Thread: You ever wonder if there really is a God?

Originally posted by LucidApple
Awaken i was raised neutral, so not as a believer and also not as an atheist and i still find that the best because that way you can find very good and clear your own trail in life.
You then first learn by knowing your indentity who you are and then further in time you read and talk and write about your interests with others and you form your own opinion on things.
I have always had science friends from when i was 17 (now 39) and i love philosophy and it took me 20 years to sovle most of the questions that never have been solved. some ideas i was way sooner with then science. like for example all moments of time are already there. And time has smallest quantum moments. so u cant devide time into infinite amounts.
Its a pitty that many believers cant see there truth is a relative one like all truth we got on earth. And then i mean also the truth of science is a relative one, look how it improves for centuries now. PPl tend to identify with there truth and kill even for it to protect it because they experience that truth as part of themselves or as the cause of there existence. The truth can never be more grand and clear then the consciousness it has to pas through or fit in.

Unfortunately I was not born into the same world as you, though I wish every day that I was so I could have gotten a head start on where I'm going now. I appreciate your beliefs regarding time, and the "one" instant, rather than past/present/future.

I was born and raised christian, but it always perplexed me and never really made any sense or gave me any sense of accomplishment or gratification. It was too stagnant for me. I never really learned anything important. When I started forming my own ideas, and using other peoples' ideas to guide me on a more neutral path, everything started becoming so much more clear and exciting. Instead of using images and stories to define what I can't see, it's much easier to use the general "it" to describe the intangible.

The sad thing about how I was raised is that I was never really encouraged to do the self-work you talked about. I was always looking up for guidance instead of looking inside myself. It left me in a perpetually-depressed state through some of my school years because I was always reaching out for understanding from the wrong sources. People kept telling me right from wrong, when really their ideas behind right and wrong were from society, and merely relative, not a matter of certainty. I knew I had feelings which were almost unanimously deemed 'wrong', but I knew these people have not been in my positiion and didn't understand the nature of what I was expressing. That was the last thing which finally pushed me over the edge to independent thought, and to this day I couldn't be happier with myself. The less people care about what other people think, and the more they observe what makes people happy instead of what makes people "normal", the better our lives can be.

An example of this in my life is showing affection towards kids. I was at a beach with my 10/11yo cousins. (The 10yo is the really huggy/cuddly type, and she feels totally at-ease around me.) Whenever she felt like she needed a hug, I was there to return it tenfold. I noticed some woman near us who was giving me dirty looks. Why, I wondered. How can a smile cause a frown? Rather than discourage me, it just made me feel that much more confident with my neutral stance towards everything.

Evangel the topic Question \"You ever wonder if there really is a God?\" The real essense behind that question is if at the origin and cause of all is consciousness (i dont mean human consciousness). [/b]

I understand the concept of consciousness but I don't equat God directly with consciousness because this consciousness is a very general term...

As far as being raised "neutrally" being "the best" way to be raised, no one can know whether or not the way they were raised is "the best" since they have never experienced it (childhood) any other way.

I was raised in a "mixed" home. My mother was/is Christian and my dad is agnostic. In other words my mom tried to raise me (and did somewhat) in a non-denominational Christian manner but since she was not "the man of the house" my dad's uncaring stance towards any religion also rubbed off on me. I eventually wanted to test the validity of what my mom was trying to teach me by exploring and researching other religions/philosophies to contrast it with what my mom taught me. Anyway, the more I contrasted and compared other teachings with what Christ teaches, the more I began to see the beauty of what he taught... (to make a longer story short). I now enjoy spending much of my time studying scripture, Theology, critical thinking (logic) and philosophy.

LucidApple: now that you have developed your own trail in life, what conclusions have you come to if any? And since truth is relative (which is a whole 'nother can o worms which has been opened a few times on this forum and probably on many others as well ) What "truth" have you come to believe?

Originally posted by Awaken
the sad thing about how I was raised is that I was never really encouraged to do the self-work you talked about. I was always looking up for guidance instead of looking inside myself. It left me in a perpetually-depressed state through some of my school years because I was always reaching out for understanding from the wrong sources. People kept telling me right from wrong, when really their ideas behind right and wrong were from society, and merely relative, not a matter of certainty. I knew I had feelings which were almost unanimously deemed 'wrong', but I knew these people have not been in my positiion and didn't understand the nature of what I was expressing. That was the last thing which finally pushed me over the edge to independent thought, and to this day I couldn't be happier with myself. The less people care about what other people think, and the more they observe what makes people happy instead of what makes people \"normal\", the better our lives can be.

An example of this in my life is showing affection towards kids. I was at a beach with my 10/11yo cousins. (The 10yo is the really huggy/cuddly type, and she feels totally at-ease around me.) Whenever she felt like she needed a hug, I was there to return it tenfold. I noticed some woman near us who was giving me dirty looks. Why, I wondered. How can a smile cause a frown? Rather than discourage me, it just made me feel that much more confident with my neutral stance towards everything.
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Yes Awaken when i read your story i understand you a lot better.
Iam for freedom and respect, respect is the only rule we need, from that come all right things when its gives room for personal freedom and choice!
And about the beach story..many ppl still find that others have to behave as their cultural inheritance and background demands it.
Many ppl are not yet individuals that think and explore life for themselves but are colective programmed sheep. Fear is stronger then interest in life it self for most of those.

Evangel that is a really long story..takes 20 years.
when i got time in the weekend i write it down here for you!

I certainly believe in respecting others. But that is a pretty wide statement... Everyone draws the line somewhere when it comes to respecting others views and beliefs.

Respect, tolerance, acceptance, and agreement can be very different things. I don't think anyone should feel that they have to remain silent or stifle or much less compromise their own beliefs because the majority has taken an attitude of "tolerance" (which is often equated with "respect") of actions or moral stances that they do not respect.

Originally posted by LucidApple

Iam for freedom and respect, respect is the only rule we need, from that come all right things when its gives room for personal freedom and choice!

You basically quoted my character. I'd say you know me very well

An interesting quote I heard in a show about Nikola Tesla:
"The fish rots from the head down."

People think that if we didn't 'control' what other people do, we would have chaos in society.
But could it not be said that if we focus less on legal/social/moral boundaries, that people would learn to have an individual sense of responsibility, for themselves, and for others? People don't hurt other people just because The Man isn't watching them 24/7. It's because of the nature of how they perceive the world. If people can understand the emotions of others, and themselves, it isn't that difficult to make responsible decisions, and we're just kind of being denied that opportunity with the current system. We're told we need protection from the outside world, and so, in effect, we DO need it. The head of the fish needs to set an example in order to change this. But the call of money is apparently too strong for the powers-that-be. They're being selfish at the expense of world harmony.

I guess, to try to salvage this post and bring it back on-topic, we need to recognize peoples' beliefs, because it is what keeps them sane and happy, and gives us all a sense of responsibility for what we believe in. In effect, the question of God's existence is irrelevant once one has made the decision whether or not to believe. Belief in God brings positive thoughts and feelings to some people, and denial of God brings those same feelings to others. It's not a matter of getting into heaven after this life, it's a matter of creating one here. Harmony on earth may as well be heaven. Period.

I'd say I wonder about (G/g)od, religion, and philosophy at least once an hour, everyday. A big part of my everyday thought involves, not necessarily following, but pursuing knowledge in such aspects.