "What do you expect me to do? I can't see anything! Everything is blurry! I feel like punching a wall! What would you know? I'm blind!" Well instead of finding reasons to make something fail for you, ask me if I can find them. And if I'm not there for you, feel until you find them. If you can't feel them, feel for the phone, get the ambulance to get it for you. Go all the way, make life work for you.

      Anyway, here's my summary of Points 1-4:

      Firstly the way I see this is, you have to understand one point before moving onto the next, because each one cumulates the point raised in the previous. It's kind of like a story.

      1. Good thinking gathers more good into your life, is equally true as to bad thinking bringing bad into your life.

      2. Mind is creative, and conditions, environment and all experiences in life, is the outcome of the main way we think about things - our attitude.

      3. Having said that the mind is creative and that it conditions life around us, our world, experiences and emotions depend on this mental attitude.

      4. Before these elements of our life physically change, we must believe - feel and think that they are already working.

      I hope that helps.
      Last edited by really; 10-16-2007 at 07:17 AM.

    7. #7
      the angel of deaf Achievements:
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      My problem with this is that it seems mostly on the theoretical side, while it is an approach which is meant to help practically. So I'd like you to explain the practical aspect of it, how you can actually benefit from it. I'm not doubting this, I just want you to explain it to slow thinkers such as myself : p
      A generous heart, kind speech, and a life of service
      and compassion are the things which renew humanity.

      Buddha
      ҉
      ҈҈My music҈҈


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      Quote Originally Posted by dodobird View Post
      My problem with this is that it seems mostly on the theoretical side, while it is an approach which is meant to help practically. So I'd like you to explain the practical aspect of it, how you can actually benefit from it. I'm not doubting this, I just want you to explain it to slow thinkers such as myself : p
      Ok, yes it is very mental, lol. The idea I'm getting is that all these concepts are supposed to aid our way of thinking, our perception and the likes. Taking into account that I haven't reached Part 2 yet, it seems so far like a procedure to pure harmonic thinking. Each step is a concept you must learn/understand for things to work.

      The outcome of good thinking is practically everything around us; the practical aspect apart from changing the way we think, reflects through the world around us and how things affect us. It must first be true in the mind before it can be true anywhere else. Mental health = physical health. Our beliefs and expectations affect our intuition and how to manoeuvre through the world. To benefit, you will be happy, optimistic, and will have an understanding of the world around you and what you make of it. You will bring good into the world which you can experience, faith becomes second nature and your desires will easily be met. It will not feel like planet earth no more.
      Last edited by really; 10-16-2007 at 02:02 PM.

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      the angel of deaf Achievements:
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      Ok, this puts it in perspective for me to start and understand it,
      thanks. ;D
      A generous heart, kind speech, and a life of service
      and compassion are the things which renew humanity.

      Buddha
      ҉
      ҈҈My music҈҈


    10. #10
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      Quote Originally Posted by dodobird View Post
      Ok, this puts it in perspective for me to start and understand it,
      thanks. ;D
      Cool. It is quite hard to grasp for the first few reads I must admit. I also edited that post, I should have did it earlier, but now some parts make more sense.
      Last edited by really; 10-16-2007 at 02:03 PM.

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      The Supreme Echelon Absolute's Avatar
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      Yes I have tried step 44 but this is something I've all ready mastered. Step 2 is something that I have accomplished to only a certain degree and I believe is what I need to work on. This book is like a doctrine of clear thinking. I love it.
      -Absolute Wisdom

      "Life is much like a barren road. You can choose to leave it and end up in a deserted wasteland, or you can follow the road to see what is beyond the horizon."

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      Drivel's Advocate Xaqaria's Avatar
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      That last bit sounds a tad like the prana bindu muscle training from the Dune series. Not nearly as indepth though.

      The ability to happily respond to any adversity is the divine.
      Art
      Dream Journal Shaman Apprentice Chronicles

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      Sounds great. I'm looking forward to Part 2, nearly finished this one.

      Xaqaria, prana bindu? Please explain.

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      Quote Originally Posted by really View Post
      Sounds great. I'm looking forward to Part 2, nearly finished this one.

      Xaqaria, prana bindu? Please explain.
      In the Dune series by Frank Herbert, there is a group of women called the Bene Gesserit who practice a sort of martial art called prana bindu that teaches you full control over every muscle in your body. One of the first lessons is to sit still and try to move your pinky toe without moving any other body part.

      The ability to happily respond to any adversity is the divine.
      Art
      Dream Journal Shaman Apprentice Chronicles

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      Quote Originally Posted by Xaqaria View Post
      In the Dune series by Frank Herbert, there is a group of women called the Bene Gesserit who practice a sort of martial art called prana bindu that teaches you full control over every muscle in your body. One of the first lessons is to sit still and try to move your pinky toe without moving any other body part.
      Gee that must be hard, considering how hard it is to move an individual toe anyway. I managed to teach myself how to do it.


      Apparently Bill Gates has followed this system. Wow.

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      Yuck, this inspires ignorance, and materialism, through the "ultimate" objective.

      Understanding who you truly are, is tenfold more important than this.

      Unless, you want to exist in a life of illusion.

      Then again, you do anyways.

      Ignorance can definately be bliss.

      Yet, material bliss, is nothing.
      Last edited by ClouD; 10-18-2007 at 08:53 PM.
      You merely have to change your point of view slightly, and then that glass will sparkle when it reflects the light.

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      Quote Originally Posted by cloudWalker View Post
      Yuck, this inspires ignorance, and materialism, through the "ultimate" objective.

      Understanding who you truly are, is tenfold more important than this.

      Unless, you want to exist in a life of illusion.

      Then again, you do anyways.

      Ignorance can definately be bliss.

      Yet, material bliss, is nothing.
      Especially after what I said, you shouldn't be posting for the sake of disagreement. But if you're up for discussion, I want to ask you:

      How exactly does this inspire ignorance and materialism? It to me is having an open mind, and learning about new things which may enhance our perspective of life. And on top of that, shouting to the Dreamviews world about it!

      Why is life inevitably an illusion?

      Quote Originally Posted by cloudWalker View Post
      Understanding who you truly are, is tenfold more important than this.
      Why? It probably doesn't fit in this topic anyway.
      Last edited by really; 10-20-2007 at 02:47 PM.

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      Quote Originally Posted by really View Post
      Especially after what I said, you shouldn't be posting for the sake of disagreement. But if you're up for discussion, I want to ask you:

      How exactly does this inspire ignorance and materialism? It to me is having an open mind, and learning about new things which may enhance our perspective of life. And on top of that, shouting to the Dreamviews world about it!

      Why is life inevitably an illusion?

      Why? It probably doesn't fit in this topic anyway.
      Indeed, i believe you fit into everything.

      It inspires ignorance, because it draws lines.
      It creates duality.
      The only type of person that would follow this, is a person who has wants.
      Wants, look to the future, where peace can never be found.
      Hope, has no purpose in our lives.

      Then again, lives are to be lived by the individual living.

      Understand i make no judgement.
      Good, and bad, are non-existent.

      Life is inevitably an illusion, because it cannot possibly be anything else.
      An illusion, is something without clarity.
      Clarity, is unattainable, without doubt, and there lies the illusion yet again.

      -Jake
      You merely have to change your point of view slightly, and then that glass will sparkle when it reflects the light.

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      Quote Originally Posted by really View Post
      How exactly does this inspire ignorance and materialism?
      I do not mean to intrude on this, but there is some small amount of wisdom to be set out here to look at.

      The subject of this topic is not much unlike the law of attraction, or as DR Wayen Dyer puts it "the Power of intention". All of these speak truth about being able to manipulate the physical circumstances surrounding ones percieved life in form. Such can be done, and such has been done throughout existance by individuals both knowingly and unkowingly.

      The thing to be wary of is that just as when one suddenly comes into a lot of monetary wealth one runs the risk of getting lost in the material aspects of existance, So is it with using such practices.

      Take a look at all the spritual masters who are said to have been "enlightened beings". Most lived their lives in seclusion and poverty, away from the trappings of materialistic involvement. There are valid reasons for this...

      It really comes down to knowing oneself inside before playing with the energies already at ones disposal, energies that most are ignorant of.

      Some advice for what it may be worth:

      Beeing Free and Unbound can never be achieved by aquiring, only by letting go. It is to that end, letting go, that such energies should be carefully used, if used at all.
      When one is really in touch with who and what they really are, indifference to the circumstances of ones material existance really starts to take center stage. The "I" sense, which fosters all the thoughts of need, want and desire begins to fade. Use that as a guage.

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      Interesting...

      Quote Originally Posted by NonDualistic View Post
      The thing to be wary of is that just as when one suddenly comes into a lot of monetary wealth one runs the risk of getting lost in the material aspects of existance, So is it with using such practices.
      I don't understand, how would you get lost? Why would you live in such a world and ignore the experiences it has for you?

      Quote Originally Posted by NonDualistic View Post
      Take a look at all the spritual masters who are said to have been "enlightened beings". Most lived their lives in seclusion and poverty, away from the trappings of materialistic involvement. There are valid reasons for this...
      But is that really valid, I mean why would you risk dieing in poverty, and by doing what exactly?

      Quote Originally Posted by NonDualistic View Post
      It really comes down to knowing oneself inside before playing with the energies already at ones disposal, energies that most are ignorant of.
      But that's what this ebook says. First you must look within before looking without. That's what this is about!

      Quote Originally Posted by NonDualistic View Post
      Beeing Free and Unbound can never be achieved by aquiring, only by letting go. It is to that end, letting go, that such energies should be carefully used, if used at all.
      Again, I don't fully understand this. Letting go of what - doing what?

      Quote Originally Posted by NonDualistic View Post
      When one is really in touch with who and what they really are, indifference to the circumstances of ones material existance really starts to take center stage. The "I" sense, which fosters all the thoughts of need, want and desire begins to fade. Use that as a guage.
      Nice. But are you saying that there is harm done by meeting desires logically in the world?

      Quote Originally Posted by cloudWalker View Post
      It inspires ignorance, because it draws lines.
      Where does it draw lines?

      Quote Originally Posted by cloudWalker View Post
      Understand i make no judgement.
      Good, and bad, are non-existent.
      To me, saying 'peace can never be found' is more ignorant. And saying you 'make no judgment' after judging this philosophy seems contradictory.

      Quote Originally Posted by cloudWalker View Post
      Life is inevitably an illusion, because it cannot possibly be anything else.
      An illusion, is something without clarity.
      Clarity, is unattainable, without doubt, and there lies the illusion yet again.
      I think you're being a bit too broad. Please, can you can clarify this? I doubt not.

      So what does it mean to be non-dualistic?
      Last edited by really; 10-21-2007 at 04:31 AM.

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      This philosophy is too early to even be judged unless if you've read through the entire ebook. It concentrates on everything in regards to reality and more about the Universal Mind and the potential of humans. It speaks not of material possession. Only those who see it as exploitable to acquire material possession will see it in such a way.

      Besides, if there are those who desire such possessions - allow them to acquire them until they learn it does not matter. Someone could have a dream to want a giant house when they're older, yet when they get it they realize it is not something they enjoy. This is a part of learning throughout life.

      To also add: This philosophy is fully capable of teaching one to become completely enlightened. Again, the gift of free-will can be abused with the Law of Attraction, but this philosophy teaches more than just 'focusing on desires' even though having desires is not bad. If someone gets caught up in material possessions, then they'll learn more about spirituality in the afterlife than in this life. Everyone has their own free will. This philosophy is highly valuable. It just depends on how you use it.
      -Absolute Wisdom

      "Life is much like a barren road. You can choose to leave it and end up in a deserted wasteland, or you can follow the road to see what is beyond the horizon."

    22. #22
      ex-redhat ClouD's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by really View Post
      Where does it draw lines?
      It draws lines (creates duality), by implying that it is "good" to have wants. Yet, as i said, peace cannot be found in the future's hopes, or the past's memories. Only in the now.

      Quote Originally Posted by really View Post
      To me, saying 'peace can never be found' is more ignorant. And saying you 'make no judgment' after judging this philosophy seems contradictory.
      I make no judgement, whether you believe the implication is there or not.
      I have not stated anything, but illusionary facts.

      Quote Originally Posted by really View Post
      I think you're being a bit too broad. Please, can you can clarify this? I doubt not.
      The difference between such thinking you call your own, and such thinking you would call mine, is that of the process of thinking on a different level, past details. I hunger to see the big picture, and in getting there (finding clarification), i would become broader in thinking. You, would become more detailed, and that, is where you could believe we are different.
      I say that life (everything) is an illusion. Yet, you request clarification. That contradiction, shows the gap between what you would believe to be seperate thinkings.

      Quote Originally Posted by really View Post
      So what does it mean to be non-dualistic?
      I shall leave you, with a tantra, and it's explanation.

      See the spoiler.

      Spoiler for Non-Duality.:
      You merely have to change your point of view slightly, and then that glass will sparkle when it reflects the light.

    23. #23
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      Quote Originally Posted by really View Post
      So what does it mean to be non-dualistic?
      Lets deal with this first.

      Duality and Non Duality is simplly the state in which one percieves all that is as being. Duality is seeing everything in a state of opposites. IE: self and other, past and future, right and wrong, tall and short, black and white, light and dark, good and bad, pleasureful and painful, etc etc, even unto God and man. Even the concept of duality and non duality is itself duality.
      Non Duality is seeing everything in a state of oneness, unbroken, no dividing lines.. One percieves everything as Self, Self without an other. What many refer to as God , by one label or another, is all that there is and all that is. Such is beyond concepts, beyond time, and beyond existance. Non Duality is the motionless, nothingness of the moment. (See Paperdolls recent topic on the moment) All that appears as "something" is merely illusion. Really knowing this first hand is akin to realizing being Lucid in a dream. It is the waking states Lucidity. Just as most never dream with luciduty, most never live awake with it either.


      I don't understand, how would you get lost? Why would you live in such a world and ignore the experiences it has for you?

      If you could do what you can do in a lucid dream without actually being lucid in the dream, would one go to the effort of becoming lucid? I mean if you said to yourself what you wanted to do in a dream before you went to sleep and it was done in your dream without you realizing you were in the dream , why bother attaining the realization? , the lucidity? Its no different in the waking state. If you learn to work with all these fantastic energies or powers without the 'lucid" realization of ones Self, who would ever go looking for such realization? Thats how one gets lost. One must be aware that unlike in a dream state one does not necesarily need to be enlightened or lucid in the waking state to make use of these powers. Even one who has already percieved the "waking lucidity" and has been working with stabilizing it can get tied up and sidetracked in trying to manipulate the circumstances of their material lives. Thats the risk, never attaining or even losing the "lucidity".



      But is that really valid, I mean why would you risk dieing in poverty, and by doing what exactly?


      Is such really a risk? or is that concept or worry, just part of illusionary existance, a product of the "I" or ego sense that is related to the body? The body is going to die anyhow, thats a given, and along with it all thats tied to it. If one realizes that they are not the body, nor any part thereof( physical or mental) then what is there to really risk in relation to wealth or poverty? Attaining and "enlightened" perception is not the same as maintaining it. While you are connected to the body duality persists all around you. Until that connection is broken there is always the possibilty of being pulled back into it. It all depends upon the individual and the circumstances around the individual. Thats the reason many, if not most, choose the seclusion and poverty. However there are exceptions.




      But that's what this ebook says. First you must look within before looking without. That's what this is about!

      Knowing onself beyond duality, as elaborated on above.. Some methods I have seen do not stress this.



      Again, I don't fully understand this. Letting go of what - doing what?
      To fully understand one must have direct experience, and that comes from "letting go" itself, so the best I can do is relate what letting go is to the best words can do to help bring one closer tho the "idea" of what such is. That is all that anyone can do in writing or speaking of such things.
      Letting go is the letting go of duality. Letting go of all the concepts, beliefs, ideas and so on that relates to duality. If it helps, my first direct experience came shortly after I truly and genuinely let go of the notion that "God" was something seperate from myself, that "Self" and "God" are one in the same and that "self"( ego identity, personality, the "I" sense) is just a manifestation of the energy of Self. Such is the same for all "indivuals", "you", "me", the "next person" and so on. No difference. The concepts of you, me and other is just that, concepts, born of duality. All illusion, though seemingly real while experiencing such. Such is the same on every plane of existance except the base, the substrate from which all planes of existance arise. Call it the, substrate, the base, the primordial Self, the white light, nothingness, whatever label you like. It is HERE NOW, it is the MOMENT. YOU are the moment, YOU are it. All one needs do is let go of all that one has believed themselves to be since birth in form
      and just be that which one already is. Its as simple as that and it is as complicated as that..Such is realization, such is enlightenment.
      I am sorry, but thats about the best words can do. Direct experience is the only way to know. All you have is yourself to work with. Yourself is all you really need. Awareness is the real key.




      Nice. But are you saying that there is harm done by meeting desires logically in the world?

      From firsthand experience with these energies or powers, however one wants to label such., its far easier to bring into your life circumstances you dont want than it is to bring in the circumstances you do want-. more duality. Its far better to let go of the duality of attraction and aversion and just accept and observe what comes and goes. However as Absolute basically points out, each must learn for themselves in their own way . But Yes, one can bring undesirable circumstances, physical harm or even death to the body they inhabit. Thats the short answer.
      Last edited by NonDualistic; 10-21-2007 at 07:49 PM. Reason: spelling

    24. #24
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      Thanks cloudWalker and Nondualistic, you've made some interesting posts. Thanks for the tantra spoiler too cloudWalker.

      Great reads. But I'd like it to be kept separate from this thread from now on, as that idea could be a thread itself.

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